Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[hunter_le five]

So I ended up making an abomination. 2 lbs light malt extract, 2 lbs amber, 2 oz smoked malt, 4 oz caramel L20 6 oz L60, 2 oz flaked wheat, .3 crystal at 30, .3 oz crystal at 15 and another .3 at 2 minutes. Added 2 cans of libby's pumpkin at flame out. cinnamon and cloves added. The wort is in the bucket with some safale 05. It was 1.1 s.g. I'm bout to add the cider tonight. Ferment is def sluggish. I'm thinking the dilution with the cider should start it up again.

At what point in the boil did you do your kitchen sink addition?

 

[smAllGrain]

So I tried to search for an answer in this thread but am not finding what I am looking for. Just bottled my first graff and it is pretty tart.... Does this mellow out? If not, no big deal, I will just add some apple juice each time I drink it.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[chasemandingo]

Kitchen sink added!

 

[lorvan]

Ok, total newb question here... I've done a bunch of all grain beers, but never a cider before. I made this with 1 gal cider, 1gal Apple juice, 1 gal ag wort. The only thing is that I didnt realize I had to be careful with the cider, and after a slow start fermenting, I found out it has potassium sorbate in it (max .1%). I pitched tons of yeast, and there is some fermentation happening, but it's not rigorous. Is this going to be a bust? I would hate to dump it...

 

[NickAus]

I made this, bottled it, then went away on holidays. This is the best cider I've ever made, it's not too dry and the hops and malt balance nicely. I just used store bought juice and it is still fantastic. Thanks for posting the recipe, I'm going to do a big batch of this next time for kegging.

 

[BrewerBear]

Ok, total newb question here... I've done a bunch of all grain beers, but never a cider before. I made this with 1 gal cider, 1gal Apple juice, 1 gal ag wort. The only thing is that I didnt realize I had to be careful with the cider, and after a slow start fermenting, I found out it has potassium sorbate in it (max .1%). I pitched tons of yeast, and there is some fermentation happening, but it's not rigorous. Is this going to be a bust? I would hate to dump it...

I would let it ride and see. No point in being worried.

 

[sportpak]

I may go "crazy" next time and add a couple oz of honey malt. Anyone tried that?

 

[redzeker]

So I tried to search for an answer in this thread but am not finding what I am looking for. Just bottled my first graff and it is pretty tart.... Does this mellow out? If not, no big deal, I will just add some apple juice each time I drink it.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I just opened my first bottle after 2 weeks of conditioning; it's not overly tart, but I didn't taste it at bottling, so I don't know where it was coming from.

I don't think to I have the skills to provide a proper description, but I'd just call it a little "young". I'm going to give mine at least another week (and probably two) before I try it again.

I realize I didn't really answer your question. It's my first batch, so I only have this one to go on. Seems to me that it should condition for a month before you really judge it, though.

 

[brewski09]

The yeast may be a little stressed or just in process still. If the tart tastes like a green apple and developed after bottling I would expect this to go away once the yeast is done with cleanup. Look up acetaldehyde in a brewing description and see if the descriptors match what you are perceiving.


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[JonLaw]

OK.. I made a 5g batch of this three weeks ago and it's still fermenting. Should I be concerned? Also this is my first cider. It's made just as the original recipe, but I pitched 2 packages of US 05.

 

[JonLaw]

Bump... anyone???

 

[brewski09]

It's probably just off gassing. Check your gravity and see what it is. Then check a day or two later and see if it's still stable. As the cider warms the co2 is forced out of solution.


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[hunter_le five]

OK.. I made a 5g batch of this three weeks ago and it's still fermenting. Should I be concerned? Also this is my first cider. It's made just as the original recipe, but I pitched 2 packages of US 05.

Have you taken any gravity readings to verify that it's actually still fermenting?

FWIW, my graff batches are usually completely finished in 1-2 weeks, but I have had other ciders take well over a month before.

 

[redzeker]

OK.. I made a 5g batch of this three weeks ago and it's still fermenting. Should I be concerned? Also this is my first cider. It's made just as the original recipe, but I pitched 2 packages of US 05.

I agree with the others. A gravity reading will tell you whether it's done or not.

 

[lorvan]

I've learned to trust only the hydro readings. I'm surprised by mine... I posted earlier that I was worried because the cider I used has k-sorbate in it, and there was little sign of fermentation. I over pitched the yeast by a lot even. But hydro readings are telling me that it's fermenting... I'm down to 1.006 and I don't think it's done yet. Tastes great so far... I Was planning on back sweetening with blueberry juice but I dont think I need to. Looking forward to this one!

