Headache from cider

[abdominousabel]

So my first batch of cider was delicious-ish BUT i didn't know how dry it would go. OG 1.060 FG 0.9 so thats about 21% alcohol. I drank a small glass and instantly got a head ache, my girlfriend also got a headache. We both had my wine before, that was about 12%. Is it the alcohol content? Is it because since the alcohol level is so high so is the by products?

I then went and drank a 12oz bottle. I just find it strange that such little about gave me such a horrible headache the rest of the night

Oh and i also used corn sugar to spike my OG

Any ideas?
Anyone else get a head ache?

 

[bmd2k1]

So my first batch of cider was delicious-ish BUT i didn't know how dry it would go. OG 1.060 FG 0.9 so thats about 21% alcohol. I drank a small glass and instantly got a head ache, my girlfriend also got a headache. We both had my wine before, that was about 12%. Is it the alcohol content? Is it because since the alcohol level is so high so is the by products?

I then went and drank a 12oz bottle. I just find it strange that such little about gave me such a horrible headache the rest of the night

Oh and i also used corn sugar to spike my OG

Any ideas?
Anyone else get a head ache?

That's only about 9.17%

(OG-FG)*131=ABV


Did ya add any sulfites? Those tend to give me a headache with some wines.

So far I haven't added any chemicals to my ciders.....I just cold crash & rack.

 

[abdominousabel]

That's only about 9.17%

(OG-FG)*131=ABV

That calculation is .16*131= 20.96%

What are sulfites? In this context? What is the purpose of it?

I only added sugar before fermentation and to bottle condition.

I racked a 6pack and drank the rest because it was only about 6oz so i didn't wanna toss it. I woke up with a headache. This time I drank it and got an instant headache.

I'll try it again with a 9% abv and hope it was just that, because it was too good to just avoid lol

 

[bmd2k1]

That calculation is .16*131= 20.96%

What are sulfites? In this context? What is the purpose of it?

I only added sugar before fermentation and to bottle condition.

I racked a 6pack and drank the rest because it was only about 6oz so i didn't wanna toss it. I woke up with a headache. This time I drank it and got an instant headache.

I'll try it again with a 9% abv and hope it was just that, because it was too good to just avoid lol

U had 1.06 in ur original post

Some add sulfites to help stop fermentation...I do not.

 

[abdominousabel]

U had 1.06 in ur original post

I'm just here to learn, I'm not trying to be a jerk in any way. I just want to refine my calculations and techniques.

1.060-0.9 = 0.16 then multiply 131 correct?

*Side note* how to you make your cider? fresh apples? I bought the organic apple juice in a glass jug.

 

[abdominousabel]

I double sent oops. *IDK HOW TO DELETE REPLIES*

 

[bmd2k1]

I'm just here to learn, I'm not trying to be a jerk in any way. I just want to refine my calculations and techniques.

1.060-0.9 = 0.16 then multiply 131 correct?

*Side note* how to you make your cider? fresh apples? I bought the organic apple juice in a glass jug.

....my bad....I read it as .99 .... Not .90

So it was in fact over 20% ABV. [emoji43]

What yeast did ya use...many can't tolerate that high alcohol content.

 

[MarkKF]

I’ve never had anything get below 0.990
Is it even possible

 

[bigplunkett]

Same . Probly fuesel alcohol it can give head aches

 

[abdominousabel]

....my bad....I read it as .99 .... Not .90

So it was in fact over 20% ABV. [emoji43]

What yeast did ya use...many can't tolerate that high alcohol content.

.-. I read the hydrometer wrong. It was probably 0.99

I’m glad that was clarified thank you!

 

[abdominousabel]

I’ve never had anything get below 0.990
Is it even possible

I read the hydrometer wrong or wrote it down wrong.
But theoretically ethanol SG is 0.787 so through distilling maybe it’s possible lol.
This was my error
I used EC-1118 btw

 

[johnnyseko]

How much sugar do you have to add for that??! Nvm headaches, you could go blind. ha j/k

 

[johnnyseko]

But theoretically ethanol SG is 0.787 so through distilling maybe it’s possible lol.

Oh yeah you could make Apple Jack - freeze distill. I wish I had a bigger freezer....

 

[Iseneye]

How did you get 21% cider? Did you use apple concentrate or massive amounts of sugar? What yeast did you use to get a FG of 0.9? Have you checked hydrometer against water?

I'm surprised a 21% cider tasted nice.

 

[abdominousabel]

How did you get 21% cider? Did you use apple concentrate or massive amounts of sugar? What yeast did you use to get a FG of 0.9? Have you checked hydrometer against water?

I'm surprised a 21% cider tasted nice.

I either read the hydrometer wrong or wrote down my FG wrong. My FG was more likely to have been 0.990-0.99

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I am guessing the headaches were from fuesels. How fast did it ferment? At what temp? Faster ferments at higher temps great lots of fuesels, and they give me headaches. Or at least that is what I have read, and my own experience seems to back that up.

You want slow ferment, esp. if you are going high ABV%. I find that my ciders are much better when they ferment out over 3-4 weeks than the ones that are done in 10-12 days.

I did some cider outside last fall that took 2 months to finish primary fermentation. It was great straight out of the jug.

 

[abdominousabel]

I am guessing the headaches were from fuesels. How fast did it ferment? At what temp? Faster ferments at higher temps great lots of fuesels, and they give me headaches. Or at least that is what I have read, and my own experience seems to back that up.

The batch was about 0.75Gal and fermentation took about 10 days I’d say? It was 73 degrees F +/- 2 deg
I think it was because that week in SoCal it was high 80s then low 70s outside

 

[abdominousabel]

I made a mango juice contraption thing, exact same process as the cider. I tried it today and.... I just don't like these fruit juice based fermentations. Should I just stick to beer or should I try to refine this?

