Founders Mosaic Promise IPA Clone

[Apple_Jacker]

I've been having trouble finding a tried-and-tested clone recipe for Founders Mosaic Promise, so I plan on trying out the only one I could find:

Partial Mash Recipe:

- 4 lbs. Light DME
- 7.5 lbs. Golden Promise (if I can find it)
- Wyeast 1056
- 6 oz. Mosaic Hops pellets
- 60 minutes - 1.5 oz.
- 15 minutes - 1.5 oz.
- 1 minute - 1.5 oz.
- DH - 1.5 oz.

Seems like a pretty simple recipe, but I do not have any type of homebrew calculator. Anyone care to offer any tips/comments/advice?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I've never had one, so can't help personally, but you could compare it to the recipes in this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=494127
for yellow rose mosaic/pils SMaSH.

 

[BeerFst]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

Don't need to pay for this calculator if you only want to hold on to a few recipe's. It should you well.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Thanks for the input! From Founders themselves:

http://foundersbrewing.com/our-beer/mosaic-promise/

They call out only the mosaic hops and the golden promise malt. I'll check out that calculator and adjust as needed. I may just stick to those 3 ingredients and see what happens!

 

[BeerFst]

Since its only 50 IBUS i would move up the 60 minute addition considerably. You could probably get all of that by only hopping after 30 minutes, since you have a considerable amount of Mosaic on your hands.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Since its only 50 IBUS i would move up the 60 minute addition considerably. You could probably get all of that by only hopping after 30 minutes, since you have a considerable amount of Mosaic on your hands.

I used that beer calculator linked above, and I plan on doing exactly that. 30 minute, 15 minute, and 1 minute additions.

EDIT: here's the recipe I plugged in. FYI, I intentionally went low on my efficiency. I haven't quite mastered BIAB yet... and this is the first time using a homebrew calculator.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/316564/mosaic-promise-clone-rev-1

 

[Apple_Jacker]

I think I am over-thinking this now.

I just noticed that I set my brew method on the homebrew calculator as "BIAB" rather than the "Partial Mash" method I listed in my original post. Here's what's causing me to over-think this:

I got curious, so I changed the method to "Partial Mash" and it changes my numbers considerably, especially the IBU's.

Keeping my hop schedule at the following:

1.5 oz. at 30 minutes
1.5 oz. at 15 minutes
1.5 oz. at 1 minute
1.5 oz. DH

I see the following differences:
- when the boil size is at the default of 3 gallons - 48 IBU's
- when the boil size is at the 7.5 gallons I had planned on - 87.5 IBU's

So while I am doing the BIAB when I mash the Golden Promise, I am also adding the DME, making it a Partial Mash too. In my mind, I am doing both Partial Mash AND BIAB.

My question is - which method should I be plugging into the homebrew calculator in order to get some accurate numbers?

Or do I just simply adjust my boil volume in order to hit the 50 IBU mark?

As I stated above, this is my first time using a a homebrew calculator.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The concentration of sugar quite significantly affects bitterness extraction from hops.

Your method is both BIAB and partial mash.
It shouldn't matter which one you put into a calculator (as far as your IBU calculations go) providing your boil volume and gravity are accurate. If you're boiling the full 7.5gals, go with the 87.5IBU estimate and adjust the hops to get your target IBU.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

To expand on the above, if you lower your boil volume to adjust IBU's, you are likely to end up with terrible mash efficiency and not hit your target gravity. You'd be better off simply lowering the 30min hop addition and keeping your full boil volume to hit your target bitterness.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

(Hopefully) Final Recipe Edit:


http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/316564/mosaic-promise-clone-rev-1

4 lbs. Light DME
7.5 lbs. Golden Promise
Wyeast 1272
6 oz. Mosaic Hops

Boil Volume - 7.5 gallons
Batch Size - 5.5 gallons

Hop Schedule:
30 minutes - 0.5 oz. Mosaic
15 minutes - 1.5 oz. Mosaic
1 minute - 2.0 oz. Mosaic
DH - 2.0 Mosaic

OG - 1.061
FG - 1.017
ABV - 5.81%
IBU - 54.2
Efficiency - 60%

I'll be giving this a go this weekend!

 

[WestMichBrewer]

I think I am over-thinking this now.

I just noticed that I set my brew method on the homebrew calculator as "BIAB" rather than the "Partial Mash" method I listed in my original post. Here's what's causing me to over-think this:

I got curious, so I changed the method to "Partial Mash" and it changes my numbers considerably, especially the IBU's.

Keeping my hop schedule at the following:

1.5 oz. at 30 minutes
1.5 oz. at 15 minutes
1.5 oz. at 1 minute
1.5 oz. DH

I see the following differences:
- when the boil size is at the default of 3 gallons - 48 IBU's
- when the boil size is at the 7.5 gallons I had planned on - 87.5 IBU's

So while I am doing the BIAB when I mash the Golden Promise, I am also adding the DME, making it a Partial Mash too. In my mind, I am doing both Partial Mash AND BIAB.

