We do the 90 to get the correct bitterness from the 10ml of hop extract. You could try for 60 and compensate with extract volume, but it may not be accurate to the clone. There is a hopjizz calculator on brewbrothers' website.
Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
- Thread starter theveganbrewer
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
We do the 90 to get the correct bitterness from the 10ml of hop extract. You could try for 60 and compensate with extract volume, but it may not be accurate to the clone. There is a hopjizz calculator on brewbrothers' website.
Thanks for the recipe. I brewed a modified version of V4 scaled for my system and anticipated losses. I subbed out Crisp MO for the base and carabelge for the caramalt because the LHBS doesn't carry any British crystal malts. I am using all leaf hops (besides the hopshots) and didn't have any Amarillo on hand so I subbed Cascade there.
Type: All Grain
Date: 10/5/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Brewer: RPK
Boil Size: 9.16 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Target Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.0 gal
Mash Schedule: 149F (75m), ramp and hold at 161F (15m), mashout 168F
Batch sparged.
Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG (6 gallons)
Fermentation: 62F
Yeast: Green Mountains Ale (Conan) (Yeast Geek #001)
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.1 %
1 lbs Carabelge (Weyermann) (17.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.2 %
1 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 6.2 %
12.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4 4.6 %
10 mL Hop Shot [2x] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 92.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 4.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
Here's a few pictures of the hop additions. I portioned out the dry hops and vacuum sealed them for later.
After draining the kettle, the leaf hops had soaked up a lot of wort so I piled most of them in the immersion chiller and gave them some gentle pressing (improvised hop press).
This is fermenting right along but I was wondering how others have added the dry hop additions. Are you guys adding the first dry hop to the primary and then racking onto the second dry hop after a week or just adding all to the primary over time?
Type: All Grain
Date: 10/5/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Brewer: RPK
Boil Size: 9.16 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Target Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.0 gal
Mash Schedule: 149F (75m), ramp and hold at 161F (15m), mashout 168F
Batch sparged.
Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG (6 gallons)
Fermentation: 62F
Yeast: Green Mountains Ale (Conan) (Yeast Geek #001)
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs 8.0 oz Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.1 %
1 lbs Carabelge (Weyermann) (17.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.2 %
1 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 6.2 %
12.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4 4.6 %
10 mL Hop Shot [2x] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 92.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 4.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Apollo [19.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
Here's a few pictures of the hop additions. I portioned out the dry hops and vacuum sealed them for later.
After draining the kettle, the leaf hops had soaked up a lot of wort so I piled most of them in the immersion chiller and gave them some gentle pressing (improvised hop press).
This is fermenting right along but I was wondering how others have added the dry hop additions. Are you guys adding the first dry hop to the primary and then racking onto the second dry hop after a week or just adding all to the primary over time?
doublehaul
Well-Known Member
Well, I went for 60, and ended with 6 gallons. My pre-boil was 1.059, so I am calcluating I got 93.7 IBU, where with a 90 min boil down to say 5.5 gallons I would have gotten around 110 IBUS. Hopefully this doesn't make too big of difference.
The OP says he isn't brewing anymore, but one of his last posts addressed the way I plan on doing it next week.
I'll most likely do a single dry hop with pellets, or if I do split the dry hop, the 2nd round will be in the serving keg.
I brewed this yesterday. I did a 6 gallon batch, so I used 15lbs pearl, 1lbs each of white wheat and caramalt. I also did 12ML of hopshot and all the rest of the hops were scaled appropriately to v4. I mashed at 150F and got 1.074 OG. I pitched a healthy starter of Gigayeast Vermont Ale GY054 (which I think is Conan). I saw activity in less than 6 hours and it is chugging away at 63F. When do most of you start dry hopping? I am planning on 2 stages over 8 days with the hops evenly split between 8 and 4 days.
hopgoblin4
Member
I always do 1st dry hop in primary. Rack over onto 2nd addition. For recipes with 3, I'll do in the last step in the keg.
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
You're supposed to leave the first stage in while doing the second.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
m3n00b said:
I think it's okay to rack off of the first stage. There was an interview about dry hopping with vinnie cilurzo at Russian River a couple of years back and leaving the dry hops in longer than a few days didn't seem to increase the character. Also, some people say their beer gets vegetal if its on the hops too long. With that said, I harvest my yeast, so I never hop in primary.
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
I'm curious why there are no 20,15 or 10 min hop additions here? Do the 5 and 0 minute additions add flavor too?
of course, why wouldn't they?
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
I was just thinking about this chart:
My clone has a ton of flavor and didn't do anything but 60/5/0 additions.
I was just thinking about this chart:
My clone has a ton of flavor and didn't do anything but 60/5/0 additions.
I am pretty sure when that chart was created long whirlpool/hopstands were not taken into consideration.
but it looks so science-y!
Actually, the information came from John the Alchemist by way of theveganbrewer: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/heady-topper-310445/index21.html#post4622345
Though Whirlpools and hop stands are not at boiling temps so that graph is still relevantish. FWH though...
midfielder5
Well-Known Member
The chart is not necessarily wrong: I don't think it is being read correctly. The chart does not say zero % contribution to flavor when hops are boiled at 5 and then 0. It says 10%.
Given the amount of hops in the beer at those times (a lot!), it makes sense you are tasting flavor contributions in the final product.
