DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters

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I am having a hell if a time here guys. Something is definitely wonky with my system, most likely the way I have it programmed. The ball valves all open when the machine is turned on. The pump doesn't stop running when the probes drop below the temp range. Someone please help. I finally figured out a way to give someone remote access to the unit I think... Help!!!!
 
has anyone considered one of these as an option for heating? may not fit considering the stainless coil used for the glycol

http://brewha.co/products/ulwd-electric-element

These work great to make your wort, but I would never add one to a fermentor. They would be a impossible to keep sanitary, and I would imagine they would have very adverse effects on the yeast while heating. I use flexwatt heaters wrapped around my sanke fermentors and they work amazing. Nice gentle heat, and scalable to the size of your tank. You can get them on ebay in rolls and you cut them to the size you need. They use very little power and you don't have to worry about cleaning them.
 
I am having a hell if a time here guys. Something is definitely wonky with my system, most likely the way I have it programmed. The ball valves all open when the machine is turned on. The pump doesn't stop running when the probes drop below the temp range. Someone please help. I finally figured out a way to give someone remote access to the unit I think... Help!!!!


Are you using PID (you shouldn't be)? You may want to set the hysteresis tighter to keep the fermentor in a tighter rangeBe sure also that you've not accidentally setup for heat rather than cool. Lastly, I think that the wiring to the driver board was incorrect in the original diagrams, so check out the pages I scanned and see how yours is wired. I believe that mine has the correct wiring written in.
Again I'm not much of an expert on this, and the guys at the ECC forum may be of more help.

TD



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These work great to make your wort, but I would never add one to a fermentor. They would be a impossible to keep sanitary, and I would imagine they would have very adverse effects on the yeast while heating. I use flexwatt heaters wrapped around my sanke fermentors and they work amazing. Nice gentle heat, and scalable to the size of your tank. You can get them on ebay in rolls and you cut them to the size you need. They use very little power and you don't have to worry about cleaning them.

In the BREWHA 3-in-1 vessel, the entire fermenter (including element) is sanitized by heat during the boil. It is very sanitary.

@parkerhd36 regarding using the element to regulate fermentation temperature, my understanding is that the main concern is that the intense (localized) heat of the element will adversely affect the yeast. My response would be that with the BREWHA Power Box, you are able to manually (the rheostat/dial on the side) turn the power way down so that the 5500W element is only producing ~500W. This would make it an ultra, ultra, ultra....low watt density element (less than 10W/square inch). I would suggest that if one had the power low enough, it would be sufficient to keep the fermenter warm, while not adversely affecting the yeast. And might also have the added benefit of rousing the yeast by creating slight upward currents in the fermenter (jacket also does this by introducing warm water at the bottom since the entrance is near the middle of the fermenter--tip of cone). I personally have always used warm water in the jacket but trials with the element in this capacity are planned.
 
I am having a hell if a time here guys. Something is definitely wonky with my system, most likely the way I have it programmed. The ball valves all open when the machine is turned on. The pump doesn't stop running when the probes drop below the temp range. Someone please help. I finally figured out a way to give someone remote access to the unit I think... Help!!!!


I think you have the driver board incorrectly wired. I had this issue too. I think that you need to connect the driver board ground to the 12 volt power supply negative terminal.

Tell me how your bcs is wired to power and ground connections, and tell me how your driver board is connected to the power ground and BCS terminals. I thought it was crazy and that it would blow up when I made that connection, but nothing happend and it was working properly after I did that. I will try to double check my wiring tonight, but that's what I recall. Remind me if you don't get another message about that.

I recall I posted these questions on the ECC forum, where you can search for posts by trickydick.

I think the original wiring diagrams were not correct for the driver board connections.

TD




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I think you have the driver board incorrectly wired. I had this issue too. I think that you need to connect the driver board ground to the 12 volt power supply negative terminal.

