Got a welder, now the fun begins...

[GreenMonti]

How do you know when it's time to refill your argon bottle? My pressure gauge is basically bottomed out. I once started welding and forgot to open the valve, so I know it will melt the tungsten without argon... so do you weld till the tungsten melts, or do you go by the gauge?

I tacked up a brew stand this weekend... I'll start a thead when I get a chance to take some pictures.

Ed

Tricky question. IMO it depends on how much welding you have to do at the moment you look at the bottle, or.........if your approaching a weekend and the supply shop is closed.

Generally, when my needle just moves, I replace it. I don't want to ever run out of gas in the middle of a weld.

Also, I didn't get time to get this down yesterday. On the topic of welding the mesh. I like to leave it a little long all the way around so it will melt back and give me some filler. I'd say that about a 1/16" proud all around would be good enough. You can leave more if you would like.

How's your gas lens holding up? No holes in the screen right?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

When I bought the 125cf bottle I have, I got it at about half the cost of some of the going prices... I got if for $185 and most of the places in my area were $300+. There is really no place too close, so I really don't want to run out in the middle of something. I'm thinking of getting this one refilled and buying a second bottle... Same way I handle propane tanks.

GM - Gas Lens is holding up fine. I like the idea of leaving the mesh a little oversized. I think it will still be a bit of a bear, but that should help.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Mine's bigger ha ha and metric also!
My last couple 250 bottle purchases of argon and C25 in 2002
ran me $194 and $168 owner owned full out the door.
I can deal with a big bottle a son age 20 lifts vs my bad back
with longer times between refills and cheaper per cu/ft refills.
I hammered on ya Ed as well others to et the largest bottles.
I still have 975# in a 260 cu/ft helium bottle I paid $35 a court
ordered auction as well a the 215 cu/ft (?) oxy for $35.
Fun with party and 4' balloons with helium, later as spare Tig or Mig
gas bottles. The 150 nitrogen will become the stout mix gas.

 

[jiggs_casey]

sweet... I know absolutely nothing about welding. I saw a 120v welder of some sort at harbor freight last week and thought, "well, that might be fun to learn with!" Then I thought better of it as again, I know nothing about and although I learn better through trial and error, it might really piss the wife and kid off if either of them walk into the kitchen only to find his bicycle handlebars attached to the fridge.

Still, it might be fun to have!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Mine's bigger ha ha and metric also!
My last couple 250 bottle purchases of argon and C25 in 2002
ran me $194 and $168 owner owned full out the door.
I can deal with a big bottle a son age 20 lifts vs my bad back
with longer times between refills and cheaper per cu/ft refills.
I hammered on ya Ed as well others to et the largest bottles.
I still have 975# in a 260 cu/ft helium bottle I paid $35 a court
ordered auction as well a the 215 cu/ft (?) oxy for $35.
Fun with party and 4' balloons with helium, later as spare Tig or Mig
gas bottles. The 150 nitrogen will become the stout mix gas.

I called the place where I got my 125cf bottle to see what the options were. I told them I needed a refill and wsa considering another bottle. The next size up they have is a 337cf bottle. He told me he would credit the cost of the bottle I have if I wanted to trade it in on the larger one. I think I might get the 125 refilled AND get a 337cf... then I should be set for awhile.
I forgot to even ask what the price of the refill is for my 125, but he said it's $44 to refill the 337.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Dang Ed, skip the 250 go straight to 337, your refill for the 337 is way cheaper than a 250 in my area. Last refill was $94 last time as AirGas has
purchased all the LWS in my area then jacked up all the prices. Greedy crooks!
Give a 337 a hug and lift, them suckers are heavy.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Dang Ed, skip the 250 go straight to 337, your refill for the 337 is way cheaper than a 250 in my area. Last refill was $94 last time as AirGas has
purchased all the LWS in my area then jacked up all the prices. Greedy crooks!
Give a 337 a hug and lift, them suckers are heavy.

Have to do it just cause you said your's was bigger.

Not mine yet, but I think that's the way I'm gonna go. Now I just have to find a decent way to haul it in the back of my pickup without it rolling all over the place.

Ed

 

[GreenMonti]

Have to do it just cause you said your's was bigger.

Not mine yet, but I think that's the way I'm gonna go. Now I just have to find a decent way to haul it in the back of my pickup without it rolling all over the place.

Ed

A couple small pieces of good size angle iron attached by some flat bar and you'll have a simple and easy cradle to lay the bottle into. You could even wrap a ratchet strap around it to really lock it in there.