 

[bukbonzai]

Finished my first Graf recently. And I have to say, I love it.
I modified the recipe slightly. Used fresh pressed cider (3 gallons) added a bit more of the Chocolate Wheat. It is still a bit young, not quite carbed, but it is so darn good.
I named it Zombie Blood, since it is so thick it is one step from coagulated.

 

[JonLaw]

I pulled a hydrometer 1.003

 

[brewski09]

I pulled a hydrometer 1.003

Okay. It could still ferment dryer depending on a number of factors but I think it should be done. Check it again in a day or two to confirm with an unchanged gravity reading.


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[JonLaw]

Is it possible to back Sweeten and bottle condition?

 

[graycobra]

You could back sweeten, but I personally wouldn't. The malt backbone is enough IMO. If you do, make sure you stabilize the yeast.

I have a batch of Graff bottle conditioning right now, waiting for the tart bite to balance out with the level of bitterness.

 

[JonLaw]

So I should bottle it wait?

Maybe cider is just not for me. However I do like some of the store bought ones.

 

[hopbrad]

So I should bottle it wait?

Maybe cider is just not for me. However I do like some of the store bought ones.

its done. bottle, wait a month and itll be decent.
2-3+ months and then it starts getting good.
im not huge into ciders either but i like to have something else on hand.

 

[hunter_le five]

So I should bottle it wait?

Maybe cider is just not for me. However I do like some of the store bought ones.

If the FG has stabilized, I would add priming sugar and bottle it.

To me me Graff is well balanced as-is and requires no back sweetening - that's kind of the point of the recipe, really. It's not too dry, not too sweet. Not too tart. Not too thin.

If you prefer your ciders to be very sweet, then maybe you will want to back-sweeten. But I would try the original recipe as-is before making changes to it. It really is very good.

 

[JoeLowPro]

Just put my second batch of Brandan O's Graff in to the fermentation chamber.
First batch was a hit. 5 gallons disappeared really fast!

This time around, and because of the holiday season, I through a couple of tbsp of Mulling Spice in to the grain bag to steep with the C60 and torrified wheat. Hoping to get a little bit of the mulled cider taste but I went light cause I didn't want to overshoot my mark.

 

[HK823]

Hello.
This is my first post, and my first brew from a recipe sourced from homebrewtalk.

Cooked up a 1 gallon batch with 1/3 organic pear juice (because I had it) and 2/3 store bought apple juice. Otherwise with Crystal 150L, Challenger hops, amber DME, and raisin based nutrient, Safale S-04.
OG 1.060

For the wort it ended up very thick and syrupy, and the hops clogged my filter so had to dump it all of it in. In hindsight I probably should have added some more water during the boil.

 

[lorvan]

1/3 all grain wort + 1/3 Apple cider + 1/3 Apple juice = @$)?!:%#* DELICIOUS.

thanks for the recipe!

 

[iamperplexed]

I'm 3 weeks in, sitting at 1.008 (down from 1.060). Clearing nicely and smells amazing. The sample is fairly tart. I used store brand, 100% juice from concentrate so it sounds like that might explain the tartness. Was going to bottle this one since kegs are full. It's drinkable now but hoping it will mellow a bit.

 

[Strut]

I'm a little over a week into my first batch, and she is still slowly chugging along, fermenting at 64*F. I can't wait!

I kept to the original recipe exactly, except for using 2oz. carapils instead of the wheat, and used 120L since I went with cheap juice with vitamin C for my test drive.

S-05 yeast
0.5oz US Fuggle 5.2%

Thanks for the recipe!

 

[trd_yota]

Just brewed up my first 5 gallons of this and its in the fermentor bubbling away only thing is that im getting some banana smell from the airlock its been 3 days should I be worried. Ambient temp is 66 degrees and its sitting in a water bath with some ice. Hopefully not something were I will have to toss. Because fresh cider aint cheap! Thanks for help!

 

[MInoobbrewer]

alright so I'm still pretty new to brewing and this was my first brew using more grain then malt but I followed it exactly, let it ferment about three weeks and just bottled it today. Plus used hard pressed cider instead of apple juice. had a couple chilled samples first and heres my results:
my ABV was 6.8% and it came out pretty cloudy but damn its good. lost about a half gallon cuz all the apple bits added to the trub and kept having to short myself on the bottling unless I wanted a bunch of bits in there. probably gonna try to filter it next time through some cheese cloth or something.
I will be taking it to thanksgiving since apple cider is pretty big in Michigan.
anyways was gonna try this again but use a 2 parts beer: 3 parts juice version next time. probably wont do the cider thing again cuz thats not clear to start with and was unfiltered. anyone try that? I've seen a few people talk about it but didn't see anyone post results.
Thanks for all your guyses expertise.