Tell me how your bcs is wired to power and ground connections, and tell me how your driver board is connected to the power ground and BCS terminals. I thought it was crazy and that it would blow up when I made that connection, but nothing happend and it was working properly after I did that. I will try to double check my wiring tonight, but that's what I recall. Remind me if you don't get another message about that.

I recall I posted these questions on the ECC forum, where you can search for posts by trickydick.

I think the original wiring diagrams were not correct for the driver board connections.

TD




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Ok, so I changed the ground wire from one of the group grounds to the 12v neg and it definitely did something. Lights on the driver board seem to be much brighter, and the ball valves seem to actuate a bit quicker.
That being said, all the ball valves still open when the system is first powered on. Will they close once a process is initiated, and then open when hysterisis temp is at the high limit? Could I somehow have them wired backwards (though I don't think this is it, as it seems to me that the BCS is telling them to open, right?). Thanks all. I am headed to work, but will try and reply throughout the night, as I am scheduled for fill tomorrow afternoon, so I somehow have to have this figured out by then, lol.
 
Also, I fixed the problem with the pump running all the time. I had to use REG0 and REG1 in my ladder logic to connect two groups of rungs, and I had REG0 programmed to auto pump from some earlier point for some reason.

Now the only problem is those ball valves auto opening....
 
Odd. These are the NC (Normally closed) variety of ball valves?

I had some strange behavior during testing that doesn't occur during operation.

Have you contacted any of the folks over at the ECC forum? It sounds like it could be a combination of problems, but that you're slowly tracking them down.

TD
 
Odd. These are the NC (Normally closed) variety of ball valves?

I had some strange behavior during testing that doesn't occur during operation.

Have you contacted any of the folks over at the ECC forum? It sounds like it could be a combination of problems, but that you're slowly tracking them down.

TD

Hmmm.....never really thought about the fact that there were valves that were *normally open* or *normally closed*....How do I find out?
 
Mine were doing the same thing initially because my driver board wasn't wired up properly.

Take at look at your valves for any markings lettering, etc. often there is an abbreviation N.O. Or N.C. To indicate which variety you have. You might also be able to track down the information from the place you bought them.

TD


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Just got done reading all 78 pages, and I'm definitely going to be building a prototype for my sankey fermentors, until I go the conical route. I have two questions that looks like no one asked about.

  1. Everyone is making a IC to place inside the fermenter for the glycol to regulate the fermentation temperature. I'm planning on warping the coil around the fermenter like a jacketed conical. I've seen others do this on other forums, but was just wondering why no one brought it up?
  2. I see people buying all this expensive TC fittings, but if your still using weldless fittings for some of the connections why even bother buying the TC? The weldless fittings still have threads so you still have to deal with that.
 
Just got done reading all 78 pages, and I'm definitely going to be building a prototype for my sankey fermentors, until I go the conical route. I have two questions that looks like no one asked about.



  1. Everyone is making a IC to place inside the fermenter for the glycol to regulate the fermentation temperature. I'm planning on warping the coil around the fermenter like a jacketed conical. I've seen others do this on other forums, but was just wondering why no one brought it up?
  2. I see people buying all this expensive TC fittings, but if your still using weldless fittings for some of the connections why even bother buying the TC? The weldless fittings still have threads so you still have to deal with that.


I used SS immersion coil for the coolant which is submerged into the fermenting beer.
Since you are using a metal sanke, you'd certainly be able to place the coolant coils on the outside. Plastic would likely not conduct the heat adequately through the wall of the tank to permit doing this, which I assume is why it hasn't been brought up.

TC fittings are sexy that's why. Why use them at all on a plastic fermenter? Who knows. Maybe someday I'll step up to stainless conicals.

TD



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For a sanke, please don't butcher it up with a half-assed copper coil mangled and soldered around the outside like others have done. Do yourself a favor and get one of these: http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html with the expansion panel. I have 4 of them and they are a dream. Plus if you go oldschool with a carboy for a smaller batch you can still use them for that! With my ac glycol chiller and a little reflectex around the kegs I can cold crash effortlessly.
 