Kinda like this one. If I find the one I'm thinking of I post up the link.
http://www.industrialstoragedepot.c...as-cylinder-rack-holds-4-cylinders-p-136.html

Edit,
Another example of what I'm trying to say.
http://www.usasafety.com/gas-cylinder-wall-bracket-1-cylinder-p-28.html

 

[BrewBeemer]

Have to do it just cause you said your's was bigger.

Not mine yet, but I think that's the way I'm gonna go. Now I just have to find a decent way to haul it in the back of my pickup without it rolling all over the place.

Ed

http://www.airgas.com/content/details.aspx?id=7000000000234

That 300 bottle is heavy, 132# watch the back.
I set the bottle on top of the 3/4" rubber bed cover, bed side padded then the bottle tied off three bed stake pockets to one side with motorcycle tie downs straps. If three straps rated at 1,200# each all break the bottle is least my worries.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I made a craddle to lay the bottle on in the bed with some 2x4 scraps.
I'll strap the cylinder to the craddle, then I just have to worry about strapping it to keep it in the bottom of the bed.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I made a craddle to lay the bottle on in the bed with some 2x4 scraps.
I'll strap the cylinder to the craddle, then I just have to worry about strapping it to keep it in the bottom of the bed.

Ed

What the heck Ed, you practicing for the "Dukes of Hazard"?
Anti gravity works best with boobs.

 

[Berniep]

What the heck Ed, you practicing for the "Dukes of Hazard"?
Anti gravity works best with boobs.

Yeah. It's good to be prepared but so far gravity has proven pretty reliable

 

[Ohio-Ed]

What the heck Ed, you practicing for the "Dukes of Hazard"?
Anti gravity works best with boobs.

I thought I had mentioned that it is a bit out of the way for me to go to the welding supply shop. On the way there are a couple bridges out that I have to jump, one involves a 360 barrel roll.

I'm not "too worried" about the bottle coming out but I know thse things are suppose to be pretty well restrained. I will strap it to the craddle I made and then strap the craddle to the side of the bed. Because of the wheel well and the location of the tie down points in my bed, the craddle will be able to bounce. Maybe I'll just take the long way home and avoid the off roading.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I recall you have travel time to the gas supplier,your out in the sticks without a stick? JK.
Are automotive parts the same problem requiring a road trip?
I get it your on top of a mountain snowed in 8 months of the year, food must to be dropped in by C-130, whale oil lamps and animal furs now get outside and bag a Wooly Mammoth before they become extinct.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Just got a 55 cu ft argon tank for $69. Shipping is about $20 but I live within driving distance. USAWELD on ebay has them. I figured it was a good deal, since it's less than a 40cu ft. They'll fill it for $27. I figure that's good enuff for hobby work.

Anyone got favorite gloves? I recently got some of THESE GLOVES and they look awesome.

What about helmets? Just got one of THESE HELMETS Not too cheap, not too expensive. Actually made by Jackson and parts are available. You can get a NICE passive helmet for cheap nowadays, but I didn't want to screw up my joints by nodding the mask down. I'm still a rank beginner, but some oldtimers swear by a good passive helmet.

Mods: Should we turn the welding into a subforum? There's a LOT of interest and information on HBT as it relates to brewing.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I've followed your build for a little while and, welding that mesh is pretty darned hard. I don't recall, how heavy is your mesh? I was asked by another HBT member about doing a basket similar to your idea. I did a couple test welds for him. I'll check and see if they are still around or if I still have the pics. I doubt it though. Each wire on the mesh I did was .010" thick.

Just imagine, when you get anywhere near the mesh. It just melts and blows away. There isn't any mass to the material to hold up to any kind of heat. I would bet that part of the issues you had during the soldering was over heating the mesh.

Also, the volts on a welder is dictated by the length of the arc. As far as I know anyway. The more close you are the less volts.

The mesh I used was 30x30...can't remember wire thickness....but I bet it's standardized. I wonder if you could use some thin SS round bar (maybe even 3/16" 308l filler rod?) and construct a cage....then wrap your mesh around it and secure somehow.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I recall you have travel time to the gas supplier,your out in the sticks without a stick? JK.
Are automotive parts the same problem requiring a road trip?
I get it your on top of a mountain snowed in 8 months of the year, food must to be dropped in by C-130, whale oil lamps and animal furs now get outside and bag a Wooly Mammoth before they become extinct.

