First first brew comming up and its All Grain!

[corpsman619]

All,

I have always been an ambitious guy, needles to say when I was turned on to home brewing I did not want to settle for extract. I have purchased everything I will need for my first brew-day (AG Sierra Nevada PA clone) and have spent many red eyed nights researching and reading JP How to brew. Now I know many of you are thinking "well that's all fine and good but you have no hands on experience" and to that I say "YOUR DAMN RIGHT I DONT" I was hoping I could get some of your thoughts on starting off AG and some pointers you might have for me.

-Cheers

 

[HeavyHefe]

Sounds kind of dumb. I think it makes sense to kind of build up to the making of a really good product. But you'll probably end up with beer nonetheless.

Also I'm super f'ick wasted rihgt now.

 

[corpsman619]

You are a scholar and a gentleman Sir!

 

[benco]

Sounds great to me, I wished I started years ago. You will learn a lot quickly. You read the book, now it's just you, your ingredients and equipment. Good luck with the first batch!

 

[DuckiesRevenge]

So without knowing what you have or anything, start by reading all of the stickies in the all grain forum. Next, brew. The best advice is to read and brew. You will get helpful hints and tips here, but once you actually do it it will get easier and things will start to make sense. Start off simple, like the SN beer you mentioned. The go from there.

Is there anything specific you would like to know?

 

[Yooper]

I think it's fine. There isn't any need to start with extract if you feel confident that you can do the mashing process. For many, the issue is equipment. Many start small with extract brewing and stove top brewing to avoid spending much money at first.

If you have the time and the equipment, AG brewing isn't any "harder" than extract brewing. Mashing involves putting grain in water and then taking the resulting liquid out of that- it's so easy even I can do it!

Just be patient during the brewday, and expect things to come up. Have some boiling water on hand, and a few ice cubes, so if you miss your mash temp wildly you can correct. The only tip I can give on that it is to stir well. If you are only a couple of degrees off, then just stir more and wait for it to equalize. Many people try to correct and add boiling water, and then it's too hot. Then they add ice, and it's too cold. So they go back and forth. Be patient, and if you're close just call it "close enough".

If you have any issues during the brewday, just run to the computer and ask for help. There is almost always an experienced brewer on the forum who can walk you through it!

 

[corpsman619]

*Ducky*
Yeah 2 things I was thinking about:
1.) I do not have a digital scale have you heard of people measuring out hops via tsp?
2.) I do not have one of those nice thermometers that have sensors sitting in the tun, will I loose a substantial amount of heat as a periodically check the temp?

 

[Yooper]

*Ducky*
Yeah 2 things I was thinking about:
1.) I do not have a digital scale have you heard of people measuring out hops via tsp?
2.) I do not have one of those nice thermometers that have sensors sitting in the tun, will I loose a substantial amount of heat as a periodically check the temp?

1. No. You need to do it by weight. Most hops come by the ounce, so eyeballing them by making 1/2 and 1/2 piles would work for smaller additions. If you have larger quantities than that, a kitchen scale would work.
2. You don't need to check the temp, unless you think you're loosing a lot of heat. Mash in, stir like you mean it, check the temperature in a couple of different places, and if it's the same it's good. If it's different stir some more. Once the temperature is equalized throughout, cover it up, and walk away. You can check once or twice more to see if you are losing a ton of heat, but I would recommend doing it as little as possible. Make sure you preheat your MLT well, and it should hold the heat.

 

[corpsman619]

**more questions**
- I noticed that when I ran my (garden hose) water through my chiller it really didn't make it very cold, it almost made me feel like buying the thing was a waste, I was thinking of filling my bottling bucket with nice and set it wayyyy high and connect one of the chiller tubes to the bucket's spigot and run ice water through?

 

[Cyclman]

You can definitely start with AG, and make good beer. Plan LOTS of time, it took me a number of batches before I had things "down" now it is semi-automatic for me.