For a sanke, please don't butcher it up with a half-assed copper coil mangled and soldered around the outside like others have done. Do yourself a favor and get one of these: http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html with the expansion panel. I have 4 of them and they are a dream. Plus if you go oldschool with a carboy for a smaller batch you can still use them for that! With my ac glycol chiller and a little reflectex around the kegs I can cold crash effortlessly.


I'm glad to know you like yours. I just ordered one of their jackets for a 15 gal. corny I have to go along with the glycol chiller I'm building. People certainly do make the copper coils work, but I didn't want to bother with that. These jackets just looked a lot easier. The only concerns I have are how well it works (sounds like it works well) and how long it will hold up vs a copper coil. At $60, I hope it holds up well.
 
For a sanke, please don't butcher it up with a half-assed copper coil mangled and soldered around the outside like others have done. Do yourself a favor and get one of these: http://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html with the expansion panel. I have 4 of them and they are a dream. Plus if you go oldschool with a carboy for a smaller batch you can still use them for that! With my ac glycol chiller and a little reflectex around the kegs I can cold crash effortlessly.

Hell yes!!!! So glad that you informed me about this product, first time I've seen it surprisingly since I'be been searching a lot on the topic.

One other question, since I'll be using the glycol outside of the fermenting beer, is it fine to just go with the glycol antifreeze for RV's version that you can find at Walmart and etc? I figured that since it won't be coming in contact with the beer, I wouldn't have to use the food grade version and I could same some money.
 
The owner, Steve, is a great guy to deal with, and is very helpful with questions and suggestions. It is so sad that such a great product isn't in everyone's arsenal, but I've been telling anyone who will listen! I don't remember how I found them, but ordered one within 5 min of stumbling onto the site. When I got it I tested it out with a cooler of ice water and a carboy of warm water. It took less than an hour to bring it down from 90 to 60 before they reached equilibrium. Not really sure what the exact time was because I was busy on the website ordering 3 more!

Yes, the RV antifreeze is what you want. Some have different slush points. I found some at Home Depot that is suppose to go to 0* before slushing. With a ac unit glycol chiller you want to have about 15* or so difference between your set point and slushing point, so that it doesn't freeze up your ac coil. I normally run it at about 40 or so during fermentation with a hysteresis on the controller of about 15*. Then for cold crashing I bump it down to 20-25. I do that mainly for energy conservation, even though these things don't use that much power. You also lessen any undershoots that might occur with such a cold source. I ended up using vinyl tubing to run to the jacket as it was cheaper, but it does get pretty stiff at those temps. Also when running it that cold I would highly recommend tubing clamps. The connectors worked fine when I used a fridge for the reservoir, but with the super cold temps the tubing slipped off. Someday I will start a new thread with my fermentation endeavors!
 
The owner, Steve, is a great guy to deal with, and is very helpful with questions and suggestions. It is so sad that such a great product isn't in everyone's arsenal, but I've been telling anyone who will listen! I don't remember how I found them, but ordered one within 5 min of stumbling onto the site. When I got it I tested it out with a cooler of ice water and a carboy of warm water. It took less than an hour to bring it down from 90 to 60 before they reached equilibrium. Not really sure what the exact time was because I was busy on the website ordering 3 more!

Yes, the RV antifreeze is what you want. Some have different slush points. I found some at Home Depot that is suppose to go to 0* before slushing. With a ac unit glycol chiller you want to have about 15* or so difference between your set point and slushing point, so that it doesn't freeze up your ac coil. I normally run it at about 40 or so during fermentation with a hysteresis on the controller of about 15*. Then for cold crashing I bump it down to 20-25. I do that mainly for energy conservation, even though these things don't use that much power. You also lessen any undershoots that might occur with such a cold source. I ended up using vinyl tubing to run to the jacket as it was cheaper, but it does get pretty stiff at those temps. Also when running it that cold I would highly recommend tubing clamps. The connectors worked fine when I used a fridge for the reservoir, but with the super cold temps the tubing slipped off. Someday I will start a new thread with my fermentation endeavors!