Not quite that bad. Auto parts, we have. Until I started looking for someone to weld my keggle, I didn't realize how little "welding stuff" there is in the area. The closest welding supply is probably 20 miles, so not "too" far out, but it's not even in an area where I travel much. So It just seems to be in the middle of no where.

Ed

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Just got a 55 cu ft argon tank for $69. Shipping is about $20 but I live within driving distance. USAWELD on ebay has them. I figured it was a good deal, since it's less than a 40cu ft. They'll fill it for $27. I figure that's good enuff for hobby work.

Anyone got favorite gloves? I recently got some of THESE GLOVES and they look awesome.

What about helmets? Just got one of THESE HELMETS Not too cheap, not too expensive. Actually made by Jackson and parts are available. You can get a NICE passive helmet for cheap nowadays, but I didn't want to screw up my joints by nodding the mask down. I'm still a rank beginner, but some oldtimers swear by a good passive helmet.

Mods: Should we turn the welding into a subforum? There's a LOT of interest and information on HBT as it relates to brewing.

I was surprised how quickly I went through 125cf. Plan on 15cf / hour (give or take), so your 55cf bottle will give you about 4 hours under the hood.

Do you have a cart for your welder? If I had to lug a bottle around, I would re-think the 337cf I'm looking at.

BTW... My welding supply did not have a 337cf bottle when I called today, said it should be there tomorrow so I still don't have possession.

I found some gloves at a Tractor Supply and got my helmet from Harbor Freight. I consider both temporary, but they are working out fine so far. I see the helmet you got has an adapter for cheater lens's... that would be nice (not in my cheapo version).

Ed

 

[dmfa200]

Tillman is an excellent tig glove. That's what I use.
As for welding shield, I use the the Nexgen EQC by Jackson.
One for work, another for home.
http://store.cyberweld.com/janeaudaleww.html
I like it because it has 4 sensors instead of only two that most other shields have. It helps a lot to have 4 sensors in case you're in a tight spot and your sensors get blocked because somethings in the way of them. This equals getting blinded because the lens won't darken if the sensors are blocked.
It's highly unlikely that all four sensors will get blocked at the same time.
Much higher likeliness that two of them will, and I know from experience not being able to see for several seconds that they do.
For a hobbyist welder the shields with two sensors work fine.
Just though I'd share a little info for those in the market of buying a welding shield.

 

[GreenMonti]

I to use the Tillman gloves. I use the pig skin.

That helmet looks a lot like my Optrel. I can't speak for the one you got scubasteve, but I really like my Optrel. IMO its much better then my Miller, and the SpeedGlass lids I own. Both my Miller and my SpeedGlass are/were the top of the line at the time too. I never have to turn on my Optrel, its always ready. I've seen my old boss drop his off the top of a semi trailer we were repairing and it never missed a beat. My only complaint on the Optrel is the lens covers. A little pricey and not too many carry them on hand. It looks as though they are different in your link scuba.

Now, having said all that. I find that my best investment and by far my favorite helmet and, the one I use every day. That's a plain jane Jackson 4"x5". I put a gold lens in mine. I can't say I'm an old timer but, As dmfa200 said. I just couldn't get away from getting flashed while TIG welding. I must have a bad habit of putting my hands in the way. The other thing that bothered me was. I could never find a happy medium between my hands and the table. What I mean is. The brightness of the table would set off the lens preventing me from seeing while not welding. However, if I turned up the sensitivity. I would get flashed.

To go along with dmfa200, we use Jackson's Nexgen EQC auto lens on the titanium purge chamber. I have never had any problems with that lens in the purge chamber.

 

[ScubaSteve]

GM, your description of getting flashed by "non-welding" light sources is similar to what I read when researching. There are some beautiful passive lenses out there for rock bottom prices...and they have huge viewing areas. I just didn't want to get off target by nodding the helmet down every time I place a weld. Also, I'm a newbie so I figured getting the striking technique down for stick when essentially blindfolded could be tricky. I thought about getting a bright light that would shine just enough through the mask to see dark shadows...enough so I could at least keep my bearings....but then I thought....that's way too many added bandaids and I'd probably come out even with an AD mask. So I'll give it a whirl.

I was pretty close to getting an ACCU-STRIKE mask....it's pretty obscurely marketed (the site needs work) and a lot of welders knock them, but it's a sound idea. The best of both worlds?

 

[dmfa200]

I was pretty close to getting an ACCU-STRIKE mask....it's pretty obscurely marketed (the site needs work) and a lot of welders knock them, but it's a sound idea. The best of both worlds?