Given the amount of hops in the beer at those times (a lot!), it makes sense you are tasting flavor contributions in the final product.
The point is that this is a clone thread, and that's the way the brewery supposedly does it.
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
Right. Drinking mine right now and it has a ton of flavor....taking forever to carb though.
Finally transferred to keg, it smells like heaven. Heaven.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
m3n00b said:
See the thread on hop bursting. Other well known beers do this and it gets you a ton of flavor and aroma, as well as IBU not included in the calculations. Another good example of a hop bursted beer is the Stone Enjoy By.
I've done IPA's both ways, and have come to the conclusion through my own experience that additions between 30 - 5 minutes are pretty much just a waste of hops.
I get *SO* much more flavor/aroma through a combination of long hot/cool whirlpooling that I have now just resorted to adding a bittering charge at the start of the boil and the bulk of my hops at flame out for a hot whirlpool (> 185F) for more bittering/flavor and another dose as I begin my final cooldown to pitching temps, once the wort is below 175F (to prevent loss of low flash-point essential oils).
I just made an APA this way, and it is so pungent out of the primary fermentor that you would swear it has been dry-hopped.
I get *SO* much more flavor/aroma through a combination of long hot/cool whirlpooling that I have now just resorted to adding a bittering charge at the start of the boil and the bulk of my hops at flame out for a hot whirlpool (> 185F) for more bittering/flavor and another dose as I begin my final cooldown to pitching temps, once the wort is below 175F (to prevent loss of low flash-point essential oils).
I just made an APA this way, and it is so pungent out of the primary fermentor that you would swear it has been dry-hopped.
Ditto. I just made an APA that had a fwh, moderate addition at 5 min, and a huge addition as a hop steep at 180F. So much flavor and aroma.
gcdowd
Well-Known Member
Do you also dry hop after fermentation or is the whirlpool enough?
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
This is probably how I'll go about my hop forward brews from now on.
Petekiteworld
Well-Known Member
Hop steep is the ultimate technique for hop lovers
^unless you have a hopback 
Depends on what I'm going for. For APA's where I want some balance, the whirlpool hops can be more than enough. For an IPA, I will usually dry hop once with 1-2oz's to kick it up a notch. If I'm going for something like Heady, a double dry hop is mandatory.
Keep in mind that like HT and other great DIPA's, I subscribe to the school of thought that the beer should be very dry and the malt should be firmly in the background. The beer should taste like a glass of hops. I find this technique gets me there, whereas with many published recipes I wasted several ounces of hops adding at 20, 15, 10, and even 5 minutes, which resulted in a faintly hoppy beer out of the fermentor. I had to dry hop the **** out of it just to approach what is acceptable for a DIPA.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
g-star said:
With that said, this type of hopping will not turn out a Ruination Ale by any means. It is highly bitter, but in a soft way whereas Ruination is aggressively and harshly bitter. That's what hop bursting brings to the table.
I'm estimating my 3 step starter gave me between 80-100 billion cells, so that would mean the 100ml of HT I used had 500 million-1 billion cells. The wort I decanted off it had that Belgian smell, although the temperature may have gone up to 75* at some point. I made another 2 L of 1.036 OG wort with some slightly acidic water so that should be able to ramp it up to the 200 billion cells I need to brew 3 gallons while still allowing me to save 25-60 billion cells for future use.
hopgoblin4
Member
Yep. I do what Vinnie recommends. Is he's wrong? Doubt it. Didn't someone mention, 80 pages back or so, of a Oregon University study stating the majority of dry hop utilization comes in the first few hours of contact? Getting the beer off the yeast cake is pretty common among brewers I follow too.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
hopgoblin4 said:
Not wrong, but I haven't seen him put out out a hop bursted IPA, so just different. He does make a lot of really, really good beer though. One of the most solid and overall good lineups I've ever tasted. Even the ones I didn't like were crafted wonderfully, I just didn't care for the styles.
hopgoblin4
Member
I see your point! Agreed. Really great beer from R.R.
m3n00b
Well-Known Member
Starting to carbonate now after 10 days in the bottle. What an amazing beer. Making this next for sure. Its not going to last. Best IPA I've ever tasted.
brewski09
Well-Known Member
So, I'm wondering with all these late hopped beers hitting the market, has anyone seen how they change over the course of a couple of weeks? My homebrews need about 3-4 weeks to really hit a sweet spot (hops/grains all meld together like a good soup that gets better if you let it sit overnight).
I guess my question is, ha anyone tried this beer fresh and then over the course of a few weeks to see if it changes?
I guess my question is, ha anyone tried this beer fresh and then over the course of a few weeks to see if it changes?
Good example is the Stone Enjoy By.. IPA Series. It's definitely meant to be had immediately. I've had bottles from the same batch that tasted remarkably different at just 2 weeks apart. The later the hop, the faster the aroma vanishes, it seems. Stone realizes this and puts a date in the name.
NuclearRich
Well-Known Member
I had an enjoy by 9/13/13 just this weekend. Still super high quality delicious in your face ipa. I also have some HT that is months old and still drinks phenomenally. My own batch of this clone is the same way. Granted, it is not quite as super fresh and aromatic as day one, but it is still great beer.
Similar threads