Chillers are good at getting beer down from hot temps to warm temps, I have a ferm chamber, so I bring it down to the sixties in there. A keg bucket and frozen ice bottles is a good investment, you can even lager with them.

Get a good digital thermometer, I love my thermoworks, mashing at correct temps is very important.

Mashing at the right temps, chilling the wort, and pitching the right amount of yeast (use Mr. Malty if you're not already familiar with that), and you're on the right path. Best luck!

Once you start, it is addicitve and lots of fun. Soooo much to learn to go from making good beer to making fantastic beer, a never ending quest.

 

[DuckiesRevenge]

I agree with cyclman. I get my wort down to 80-90 with a chiller then cool it the rest of the way I'm my fridge. If you don't have a fridge the keg bucket and ice works well.

 

[corpsman619]

I just feel like with normal garden hose water my chiller child don't feel too cold. I guess I can't see how it will cool 5+ gal of water.

 

[corpsman619]

Coils* maybe it's the California water

 

[LovesIPA]

The chiller will work fine. I stir the wort with the chiller every few minutes and it drops the temperature down pretty quickly. Once it gets down to 80* or so, I pull the chiller out, rack it to the fermenter, and put it in the fermentation chamber. After about 3-4 hours the temp has dropped down to the low 60's and I pitch the yeast.

I also have a second chiller than I can submerge in an ice batch, if I remember to freeze a bucket of water the night before (not usually). In that case I run both chillers in series and it cools it down very quickly.

 

[AnOldUR]

. . . I was hoping I could get some of your thoughts on starting off AG . . .

Here's my thought. When someone’s learning to drive, would you suggest they do it on the freeway or try some back roads first?

A lot of brewers prefer AG once they have the process mastered, but good beer or bad beer can be made with either AG or extract. The thing to keep in mind is that it’s a progressive learning process with potential for problems throughout. By taking one step at a time, you’ll be able to eliminate difficulties before moving on. In the long run this can get you to where you want to be faster.

 

[LovesIPA]

I don't think freeway vs. back roads is a good analogy. I don't see it as a problem if someone starts out with all-grain brewing if they have the equipment and the knowledge. If he's read the Palmer book then he understand the process better than at least some of the people that post questions in this forum.

I say go for it.

 

[northcal]

good luck corps!

I did the same thing and you will learn quickly. It's just homebrewing guys, not rocket science.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I did not find the transition to all grain all that challenging because of three things:

I researched the crap out of it
I started simple (style-wise) with low expectations
All my equipment was designed to be flexible enough to cover my my inexperience

On the first point, that is just me as I never spend money, and my time is money, unless I have what I believe to be all the facts.

The second one, darker beer with with a simple grain bill and no weird ingredients. Roasted malts deal with potential clarity issues and simple grain bills with modified malts mean you will still get full conversion easily in a 15 degree temperature range when, not if, you miss your target temp. Expect the beer you make the first few times to be less than perfect but still drinkable.

The last one was because I had space and friends to do most of the build I could not do...three tier, three keggle, three burner on a welded stair step stand. In lieu of that, make sure you know all the ways to increase temp of your mash that are available to you.

FYI, temp control is the only skill you need that you do not need in extract brewing. This means get two thermometers and calibrate them both at boiling and an ice bath.

Also, keep some DME on hand if you miss your OG. Keep reading threads on what you should have on hand for spares and how to mitigate minor mess-ups on brew day. Get a fellow brewer to come over and help...usually helps if you offer cured pork products and good beer.

 

[Yellowirenut]

I went from extract to all grain in five batches. If I could do it again I would go all grain to start with. Wasted a lot of $ on stove top pots and other things (cheep burner) I ended up tossing or giving away. I can always do a quick extract boil if I am short on weekend time with my all grain pots.

Remember anyone can make beer. But it takes knowledge and experience to make a great beer. I am still lacking a bit on the great beer front.

