Extract IPA Taste Like 'Funky Honey' - No Trace of Hops

[greenfrog5]

4th beer batch (2nd IPA), my Recipe and Notes:

Had one half-filled 22oz bottle with the leftover from bottling, let it carb for a week and a half then tossed it in the fridge to avoid a bomb. I tried it the other day after a week in the fridge, it wasn't very carbed (as expected), but this beer had NO evidence of hops, AT ALL. SWMBO described it as 'funky honey,' kind of like bee pollen (I've never had) with a finish of weird honey. I'd say nothing but sweet, kind of like honey, no bitter, no hops, no hops. WTF? She and I agree, that there is no grassy flavor (since I dry hopped for 2 weeks, this was a concern), and not much else going on, aside from the obviously sweet character.

The 1st IPA I did was a kit, I think for 3-gal batch, and it came out good, but definitely a but under-hopped. It had bitterness, but not much hop flavor or aroma. It was also dry-hopped, but not as much.

Generally, I start with about 3 gal boil, and gradually build it up with boiling water additions to ~4 gal by flame-out. I suspect my problem is poor hops utilization. I haven't taken the partial-boil-reduced-utilization seriously yet, and never have adjusted the recipe (sometimes the recipes are already for 3-gal boil anyway). The more I've read-up on it, I should likely be doubling my hops for most hoppy recipes and RDWHAHB, I love hops, so unexpected hop bitter/flavor/aroma would be fine. This should be a hugely hoppy beer. Shouldn't I be getting something?

I'm considering a split/full boil next, because I don't like the idea of inefficient use of my favorite/most expensive ingredient. I haven't done any late-DME additions, which I will also try next and should help some.

It seems to have fully attenuated (shouldn't be unfermented malt). Tasting unfinished priming sugar, should still have hop flavor.

I imagine wetting my aroma hops prematurely (see notes) might decrease their contribution to the aroma. Dry hops should have helped here.

This recipe has a LOT of hops, no? Even with poor hop utilization, it should have some hop bitter/flavor? Am I missing something here?

Thanks
Aaron

 

[unionrdr]

When I bottled mine 3 weeks ago,there was some bitterness (very little) at the end of the swallow,but it was green beer,just as yours is now. Give it some more time to condition the aromas/flavors. It's not just carbonating. It needs time for that "greenness" to go away.

 

[Ravenshead]

You didn't really get many IBUs the way you used your hops. To provide bitterness hops have to be boiled. Dry hopping is just for aroma. With only 1.5 oz of Amarillo in your boil you're only getting 26.9 IBUs.

You also subbed Amarillo (Alpha ~8.5%) for Summit (Alpha ~17.5%) which would have given you about 55 IBUs.

At 26.9 IBUs you should be able to taste hops but it won't be IPA kinda hops. I don't see any reason why you beer won't still taste OK, it's just not going to be what you were looking for.

Next time use the Summit @60 and the Amarillo @15 and @5. Then you can dry hop with some more Amarillo if you like. That will get you about 73 IBUs.

 

[greenfrog5]

Thank you! SWMBO often gets ingredients while I'm at work, and they didn't have the Summit and had her sub Amarillo. We are still learning, so blindly followed. It didn't occur to me to check the stats for further adjustment!

SWMBO elaborated on the 'bee pollen' flavor as likely being a 'wet hop' flavor, but still not 'grassy'. Hopefully that is the greenness of the dry hopping, and it'll lend a more traditional hop aroma with time.

Good to know that the bittering substitution likely led to our less-than-IPA, and I should start using software to double-check my recipes and subs.

Aaron

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I wouldn't judge it just yet. Any time I have ever only filled a bottle half full and tried it, it has never been the same as the rest of the full bottles. Give it another week and let it finish carbing up and then try a bottle that has been filled with correct headspace.

Was your FG 1.022 or 1.017?

 

[Ravenshead]

My pleasure. Don't forget that dry-hopping doesn't get you IBUs. If you had used the Summit but still didn't boil the Amarillo you'd still be a bit short on the IBUs if you're a hop head like me.

Edit: I just noticed your OG is off as well. 7 lbs of DME in 5 gallons gives an OG of 1.031. You need 16 lbs to get an OG of 1.071. Did you measure your OG prior to fermentation?

 

[greenfrog5]

I did not measure my OG (since I'd been doing only extract-kits + top-off prior with inaccurate readings)

My FG is as stated in the notes, 1.017, the recipe stats are for reference.

16 lbs? That is 2x what I've used in any recipe so far (though some had 6 lbs LME + 1 DME), all of which had OGs stated above 1.050. I have an Imperial Red IPA recipe that has 7.83 lbs DME for OG of 1.072. I am just starting to use software, but checking my IIPA recipe software agrees 1.073 (even set to 3gal boil). Checking this Total Domination IPA, it says 1.066. What am I missing?

 

[Ravenshead]

My bad. I had my batch size setting on 10 gallons. That means I calculated your IBUs wrong as well. You're looking at about 41 IBUs in your current beer.

Sorry, I haven't formulated extract beers in a while. 12 lbs of malt for an AG beer is reasonable amount for 5 gallons so it passed my "giggle test".

 

[FiddleTilDeath]

more hops = better, all the time, no matter what

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

more hops = better, all the time, no matter what

I love me some hops, but this statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[greenfrog5]

Just thought I'd follow-up on this one. This beer is carbed and I tried it yesterday. Remarkable that there IS hop flavor! It is by no means a heavy-hop IPA (like the beer it is cloned from), but there are now hops where there weren't before. I assume the carbonation is to credit for bringing these flavors up?

However, the beer DOES still taste like honey. A friend who tried it immediately volunteered this without being prompted. I assume it is the extract that is contributing to this. There is no honey in it, just standard stuff, DME, Dextros. Anything come to mind? Or just under hopped?

So, after reading up a lot more about partial boil hop utilization, it sounds like there are some conflicting opinions (some say no difference for smaller boils?), it seems that up to 2x the hops of a full boil recipe is about right. I brewed Ed Wort's Haus Pale this weekend, and simply doubled the hops. Its an experiment brew (to brew again for my Dad's visit in October who doesn't like hops so much), but I'd be fine with an over-hopped Pale this time around if it goes that way.

The IIPA I bottled this weekend tasted great, but again, probably not as hoppy as the recipe should be. Thanks for the guidance.

Aaron