 

[bernardsmith]

Kinda leaping to conclusions aren't we? The headaches may have nothing to do with the cider and drinking a sip of anything that is not toxic is very unlikely to cause any headache such that one could reasonably imagine that a sip might cause "instant" pain. How much wine did you drink before you took the cider? What else might you have been doing that could have caused a head ache? Did you perhaps eat something that had spoiled earlier in the day?
Fusels can give you a hangover but instant headaches seem more than a little surprising. It takes time for most things to affect you unless as I say they are inherently toxic and shut down key body processes such as breathing.

 

[gunhaus]

I am still confused by the math? 1.060 - .99 = .07 then .07x131=9.17% not 20% . I hope my calculator is not broken! My everyday cider, starts life at 1.060, and generally goes down to .998 give or take. I leave it dry, and i back sweeten a bit for my wife and son who like it a bit sweeter. Either way, I am quite sure it is not a 20% concoction. I think Bernard is spot on, I can't think of what would be in a basic cider that would cause an instant headache, and would be inclined to think it acted more like a "trigger" that reacted with some other environmental cause. Even if alcohol content were high that alone is not a headache creator. I make a type of "pub cider" that is in the 14-15% range - and I have had batches reach 18%. I have also done the apple jack thing with them that really bumped up ABV and none of them triggered an instant headache. (Time delayed headache on the other hand . . . . ) Have you drank it more than once and did it do the same thing repeatedly? I do not have any medical proof to back it up - but on a couple of occasions, on particularly hot days, when i was more than a bit dehydrated an ice cold favorite beer triggered a pretty instant headache. Not brain freeze mind you, but a real temple thumper. A couple of glasses of water and a little time for it to work and it subsided. I always wondered if being dehydrated and pouring alcohol on it did the deed? As i say it was only a couple times, and re-hydrating cleared it up without any pills.

 

[abdominousabel]

I am still confused by the math? 1.060 - .99 = .07 then .07x131=9.17% not 20% . I hope my calculator is not broken! My everyday cider, starts life at 1.060, and generally goes down to .998 give or take. I leave it dry, and i back sweeten a bit for my wife and son who like it a bit sweeter. Either way, I am quite sure it is not a 20% concoction. I think Bernard is spot on, I can't think of what would be in a basic cider that would cause an instant headache, and would be inclined to think it acted more like a "trigger" that reacted with some other environmental cause. Even if alcohol content were high that alone is not a headache creator. I make a type of "pub cider" that is in the 14-15% range - and I have had batches reach 18%. I have also done the apple jack thing with them that really bumped up ABV and none of them triggered an instant headache. (Time delayed headache on the other hand . . . . ) Have you drank it more than once and did it do the same thing repeatedly? I do not have any medical proof to back it up - but on a couple of occasions, on particularly hot days, when i was more than a bit dehydrated an ice cold favorite beer triggered a pretty instant headache. Not brain freeze mind you, but a real temple thumper. A couple of glasses of water and a little time for it to work and it subsided. I always wondered if being dehydrated and pouring alcohol on it did the deed? As i say it was only a couple times, and re-hydrating cleared it up without any pills.

Yeah I did a rookie mistake. For some reason i wrote down my FG to be 0.9 but in reality is was more likely to be 0.999 or 0.998. I caught that error and know its not 20% its about 8%. I drank the cider when I racked it and I woke up with a head ache. I drank it again when it was carbonated and first my girlfriend got a head ache about an hour after trying it but went away with ibuprofen, I on the other hand have about 24 fl oz and then later that night about 3 hours later had a headache and got extremely nauseous. I don't want to blame the cider because it's my creation so I've been blaming the cheese, meat, and cracker tray for the nausea but i haven't found the culprit for the head ache and I'm kind of reluctant to drink the rest of my batch or any other fruit fermentation contraption I've made.

 

[johnnyseko]

This is why I don't add sugar to my ciders anymore. I made some jet fuel fusel cider for my first batches and the hangover was painful. I've since just used unfiltered store or orchard juice, no added sugar and will usually try to keep the ferment temps down as low as I can.

Hydrometers are a PIA to read. Keep experimenting. I'm on batch....(gallon) 36....they get better each time. Still not perfect yet. The trials are what make it fun. I cannot wait for my hopped cider to be ready in a few weeks!!

 

[MarkKF]

The best advice I ever got about hydrometer reading is to fill the test tube til it overflows with the hydrometer in it. No foam, no bubbles and easy to read.

 

[LittleRiver]

...drinking a sip of anything that is not toxic is very unlikely to cause any headache such that one could reasonably imagine that a sip might cause "instant" pain....

From my experience that's too broad of a statement. The amount of sulfites in most any bottle of wine will give me joint pain. It happens immediately, after the first sips.
I have a similar reaction to many commercial beers. It's one of the reasons I homebrew (the other reasons are that it's fun, and the beer is better).

 

[bernardsmith]

Possibly, yes.
But is it only the sulfites in alcohol that gives you pain? What about the sulfites in dried fruit? Or the sulfites used to preserve many other store bought prepared foods?

 

[LittleRiver]

...is it only the sulfites in alcohol that gives you pain? What about the sulfites in dried fruit? Or the sulfites used to preserve many other store bought prepared foods?

I've narrowed it down to the sulfites, so I avoid them whenever and wherever possible. You are correct, they are used in lots of places so it's difficult to completely eliminate them.

Concentration matters. I can use a 1/4 tablet of Campden in a 5gal batch of beer and not have a problem. But if I take a few sips of a commercial wine my joints will hurt right away.