 

[Travestian]

I started with all-grain much like you did. I made sure to read plenty of threads. The best thing I did was watch several youtube videos of the whole process. By the time I got to my first brew day I didn't even need to go back to the computer to figure out what I needed to do next. The best thing you can do on brew day is to ensure you get a proper mash temperature. Be sure you preheat your bash tun with some nearly boiling water. It only takes about a quart. And use a calculator to ensure you hit the temp. I've never had issues with mine using this website.

 

[MindenMan]

I started brewing with too little knowledge or experience to know what the instructions really meant even though I know how to read.
I used to chase my mash temperatures all over the place until i bought a floating thermometer. Yes, I know they are slow, but it takes the grain a minute or so to temperature up anyway. After reading that my horseshoe shaped strainer wasn't get the most out of my lautering and sparging, I made a Zapap lauter tun, bought a hydrometer, and the quality and consistency of my beer vastly improved. I still don't have a immersion chiller, but I will make one as soon as I have the money. Right now it's a tub with running water to initially bring the temperature below 100*F, and then I use ice to get the temp down into the low 60's to pitch the yeast. It's been about a year, and although my beers aren't perfect yet, they are good enough to drink quite easily.

 

[MarcusKillion]

AG is just a longer process . Nothing hard or complicated about it . Getting used to your equipment and not allowing little goofs to get in the way is the main thing . got to remember to watch when needed to stop over boiling and to add hops at right times .... Basically just paying attention . something I am not good at by the way .
you will make a great beer . I do not think extract brewing is of any great help to get ready for AG .

 

[plumber_bob]

If you did do the studying and research, I say no problem. You should do good.
My very first batch ever was 10 gallon AG. It was ok and drinkable, the main thing was that I figured out the flaws in my setup.

One thing I figured out was that if I'm using a counter flow chiller, get a pump. Mine had to set over night before pitching.

pb --- You'll be just fine.:rockin:

 

[corpsman619]

Thank you all for your input, one of the main reasons I decided to go for AG was because a guy offered me his MLT for $20. I then found a sweet deal on a 50qt pot and burner, so at my LHBS the guys was like "you might at well just go AG, there no real reason not to." Another thing he mentioned is that my pot would be less than ideal for boiling the 2.5-3 gal of water for extract anyways. I am going to try to find a fellow homebrewer to oversee my first brewday, honestly haven't met too many people in the community yet (being a total noob and all)

 

[corpsman619]

A few things that I am missing are:
Scale- weighing out my hops ( I did find a site that helped convered grams to tsp)
decent thermometer- I have a turkey thermometer (already been calibrated) but I am not sure if it will be long enough and I am nervous about letting heat out of my MLT to check the temp.
-Secondary Ferm- my first brew-day comming up is going to be a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, it calls for dry hopping (with whole hops) and i only have a primary bucket

 

[AnOldUR]

Another thing he mentioned is that my pot would be less than ideal for boiling the 2.5-3 gal of water for extract anyways.

So the guy never heard of full boil extract?

 

[corpsman619]

I guess i could just toss em in the bucket and give them a super gental poke to saturate. Dont think i am going to try to whole "bag and weight" trick. I think it might be a little tricky when racking from my dry hopped primary to my bottling bucket with all the trub and hops to worry about (not to mention that i will not be able to see $h*t because its a bucket) lol

 

[Onkel_Udo]

If you are concerned...why not primary in your bottling bucket and rack to the "primary" as your secondary. This allows you to use the bottling bucket again at bottling.

I do not bother with a secondary and the muslin bag with a couple of cheap SS washers in it is not rocket science.

 

[corpsman619]

I guess the only thing I would be afraid of would be sanitation because of the spigot and whatnot. Have you tried this method? I dont really see any reason why it wouldnt work, my fermometer is on my primary but i could just sanitize my crappy kitchen thermometer and pop the top like 1-2 times a day... Maybe once a day

 

[AnOldUR]

Really bad idea. Way too much head space in a primary bucket to use it as a secondary.