Do you have the Expansion Link? If so does the coolant run through that, and if not, how do you get an even cooling temperature around your fermentor?
 
The extension does not, but I'm not worried about that. In an active fermentation the yeast are moving things around quite a bit. The ss keg also conducts the heat/cold around pretty well. I would recommend using a thermowell down the center of the keg. Normally during fermentation it is only on for a couple minutes at a time.
 
The extension does not, but I'm not worried about that. In an active fermentation the yeast are moving things around quite a bit. The ss keg also conducts the heat/cold around pretty well. I would recommend using a thermowell down the center of the keg. Normally during fermentation it is only on for a couple minutes at a time.

Yea I have the Sanke Fermentor Kit from Brewers Hardware so I already have a thermowell. I forgot to ask, do you also use a heat supply? Right now I just use one of those Blue Brew Belts, and it works great, but I didn't know if you could using something like that underneath the cooling jacket.
 
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I made my own using a roll of flex watt (like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-Watt-Heat-Tape-Reptile-Pet-Terrarium-Cage-Egg-Incubator-Heater-Warmer-/230921106672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item35c3f874f0) that I cut down do the sizes I needed. I used the 7" so it would fit in between the ridges of the keg easier. I think I used 3' for each? No issues with the jacket, I actually use it to hold my flexwatt on by wrapping it on the outside of it and velcroing the whole thing together.

And if you haven't seen this thread yet, it will really blow your mind: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f258/stc-1000-a-464348/

I slowly ramp up to about 72 after the initial 3 days of regular temps and it finishes your beer out in commercial time. POW, and just like that you as a homebrewer can have commercial grade temperature control. All I need now is a bright tank, but that would be just silly!
 
I made my own using a roll of flex watt (like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-Watt-H...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item35c3f874f0) that I cut down do the sizes I needed. I used the 7" so it would fit in between the ridges of the keg easier. I think I used 3' for each? No issues with the jacket, I actually use it to hold my flexwatt on by wrapping it on the outside of it and velcroing the whole thing together.

And if you haven't seen this thread yet, it will really blow your mind: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f258/stc-1000-a-464348/

I slowly ramp up to about 72 after the initial 3 days of regular temps and it finishes your beer out in commercial time. POW, and just like that you as a homebrewer can have commercial grade temperature control. All I need now is a bright tank, but that would be just silly!

Yea I saw that thread. I have three of those STC-1000, but didn't feel like trying to flash the firmware on those. I also have one of the https://brewbit.com which work great.
 
I would love to see some pics of any completed panels. Im about to start drilling the front of mine and would like to see what directions some of you have went with it.
 
I would love to see some pics of any completed panels. Im about to start drilling the front of mine and would like to see what directions some of you have went with it.

Here is one. I cheated and had a friend with a body shop and plasma cutter make all the holes for me. He painted it too at cost!
Go Spartans!

TD

IMG_1678.jpg
 
Yeah. Bad game against buckeyes dashed any playoff hopes. Oh well. Maybe next year...

Yeah, but at least you will make it to a bowl game. Those of us just a touch south of East Landfill wont even make that. Though at least we don't have to wait until the new year to start the coach search lol
 
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It appears OSCSYS no longer sells the 8-channel driver boards, like not even listed on their website. I need a back up; anyone have any ideas where to pick one up?
 
You could try to operate without the driver board. I do believe that it is only a simple amplifier, though I am unsure if it is a voltage, amperage, or power amplifier. I think the reason for it being needed was that the BCS could not operate more than one ball valve at the same time?? If you are only going to run one fermentation at a time, I would give it a whirl without the driver board.

At any rate, if you have any basic skills, you could build your own driver board IF you knew the circuit diagram and type of transistors used on the original design. You might ask OCSYS if they would be willing to send you a circuit diagram and tell you the specs on the solid state components.