My question is - which method should I be plugging into the homebrew calculator in order to get some accurate numbers?

Or do I just simply adjust my boil volume in order to hit the 50 IBU mark?

As I stated above, this is my first time using a a homebrew calculator.

I've noticed that BrewersFriend seems to reset a few of your selections when you change brewing methods. Go back and check your batch and boil sizes and efficiency settings.
Also make sure you make your DME a "late addition" as this will also affect your hop utilization.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I'll be giving this a go this weekend!

Interested in seeing how this goes. Best of luck!

 

[brewprint]

I was going to try this as well.

However I was probably just going to do a 60 minute of a bittering hop and then do all the rest at flame out and do around a 30 minute hop stand.

I bet 6 ounces of hops is overkill.

Briess 2-row is all I was going to use for the mash. No DME.

Alcohol is low and so is IBU on this beer. It's very tasty though.

 

[brewprint]

(Hopefully) Final Recipe Edit:


http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/316564/mosaic-promise-clone-rev-1

4 lbs. Light DME
7.5 lbs. Golden Promise
Wyeast 1272
6 oz. Mosaic Hops

Boil Volume - 7.5 gallons
Batch Size - 5.5 gallons

Hop Schedule:
30 minutes - 0.5 oz. Mosaic
15 minutes - 1.5 oz. Mosaic
1 minute - 2.0 oz. Mosaic
DH - 2.0 Mosaic

OG - 1.061
FG - 1.017
ABV - 5.81%
IBU - 54.2
Efficiency - 60%

I'll be giving this a go this weekend!

This final gravity looks way too high also. I bet it's more like 1.012 or 1.010 on this beer.

You're only getting 60% efficiency with BIAB?

 

[Apple_Jacker]

This final gravity looks way too high also. I bet it's more like 1.012 or 1.010 on this beer.

You're only getting 60% efficiency with BIAB?

The 2 or 3 attempts at BIAB so far were under 50%, but it was because I apparently skipped a few steps without realizing it. I'm going to closely follow the sticky in the BIAB forum instead of the other site I looked at on BIAB (can't remember which one at the moment).

I too thought the final gravity looked too high; that would make for a sweet beer. But I was trusting the accuracy of the calculator. I'm going to tweak some things and re-post some (hopefully) more accurate numbers.

EDIT: For the life of me I cannot get the final gravity to go any lower than 1.016.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

I've noticed that BrewersFriend seems to reset a few of your selections when you change brewing methods. Go back and check your batch and boil sizes and efficiency settings.
Also make sure you make your DME a "late addition" as this will also affect your hop utilization.

I didn't even notice the "late addition" option before. Thanks!

I was hit by a nice sinus infection right before the weekend started. I didn't want to sneeze or cough all over everything, so I held off on getting this beer underway.

 

[brewprint]

The 2 or 3 attempts at BIAB so far were under 50%, but it was because I apparently skipped a few steps without realizing it. I'm going to closely follow the sticky in the BIAB forum instead of the other site I looked at on BIAB (can't remember which one at the moment).

I too thought the final gravity looked too high; that would make for a sweet beer. But I was trusting the accuracy of the calculator. I'm going to tweak some things and re-post some (hopefully) more accurate numbers.

EDIT: For the life of me I cannot get the final gravity to go any lower than 1.016.

The calculator's FG is usually going to be higher than actual in my experience. If you're mashing at 150-152 (I would mash this beer at 150 because it seems dry to me) the FG is going to be around 1.011.

What other steps are you talking about? With an OG of 1.05 or so, I get around 75% efficiency with BIAB. That is doing a 60 minute mash and stirring it and raising the temp if needed every 20 minutes.

I don't do a mash out or a sparge. I use the Priceless calculator. I squeeze the bag with cutting boards.

I also don't do any water modification where I live. Nothing.

I do use a Cereal Killer grain mill that I have set around .027 and run the grain through once.

Which other steps are you referring to that you think you need?

 

[Apple_Jacker]

OK I made some additional tweaks to this recipe. I adjusted my boil size, efficiency, the amount of hops, and the grain bill. I bought 10 lbs. of the Golden Promise, so I figured I'd use less of the DME (set as a late addition) and use more of the actual grains I wanted instead. I feel there's still something off here because the final gravity still seems a few points too high at 1.015, but maybe I'm wrong. Here's the latest and greatest recipe update:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/316564/mosaic-promise-clone-rev-1

1.5 lbs. Light DME (late addition)
10.0 lbs. Golden Promise
Wyeast 1272
4 oz. Mosaic Hops, 12.3% AA

Mash Volume - 7.5 gallons; 155 Degrees F for 60 minutes
Boil Volume - 6.5 gallons; Boil time - 60 minutes
Batch Size - 5.5 gallons

Hop Schedule:
30 minutes - 1.0 oz. Mosaic
20 minutes - 0.5 oz. Mosaic
1 minute - 0.5 oz. Mosaic
DH - 2.0 Mosaic

OG - 1.059
FG - 1.015
ABV - 5.59%
IBU - 50.95
Efficiency - 70%

 

[Apple_Jacker]

The calculator's FG is usually going to be higher than actual in my experience. If you're mashing at 150-152 (I would mash this beer at 150 because it seems dry to me) the FG is going to be around 1.011.