I'm going to knock it also.
It's just another gimmick. Just like the tig pen.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tigpen.h...lebase&cvsfa=2530&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=74696770656e
I saw one in a catalog, and since I my work will buy me anything I want I figured what the hell.
Turns out it was a waste of money. Thankfully it wasn't mine.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I to use the Tillman gloves. I use the pig skin.

That helmet looks a lot like my Optrel. I can't speak for the one you got scubasteve, but I really like my Optrel. IMO its much better then my Miller, and the SpeedGlass lids I own. Both my Miller and my SpeedGlass are/were the top of the line at the time too.

Damn I must have old crap now, I purchased a Speedglas 9000X back in 02 with the 251 Miller Mig thinking I had the best at the time. Sure beat the Hunter with gold lens as my eyes hurt without ther gold no matter the darkness number used. Only paid $149 for the 9000X when auto dark of quality went for much more back in 02.
The only complaint I have is Mig welding outdors with back lighting going dark on me even with the sensitivity reset, a
6' yard umbrella solved this problem in direct sunlight. I now use special prescription closeup glasses 13" focal for Tig these 58 year old eyes need them Something happened with the dark close focus one day at low Tig amps a WTF happened thing?

 

[ScubaSteve]

I'm going to knock it also.
It's just another gimmick. Just like the tig pen.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tigpen.h...lebase&cvsfa=2530&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=74696770656e
I saw one in a catalog, and since I my work will buy me anything I want I figured what the hell.
Turns out it was a waste of money. Thankfully it wasn't mine.

So the tig pen is just a handle for the wire? Kinda ridiculous. At least with the accustrike there's a little bit of sense in it. But if it were the best thing since sliced bread, more people would use them....which is why autodark is so popular, I guess. A lot of people say good things about the cheap units...really, they do what they're supposed to ALMOST as well as a $300 hood...for $50. You can't beat that for hobby use.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So the tig pen is just a handle for the wire? Kinda ridiculous. At least with the accustrike there's a little bit of sense in it. But if it were the best thing since sliced bread, more people would use them....which is why autodark is so popular, I guess. A lot of people say good things about the cheap units...really, they do what they're supposed to ALMOST as well as a $300 hood...for $50. You can't beat that for hobby use.

I think the TIG pen is more than a handle... It is suppose to allow you to smoothly feed the wire into the puddle. I haven't tried it, so from a noob perspective I can't say anything about it.

I'm not sure you can buy a cheaper AD hood than the one I got... Harbor Freight on sale plus 20% discount coupon. It's my only experience with an AD hood and I have to say, it's not bad so far. I have only welded in the shop, no bright sunlight but I have had it go dark because of a bright reflection a couple times... would probably be worse outside. I haven't been in a position to be "flashed" so that hasn't been a problem. The shade range seem ok (9-13). I don't know if any do it, but it would be cool if the darkness would auto adjust. When changing current, I've started welding then realized things are way to dark, or way to bright.

Ed

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yeah, I wondered the same thing....but it would be hard to do because everyone has a subjective idea of what is too bright or dark. Maybe you could "adjust contrast" like you do with your tv. I bet that'll be a feature soon. It seems like the AD unit has a defined setting for each shade. If they could make the thing do calculus like a PID, it could autoadjust...

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I picked up the 337cf argon bottle yesterday

It is a monster! I made arrangements with a neighbor to help me get it out of the truck and on to my welding cart (it barely fit). When I got to the welding supply, this frail older lady asked if she could help me... when I told her what I wanted, she said "****, I hate those things!!". Turns out, she was the only one there that day... I'm not kidding she must be 70yo and can't weigh 100lbs :cross: I wanted to help her, but SHE rolled the bottle out on their dock. I laid it down and slid it into the truck onto the craddle I made.
The bottle rode home like a baby strapped in a car seat, no movement at all

So, BrewBeemer... Now MINE is bigger than yours.
(at least in this one, very insignificant, case)

Ed

 

[RonRock]

Anybody have any tips on welding Perforated sheet? I had a hell of a time welding a couple hinges to some perforated yesterday. Making a false bottom. Kept loosing arc or burning holes from the holes in the sheet.