 

[LovesIPA]

A few things that I am missing are:
Scale- weighing out my hops ( I did find a site that helped convered grams to tsp)

You can't convert units of mass to units of volume without knowing the density. In other words, you just can't do it that way.

I use a digital scale that I got at a smoke shop for $30. I use it ALL the time. I weigh out DME for starters, hops, and water salts. I could not brew without it and I don't imagine you can either.

decent thermometer- I have a turkey thermometer (already been calibrated) but I am not sure if it will be long enough and I am nervous about letting heat out of my MLT to check the temp.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you're just checking the temp a few times near the beginning of the mash you will lose very little heat.

-Secondary Ferm- my first brew-day comming up is going to be a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone, it calls for dry hopping (with whole hops) and i only have a primary bucket

You can dry hop in the primary. You can throw them in whole or you can use a muslin bag. A bag makes it much, much easier when it comes times to rack the beer. You will thank yourself for using a bag and some stainless washers when your autosiphon isn't clogging up every 2 minutes.

A secondary isn't necessary.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Really bad idea. Way too much head space in a primary bucket to use it as a secondary.

I have always released so much dissolved CO2 I have never had an issue.

I still would rather go no secondary but that is more from laziness.

 

[corpsman619]

I don't understand, my bottling bucket and my fermenting bucket are the same size. So how would there be too much headspace in the bb and not the ferm??

 

[AnOldUR]

I don't understand, my bottling bucket and my fermenting bucket are the same size. So how would there be too much headspace in the bb and not the ferm??

Ideally a 5 gallon carboy is used as a secondary vessel. If you fill it up into the neck there is very little volume and very little surface area for oxygen to contact your beer.

 

[corpsman619]

So then why is it ok to use a primary (usually 6.5+ gal) to dry hop? As most people here don't use secondaries, so mist people here are fermenting with more than ideal of headspace

 

[AnOldUR]

When fermentation is active, it purges O2 from the head space. Good practice is to disturb that as little as possible. When you add dry hops to the primary you will introduce oxygen, but far less than if you had transferred the beer between two buckets. If you add the hops in a proficient manner a minimal amount of O2 will mix with the CO2.

Personally I use a carboy as a secondary vessel when I dry hop. I add the hops to the carboy and then purge with CO2 before transferring the beer on top of them. I also use CO2 to push the beer from one vessel to the other.

 

[Travestian]

One thing to note though is if you dry hop in the primary (which I do) you must wait until AFTER fermentation is over. Otherwise the yeast will have their way and the hop flavors and aromas will be much much less than if done after the fermentation. Oxygen is the reason I don't transfer beers anymore either. It also takes time I simply don't have.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Just so the OP does not get overwhelmed, a lot of this is "best practices" type stuff and much of it is even relatively recent. You will likely still make very, very good beer 95% of the time (after you get your process down) if you use all buckets with too much head space (even a 3/4" blanket of CO2 is enough in a close fermenter), use a secondary and even if you fail to use a yeast starter, ferment at 72 f, etc, etc.

As Charlie P liked to say: relax, have a homebrew (or quality commercial brew). You are skipping the training wheels and went straight to the big-boy bike...this does not mean you will be an Olympic cyclist on the first brew.

Pick your battles on the first one and focus on hitting your OG and not doing a boil-over. Make sure your wort is fully cool before pitching your yeast. Make sure fermentation is complete before bottling using at least two spaced reading the same. And the entire time, be fanatical about your sanitation. Your beer will still be very good if you dry hop in secondary, primary or not at all.

 

[Travestian]

I found a spray bottle with plain water in it helps to minimize boil overs. Simply spray the foam as it comes up. I also use FermcapS but that is completely optional.

 

[corpsman619]

what is an OP? lol