DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters

[JohnnyBe]

So I am in the process of mimicking your build. I would like to double it though. Which of the components, especially in the BCS portion need to be doubled up? I have already purchased the BCS-462 to allow me temp inputs for 6 conicals, just curious about what would actually require doubling the parts. Thanks!!

I am no expert on this topic and packet can probably answer this better but knowing what little I do about glycol systems you are going to possibly need a larger reservoir. However this is going to be dictated by your ambient temperature, lagers vs ales, AC unit BTU's, insulation, etc.

 

[packet]

Packet, Where did you say you got the thermometers from again (that fit into the thermowells)? Any other issues with those motorized ball valves? Planning to order those today. TD

And also, those valves are huge AC/DC 9-24V ?

Thermometers are directly from brewershardware:

http://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Temperature-Sensors/

No real issues with the valves other than one being DOA. I'd order a spare or two since they're relatively cheap and take a while to get replacements though.

There are two different ones I ended up ordering. This one:
CWX series 1/2'' NPT SS304 valve,12VDC,CR04 normal closed type electric valve.

and this one:
http://www.tf-valvefittings.com/goods-125.html

The main difference is that the CWX doesn't have a position indicator.

 

[packet]

If you really wanted to heat as well you could use a BCS 462 instead and then be able to heat a cool since it has 8 temperature inputs and can control 18 outputs. Another option would be to use their Digi16 expansion card along with the 460 since it will add 12 additional outputs and 4 inputs.

Actually, the BCS-462 has the same limitation as the 460 with limiting probes associated to outputs. I raised the issue with the company that makes it but they didn't seem to think it was a problem (idiotic if you ask me). So, the only way around it is with some programming.

 

[packet]

So I am in the process of mimicking your build. I would like to double it though. Which of the components, especially in the BCS portion need to be doubled up? I have already purchased the BCS-462 to allow me temp inputs for 6 conicals, just curious about what would actually require doubling the parts. Thanks!!

For the BCS, you'd need extra outputs for the ball vales. Other than that, everything else should stay the same. You might want to consider a larger reservoir, but the AC unit should be able to handle the added load.

I'd doublecheck with the people that make the BCS about how many probes can associate with outputs though. There's a hard limit that may limit how many conicals you can have under a single BCS.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks for the help!

I have begun getting some parts in, but I need to wait now until the frame is completed, and I am told the welder is backed up with work. Once the frame is done, I'm going to order the bulk of the parts. For now just going to nab some of those valves from China.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks for the info on the valves.

So you really need three valves, one for each of the conicals. Seems having an indicator would be handy, so I think I'm just going to get all three with indicator.
Some look like they work with a range of different voltages, but I think ill just pick the one that uses 12 V. I'll buy 1-2 extra just in case.

Thanks again.

TD

 

[packet]

Thanks for the info on the valves.

So you really need three valves, one for each of the conicals. Seems having an indicator would be handy, so I think I'm just going to get all three with indicator.
Some look like they work with a range of different voltages, but I think ill just pick the one that uses 12 V. I'll buy 1-2 extra just in case.

Thanks again.

TD

I'd buy the one that works on a voltage range. Believe me, the voltages can be over a rather large range and it's nice to not have to deal with an issue of a ball valve that won't work because you're supplying 10.5V instead of the 12V it wants.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'd buy the one that works on a voltage range. Believe me, the voltages can be over a rather large range and it's nice to not have to deal with an issue of a ball valve that won't work because you're supplying 10.5V instead of the 12V it wants.

How did you end up ordering on their website? The shipping and address options seems strange, unlike most domestic websites. It won't let me pick my city from the drop down menu, so I just put my entire address on the address field.
Just curious if you had any issues. Did you use DHL?

TD

 

[packet]

How did you end up ordering on their website? The shipping and address options seems strange, unlike most domestic websites. It won't let me pick my city from the drop down menu, so I just put my entire address on the address field.
Just curious if you had any issues. Did you use DHL?