Maybe I'll try my MIG rather than the TIG. Funny thing is, I've TIG welded this stuff before and not had the trouble I did. Probably should have just walked away.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Congrats Ed, now you'll appreciate the fewer trips getting that puppy refilled.
I placed a friends 300 bottle on my 251 Miller Mig it about did a wheelie when I hit #12 SOOW cord not rolling over it, the 250 this is big and heavy enough for my back. The 150Nitrogen bottle I have at 8" x 51" and much easier to move around.
Now one bottle for back gasing your set, quit buying welding toys before you end up buried in the backyard.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Anybody have any tips on welding Perforated sheet? I had a hell of a time welding a couple hinges to some perforated yesterday. Making a false bottom. Kept loosing arc or burning holes from the holes in the sheet.

Maybe I'll try my MIG rather than the TIG. Funny thing is, I've TIG welded this stuff before and not had the trouble I did. Probably should have just walked away.

I'm sure anyone could give you better advice than me, but what if you just tack weld the hinge from the "back"...i.e. letting the arc travel into the hole in the perf sheet and once you see a puddle, just dip your filler in? Is the hinge really thin? Are you sure they're stainless?

 

[RonRock]

Thanks Steve Yes the hinge was ordered from McMaster. I thought about drilling a hole in the Perf, and plug welding to the hinge.

The perforated is 16 gage, the hinges are probably the same maybe a bit thinner.

 

[dmfa200]

I'm sure anyone could give you better advice than me, but what if you just tack weld the hinge from the "back"...i.e. letting the arc travel into the hole in the perf sheet and once you see a puddle, just dip your filler in? Is the hinge really thin? Are you sure they're stainless?

Good advice ScubaSteve.
That's probably the way I would have done it.
The only obstacle will be that the arc will want to go to the perf. sheet first.
You'll most likely have to enlarge the hole with the heat of the arc to get the arc to create a puddle on the hinge.
Other than that, it should be pretty easy.

 

[Henrythe9th]

for a cheap helmet I don't think you can beat this for the quality. no replaceable battery, 2 sensors but a lot of people think its a great hobby helmet
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200311850_200311850

just upgraded to gas lenses and a good flow meter for my syncro 200. major improvements in the welds

 

[ScubaSteve]

I played around with the HTP helmet and it's pretty cool. Works well with normal lightbulbs, etc. in the house....kinda cool to see the filament burning in the bulb We'll see how it works with stick/tig. One thing I noticed; I get flashed when the light source turns off....like the helmet turns off too soon. Maybe it's the time delay?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I played around with the HTP helmet and it's pretty cool. Works well with normal lightbulbs, etc. in the house....kinda cool to see the filament burning in the bulb We'll see how it works with stick/tig. One thing I noticed; I get flashed when the light source turns off....like the helmet turns off too soon. Maybe it's the time delay?

The helmet goes OFF before the light does? Hmm... that sounds odd. I would think most flashing would occur at the front end. I'm not sure mine would even darken with a light bulb. Does it have a sensitivity setting? Is it possible you're blocking a sensor when turning off the bulb?

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

Depending on the AD hoods out there the number of sensors they have preventing blocking one and getting flashed.
With progrssive glasses (bifocals, old fart) I tested many hoods, the larger viewing area 4.09" x 2.13" made it better to see vs narrow viewing hoods.
The 3000 hour battery replacements i'm still on the original batteries 8 years later. When I purchased the 251 Miller Mig the Speedglas 9000X was offered on sale at $169 a big savings plus my employer paid for the hood.

 

[Berniep]

I played around with the HTP helmet and it's pretty cool. Works well with normal lightbulbs, etc. in the house....kinda cool to see the filament burning in the bulb We'll see how it works with stick/tig. One thing I noticed; I get flashed when the light source turns off....like the helmet turns off too soon. Maybe it's the time delay?

Turn the delay up a little. If not you can play with the sensitivity setting. I set my Miller to go dark when I look at the workshop lights.
BTW your eyes are protected from UV and IR even if it does not go dark. Doesn't stop the annoying purple spots however.
If you have problems with it call HTP they should help you out.

 

[GreenMonti]

Funny, I own a TIG pen. I can't say I've ever used it to any degree, but what I have used it. I could see where the hobbyist TIG weldor would find it useful. I could also see where it might come in real handy for those really odd welds that you just can't get at very well. I've been in some tight places having to TIG before. Laying down inside a hopper or a tank, reaching up into a small opening and working the foot pedal with my shoulder. Good times. Wish I had one then.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I started building a Brew Stand. Some folks asked for some pics so I started a thread. If you're interested it's;
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brew-stand-build-227398/#post2671804

 

[bad67z]

Looking good Ed.