What other steps are you talking about? With an OG of 1.05 or so, I get around 75% efficiency with BIAB. That is doing a 60 minute mash and stirring it and raising the temp if needed every 20 minutes.

I don't do a mash out or a sparge. I use the Priceless calculator. I squeeze the bag with cutting boards.

I also don't do any water modification where I live. Nothing.

I do use a Cereal Killer grain mill that I have set around .027 and run the grain through once.

Which other steps are you referring to that you think you need?

1. I didn't pay attention to the temperature loss my first attempt; I didn't try to retain heat either.
2. I didn't do a mash-out (but I guess that's not exactly necessary), but I also did not squeeze out the grains either.
3. I didn't crush my grains fine enough; If I remember correctly, I still had whole/uncrushed grains
4. I basically placed all of the grains in a bag and tied it and steep it like a tea bag, so I really didn't have a good way to stir the water and grain thoroughly. This, coupled with the bad grain crush and not squeezing the grains are the steps that I feel attributed the most to my terrible efficiency before.

I get RO water from a local grocery store, for what it's worth. I've also used filtered tap water in the past.

I just tweaked my recipe some. I think I"m getting closer to where it needs to be.

 

[brewprint]

1. I didn't pay attention to the temperature loss my first attempt; I didn't try to retain heat either.
2. I didn't do a mash-out (but I guess that's not exactly necessary), but I also did not squeeze out the grains either.
3. I didn't crush my grains fine enough; If I remember correctly, I still had whole/uncrushed grains
4. I basically placed all of the grains in a bag and tied it and steep it like a tea bag, so I really didn't have a good way to stir the water and grain thoroughly. This, coupled with the bad grain crush and not squeezing the grains are the steps that I feel attributed the most to my terrible efficiency before.

I get RO water from a local grocery store, for what it's worth. I've also used filtered tap water in the past.

I just tweaked my recipe some. I think I"m getting closer to where it needs to be.

Here's a suggestion:

Don't use the RO water. Use the tap water.

Make sure the crush is good. Have them double mill it.

Make sure that you stir the grain in the bag.

Use a blanket or an old coat to retain the heat. Check every 15-20 minutes and stir making sure it's stirred well so that you're getting an accurate temp.

You could also do a 90 minute mash to make certain.

Squeeze your bag but make sure to boil off the extra.

These few tweeks should get your efficiency up to 70%.

Drop the DME. At least try these steps and if you don't get the correct efficiency then add the DME.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Here's a suggestion:

Don't use the RO water. Use the tap water.

Make sure the crush is good. Have them double mill it.

Make sure that you stir the grain in the bag.

Use a blanket or an old coat to retain the heat. Check every 15-20 minutes and stir making sure it's stirred well so that you're getting an accurate temp.

You could also do a 90 minute mash to make certain.

Squeeze your bag but make sure to boil off the extra.

These few tweeks should get your efficiency up to 70%.

Drop the DME. At least try these steps and if you don't get the correct efficiency then add the DME.

Not sure why I didn't think about the water I was buying. The few beers I have made with RO water (I just started doing this) were a little thin on the flavor... I guess that could help explain it. I found a report of the local water here in Chattanooga, TN:

http://www.amwater.com/twq/chattanooga_twq.pdf

I'll probably still use the charcoal filter to help get the chlorine taste out out it.

Regarding grain crush, I am doing that myself with one of those Victoria Grain Mills. I'll just have to do it better.

On the last 2 BIAB attempts, I did pay attention to the heat retention/loss. I used a combination of old sheets and towels and that held the temp pretty well.

I'll definitely be doing the other things you had recommended.

 

[brewprint]

Not sure why I didn't think about the water I was buying. The few beers I have made with RO water (I just started doing this) were a little thin on the flavor... I guess that could help explain it. I found a report of the local water here in Chattanooga, TN:

http://www.amwater.com/twq/chattanooga_twq.pdf

I'll probably still use the charcoal filter to help get the chlorine taste out out it.

Regarding grain crush, I am doing that myself with one of those Victoria Grain Mills. I'll just have to do it better.

On the last 2 BIAB attempts, I did pay attention to the heat retention/loss. I used a combination of old sheets and towels and that held the temp pretty well.