 

[hopbrad]

alright so I'm still pretty new to brewing and this was my first brew using more grain then malt but I followed it exactly, let it ferment about three weeks and just bottled it today. Plus used hard pressed cider instead of apple juice. had a couple chilled samples first and heres my results:
my ABV was 6.8% and it came out pretty cloudy but damn its good. lost about a half gallon cuz all the apple bits added to the trub and kept having to short myself on the bottling unless I wanted a bunch of bits in there. probably gonna try to filter it next time through some cheese cloth or something.
I will be taking it to thanksgiving since apple cider is pretty big in Michigan.
anyways was gonna try this again but use a 2 parts beer: 3 parts juice version next time. probably wont do the cider thing again cuz thats not clear to start with and was unfiltered. anyone try that? I've seen a few people talk about it but didn't see anyone post results.
Thanks for all your guyses expertise.

i was just gonna post something about this today. Ive brewed about 5-6 batches of this. my latest batch i used about a half lb more malt in the gallon of water.
It was my least favorite out of all the batches i made. It might be bc i use Motts apple juice and the flavor is so delicate that the extra malt overtook some of it. my theory was it would add more sweetness but its not the right kind of sweetness and in my opinion its just not balanced right.
i think my next try will be only a lb of Malt and sub in a lb of sugar.

I was also bottling a belgian golden when i bottled the above batch and blended 2 bottles. i havent opened one yet but may this weekend. ill post an update on this as well

 

[MInoobbrewer]

i was just gonna post something about this today. Ive brewed about 5-6 batches of this. my latest batch i used about a half lb more malt in the gallon of water.
It was my least favorite out of all the batches i made. It might be bc i use Motts apple juice and the flavor is so delicate that the extra malt overtook some of it. my theory was it would add more sweetness but its not the right kind of sweetness and in my opinion its just not balanced right.
i think my next try will be only a lb of Malt and sub in a lb of sugar.

I was also bottling a belgian golden when i bottled the above batch and blended 2 bottles. i havent opened one yet but may this weekend. ill post an update on this as well

I just made the same mistake with some Scottish ale. Added a pound and a half of malt to up the ABV but didn't change the hops and it was sickeningly sweet. Like the malt in the candy whoppers but no chocolate. Luckily it evened out after a month in the bottle.
Well I was gonna keep the recipe the same but times everything in the mash by 2. Then only use three gallons of AJ. Maybe times it by 2.5 and make it all even. But Brandon_O seems pretty adamant about not increasing the hops.

 

[MInoobbrewer]

Hopbrad-
I just made the same mistake with some Scottish ale. Added a pound and a half of malt to up the ABV but didn't change the hops and it was sickeningly sweet. Like the malt in the candy whoppers but no chocolate. Luckily it evened out after a month in the bottle.
Well I was gonna keep the recipe the same but times everything in the mash by 2. Then only use three gallons of AJ. Maybe times it by 2.5 and make it all even. But Brandon_O seems pretty adamant about not increasing the hops.

 

[Strut]

I'm 18 days in and still have a thick krausen I was hoping to get this into a keg at 21 days for cold conditioning.

 

[MInoobbrewer]

Mine definitely didn't do that. Maybe one week. My mandarin orange hefe did. Smelled real funky too. Currently aging it

 

[rpcvsam]

Is it necessary to use a carboy? I only have a primary fermenter available.

 

[jakeasaur]

Is it necessary to use a carboy? I only have a primary fermenter available.

I primary mine for 4 weeks. Turns out great every time

 

[Helly]

Tested my pumpkin Graff today. Quite tart. Gonna give it a little bit to clean and clear up. Jury is still out.

I also have a batch going with all fresh cider. Maybe it needs a little longer to mature but I didn't like it as much as with store bought 100% juice. Or maybe I'm weird. Anyway its aging right now since I still have the last 'regular' batch on tap.

In any event this is fun to experiment with and I know SWMBO and I enjoy the store bought juice version so I've pretty much got a dedicated cider tap at this point on the kegerator.


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[Strut]

I still have a thick krausen at 23 days. Almost no airlock activity though. Smells like funky krausen I'm pretty sure its the S-05 yeast and the temps in the low 60's.

I was waiting for the krausen to drop before bothering with gravity. I guess I'll take a gravity reading tonight, and over the next few day, to see what's up.

*edit*
Gravity was 1.009. Still a krausen, but it isn't as thick. I had the test sample and it was quite good!

 

[Strut]

I racked my batch into my kegerator. I can't wait to see how she tastes all carb'd up and cleared in a few weeks!