Grinding rice

[mengtx]

Hello-

Attempting to grind rice as I've found a research paper, indicating that even fully cooked rice will not convert effectively in mash, must be ground to about 2mm length (1/3 of what long grain is) before pre-cooking and then mashing.

As long and as I've brewed and as much as I brew-sad to say all I have for a mill is a Corona. This has not worked effectively on the rice. Second pass in a food processor-still only yields about 50% down to shorter length.

Any thoughts beyond a new expensive grain mill?

 

[bleme]

It doesn't make any sense why it would have to be milled before it can be cooked. I'd just cook it, then food process, then mash. Or buy flaked rice. Or rice cereal.

 

[Yooper]

It doesn't make any sense why it would have to be milled before it can be cooked. I'd just cook it, then food process, then mash. Or buy flaked rice. Or rice cereal.

Yes, this. Cook the rice, and then do a cereal mash or put it in the mash. I like using Minute Rice, so I don't have to cook it or do a cereal mash. I have used rice in quite a few cream ales, and everything converted fine. If you have enough base malt with enough diastatic power, cooked rice will convert.

 

[bracconiere]

when i was doing rice beer, i just dumped the rice in a pot with water....put it in the oven at i forget what temp, like 180f or something overnight...added my amylase converted just fine whole....

 

[mengtx]

Yep, I've done all that before. As mentioned, I've had inconsistent or poor conversion using (normal long grain) cooked rice added to mash and seen others with the same issue as well as poor conversion with minute rice-with minute rice clearly not gelatinizing during a mash. This is all using sufficient base malt/the right types. I've found info that reducing the grain size by grinding beforehand, similar to commercial brewing rice, increases conversion. This is the info:

https://www.intechopen.com/books/advances-in-international-rice-research/the-use-of-rice-in-brewing
One specific passage of note:

The selection of suitable grades is also important, rice liquefies more easily the fine the particle grist is and particles less than 2 mm are considered adequate [6].


Normal rice is about 6-7mm in length. Brewers' rice used for commercial purposes is pre-milled to about half a normal grain length before they process it any further, so grinding before cooking appears to be the norm for conversion.

Food processing after won't be as beneficial as the whole grain may not have cooked through-which is the idea behind grinding it first, to insure full cooking and better conversion. Flaked rice is a bit of a ripoff @ 4x the price of normal rice. Thus, pre-grinding looks like the best option. Rice is turning out to be...harder than expected though.

 

[bracconiere]

Yep, I've done all that before. As mentioned

can't help then

Rice is turning out to be...harder than expected though.

stewing was easy for me.....the sparge was a ***** though.....lol

 

[mengtx]

I've started using rice hulls with flaked items for sparge issues and will probably use them with this. It appears to have helped but I'm a bit concerned-getting some 'hay' like aromas off of it when it goes in to the mash that I'm a bit concerned about. First two batches I did this with are still fermenting. Never used them before but was beginning to have some issues so thought I would try it.

 

[bracconiere]

you said you've tried everything before...but if you're having effec issues, i'd just say throw the rice in the oven with your strike water at 180-190f or so overnight to really gel the rice, let it cool to strike temp and then add your malt....that's what always worked for me, and i didn't mill the rice at all....

what percent of rice are you using?

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I'm a bit concerned-getting some 'hay' like aromas off of it when it goes in to the mash[...]

That doesn't happen...

Cheers!

 

[mengtx]

In terms of rice hulls giving off some flavor funk despite the smell?

 

[bracconiere]

In terms of rice hulls giving off some flavor funk despite the smell?

you said you're cheap, where are you getting your hulls? i got mine in 50lb bales from the garden shop, and they did have a slight hayish taste to them, but i was adding a bucket full of them to a batch.....

 

[madscientist451]

I've used medium grain rice, boiled and then mashed with 6-row, no grinding it converts fine.
Your results may vary

 

[day_trippr]

Curious about that "smell" thing. There was a thread a month or so back claiming rice hulls had an unpleasant aroma. I had a brew day and took special care to note the rice hull aroma before soaking, during soaking, after draining, and it smelled pleasantly grainy to me every time.

In any case, my meaning was rice hulls don't cause flavor issues, at least in my experience. I use between 1/2 and a full pound of hulls depending on wheat/oat percentage of the grist (50% wheat gets the full pound) doing 10 gallon batches. I've never had a hay note on any brew, ever, including the ones that used hulls...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Curious about that "smell" thing. There was a thread a month or so back claiming rice hulls had an unpleasant aroma. I had a brew day and took special care to note the rice hull aroma before soaking, during soaking, after draining, and it smelled pleasantly grainy to me every time.

In any case, my meaning was rice hulls don't cause flavor issues, at least in my experience. I use between 1/2 and a full pound of hulls depending on wheat/oat percentage of the grist (50% wheat gets the full pound) doing 10 gallon batches. I've never had a hay note on any brew, ever, including the ones that used hulls...

Cheers!

when i was brewing 100% rice beer, i used probably about 5lb's of hulls....almost 50/50 by volume with the rice...and the flavor was still subtle....of course i didn't soak them either.

 

[mengtx]

Eek. I used full lb hulls on 5 gallon batches. I had seen a thread on them giving some funky flavor as well, but saw it after I did the two batches. The second batch was wheat beer, and the smell at the airlock is...not what I've experienced before, but not in the barnyard way.