I'll definitely be doing the other things you had recommended.

I personally don't mess around with removing the chlorine. I do the full volume mash/boil so all of the chlorine evaporates during the boil anyway.

You are doing everything at full volume correct?

 

[Apple_Jacker]

I personally don't mess around with removing the chlorine. I do the full volume mash/boil so all of the chlorine evaporates during the boil anyway.

You are doing everything at full volume correct?

That sure is the plan.

 

[brewprint]

That sure is the plan.

On your previous attempts at BIAB did you do full volume mash and boil?

 

[Apple_Jacker]

On your previous attempts at BIAB did you do full volume mash and boil?

Yes on one; on the other I added water to get my boil volume up.

 

[brewprint]

Yes on one; on the other I added water to get my boil volume up.

Okay.

Do the full volume mash with your tap water making sure to keep the heat. Squeeze the bag when you drain and rock on.

You should be at a solid 70%.

Post back results when you do it.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

OK I finished brewing this one a few hours ago. I have a starting gravity of 1.068 (@ 64 degrees) with 5 gallons in the fermentation bucket. This one's going to be stronger than I had planned. Next time I will not add any DME at all.

 

[brewprint]

OK I finished brewing this one a few hours ago. I have a starting gravity of 1.068 (@ 64 degrees) with 5 gallons in the fermentation bucket. This one's going to be stronger than I had planned. Next time I will not add any DME at all.

If you did the original recipe that you posted on post 1, then you arrived at just over 70% efficiency without using the DME.

Hopefully you got that using the things we discussed earlier. It sounds like it worked

 

[Apple_Jacker]

If you did the original recipe that you posted on post 1, then you arrived at just over 70% efficiency without using the DME.

Hopefully you got that using the things we discussed earlier. It sounds like it worked

I sure did.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

It took almost 36 hours, but I finally started seeing some airlock activity Monday morning. Today, I woke up to a nice sludgy mess on top of my fermentation bucket; the beer blew through the airlock and sprayed all over the place. Luckily the lid didn't blow off! It's been a long time since I had this happen... I'll have to start using a blow-off tube again! For scientific research, I tasted some of the sludge before I cleaned it all up, and it sure tasted delicious so far! My basement smells pretty great too! I'm looking forward to the end product, even if it doesn't taste like the Founders beer I tried to clone!

 

[brewprint]

Excellent! No pics of the blow off?

I did a Mosaic Smash over the weekend. 11lbs Avangard Pale Malt (2-row), .6@60, 1@10, 1@5, 1@KO, 1 dry hop. It makes my closet smell very nice.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Here's the picture of the blow-off

View attachment 1454529518246.jpg

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Quick update -

I have a final gravity of 1.009 @ 62 degrees. Assuming my homebrew calculator app is correct, I have an ABV of 7.7%. I'm definitely leaving out the DME next time. That being said, it tasted pretty damn good and has a nice golden yellow color to it. I should've taken a picture first before drinking it. I'm now dry hopping with 2 ounces of Mosaic. I'll be bottling next Saturday.

 

[brewprint]

Quick update -

I have a final gravity of 1.009 @ 62 degrees. Assuming my homebrew calculator app is correct, I have an ABV of 7.7%. I'm definitely leaving out the DME next time. That being said, it tasted pretty damn good and has a nice golden yellow color to it. I should've taken a picture first before drinking it. I'm now dry hopping with 2 ounces of Mosaic. I'll be bottling next Saturday.

Right on! I bet that beer is good

 

[Apple_Jacker]

I bottled this one on Sunday. There was a pretty good amount of trub in the bottom of the bucket, more than the last few beers for sure. Either way, I ended up with 46 bottles. I'll be cracking one open to test it out this Sunday!

 

[brewprint]

I think I'm going to dry hop my Mosaic Smash tonight. 5 days later it's off to the keg.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

I think I'm going to dry hop my Mosaic Smash tonight. 5 days later it's off to the keg.

What's your recipe?

 

[brewprint]

What's your recipe?

I'll get it to you when I get home.

 

[brewprint]

Excellent! No pics of the blow off?

I did a Mosaic Smash over the weekend. 11lbs Avangard Pale Malt (2-row), .6@60, 1@10, 1@5, 1@KO, 1 dry hop. It makes my closet smell very nice.

Here was the recipe but I changed it to 1.5oz dry hop.

 

[brizzle14]

I bottled this one on Sunday. There was a pretty good amount of trub in the bottom of the bucket, more than the last few beers for sure. Either way, I ended up with 46 bottles. I'll be cracking one open to test it out this Sunday!

How did it taste? I brewed your recipe a few weeks ago. Still fermenting but anxious to bottle. Our area's distributors (Charleston, SC) are going to have this in 6-packs next month. Hope the clone turns out as good!