From there you could buy parts at radio shack, either with an etched board or a breadboard type.

Alternately, you could simply build your own power amplifier. I do suspect the board is a power amplifier (amplifies both current and voltage). Lastly, you could tap the power supply which should have more than sufficient ability to operate all three valves at once, and design a SSR circuit controlled by the BCS, as is already done with the pumps, but with low voltage, low wattage DC SSRs wired to the BCS output, switching power from the dc power supply to the ball valves.

Really I think any of those options would work. The SSR would likely be the simplest.

TD
 
Has anyone who built one of these setups that used the hydraulic disconnects end up having corrosion on the steel disconnects? Im wondering if I should go brass or steel
 
I have noticed that there is some tarnishing on the hydraulic QD's. They can polish right up though - so far. The PEG solution I'm using, food grade, is pre-diluted and has blue tint for leak detection and also has anti-corrosive additives.

I'm researching the move to Stainless Conicals that I could adapt to fit the lids with the same coils. I'm not sure if the compression fittings for the coils can be re-used though.

TD
 
Im sure the compression fittings can be reused, might need to replace the internal collar though. I had to search for this but I mentioned that I was awaiting some of the BruGear fermentors and you were the one who expressed interest in them. I finally got them and they seem good so far however I have only dressed them up. If you want some pictures I can send them.
 
Im sure the compression fittings can be reused, might need to replace the internal collar though. I had to search for this but I mentioned that I was awaiting some of the BruGear fermentors and you were the one who expressed interest in them. I finally got them and they seem good so far however I have only dressed them up. If you want some pictures I can send them.

You bet!! Especially pics of the lid, and the racking arm. What size did you buy?
I would like something easy to adapt to my setup with the coolant coils through the lid. I might need to find a sanitary welder but if I can do wellness all the better.
What's the overall diameter? My holes in the deck are 19" may need to fashion some collars or have legs bent. Are those legs welded?

Thanks
TD
 
Has anyone who built one of these setups that used the hydraulic disconnects end up having corrosion on the steel disconnects? Im wondering if I should go brass or steel

I've have 3 plastic conicals working based on this design for a year now. I use hydraulic quick disconnects to connect the glycol lines to the coil. Worked well for a while, but now all 6 of them are rusted and basically useless. If I take one off, the fluid comes out so there's no longer a 'dry' disconnect.

I've been using RV antifreeze since day one. I'm thinking that maybe not using the better PG with inhibitors in it might be the source of my issue.
 
Still haven't applied that weatherstrip to get airtight seal. Been too busy. I am wondering if I might want to go stainless. Trying to think of a way to get a sanitary mount for the coil on the lid that is also removable.
The new FTSS product by the company that makes that stainless steel brewbucket seems to have a valid concept that I am going to try to copy. Need to get a detailed look at it.

TD
 
Well, the OP seems to be defunct on HBT, I think he moved or something.

What updates did you want? Still using the system. Still not airtight. Minor corrosion on the hydraulic QDS some folks are getting. I think that if you make the hoses connecting the lids to the ball valves and manifold long enough, such that you could close the lid and just leave the coolant lines attached, that the QDs could be eliminated. The pressure lock issue would also be eliminated (when there is cold coolant inside the stainless coil and the QDs are disconnected it is a sealed system, and as the coolant warms it wil lock up the QD so you cannot get them re connected. ).
Lid sealing is problematic. Long term sanitization is still a question I have given the lip on the conical tops, and the lack of internal sanitary fittings and the threaded NPT nipples for instance. I have several beers on tap that taste great from these conicals. I split into two kegs (10G batches) and will see if the second keg (at room temp) is sour or funky when I tap. So far though, so good.
I think to do it again, I might consider using stainless conicals wrapped tightly with a copper coil then insulated and just run the glycol on the outside similar to jacketed conicals.
The FTSS system looks pretty slick too..

TD
 
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