TD

Yeah it's a bit of a weird process. I just put in my address info and sent them the payment via paypal. They contacted me the next day and the valves showed up a couple weeks later. The valves are made to order so it takes them a few days to make them.

 

[TrickyDick]

Yeah it's a bit of a weird process. I just put in my address info and sent them the payment via paypal. They contacted me the next day and the valves showed up a couple weeks later. The valves are made to order so it takes them a few days to make them.

Well they now have my money so I'll keep my fingers crossed..

TD

 

[packet]

I ordered from them twice and didn't have any issues. I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thermometers are directly from brewershardware: http://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Temperature-Sensors/ No real issues with the valves other than one being DOA. I'd order a spare or two since they're relatively cheap and take a while to get replacements though. There are two different ones I ended up ordering. This one: CWX series 1/2'' NPT SS304 valve,12VDC,CR04 normal closed type electric valve. and this one: http://www.tf-valvefittings.com/goods-125.html The main difference is that the CWX doesn't have a position indicator.

Ok the valves are en route.

The thermowells and thermometers from brewers hardware. Can you clarify which specific part numbers you used? I don't think I could find. It might be explained in the website write up for the conicals I suppose, but thought I ask. I think I read 12" thermowells?

Slowly but surely the parts are coming in, though I've yet to order the real expensive stuff. Hopefully the stand will be finished by end of the year. I'll need to buy the tanks for final cutting of the metal plate they will fit into. After the new year I will probably get into the expensive components and SS fittings. This is an expensive build for sure, but still far less expensive than glycol jackets SS fermenters. And if one tank goes bad, scratched, they only cost $60 each, plus the elbow grease needed to swap out all the fittings.

TD

 

[packet]

Ok the valves are en route.

The thermowells and thermometers from brewers hardware. Can you clarify which specific part numbers you used? I don't think I could find. It might be explained in the website write up for the conicals I suppose, but thought I ask. I think I read 12" thermowells?

Slowly but surely the parts are coming in, though I've yet to order the real expensive stuff. Hopefully the stand will be finished by end of the year. I'll need to buy the tanks for final cutting of the metal plate they will fit into. After the new year I will probably get into the expensive components and SS fittings. This is an expensive build for sure, but still far less expensive than glycol jackets SS fermenters. And if one tank goes bad, scratched, they only cost $60 each, plus the elbow grease needed to swap out all the fittings.

TD

I use 12" thermowell for the glycol reservoir (just drilled a hole in the lid and stuck the thermowell through). I had tried to go in through the side (below the water line) and it leaks. even with a weldless fitting, the side of the cooler bends too easily to get a decent seal.

These are the ones I used in the conicals:
http://www.brewershardware.com/6-Weldless-Thermowell.html

Parts numbers and links for all of that should be on the website.

 

[TrickyDick]

I use 12" thermowell for the glycol reservoir (just drilled a hole in the lid and stuck the thermowell through). I had tried to go in through the side (below the water line) and it leaks. even with a weldless fitting, the side of the cooler bends too easily to get a decent seal. These are the ones I used in the conicals: http://www.brewershardware.com/6-Weldless-Thermowell.html Parts numbers and links for all of that should be on the website.

Gotcha. Thanks. I assume you use the temp probes the same length as the thermocouples. The temp probes weren't on he here.

Thanks

 

[swanronson]

Packet, I have most everything built and put together, now just trying to figure out how the hell to rig up the control enclosure. Would you be able to provide me with a basic set of instructions as to how the components act together and/or how they should all be wired together? Didn't realize how complete my lack of electrical knowledge was until I tried to figure this all out. I greatly appreciate it.

P.s.- I am doing 6 total tanks and using the BCS 462 if that makes any difference. Thanks again

 

[wasitim]

I too have taken the plunge! Doing the ebrewery with 20 gallon Stout Kettles as well as this incredible temp control system. Kettles coming in next week, ebrew stuff all here, conicals here, temp control stuff ordered today. Sectioned off a section of the basement and the build has begun.

The one piece I haven't been able to order is the 8 channel driver board. Looks like it's out of stock quite often? Have you folks been able to order one and/or, is there something different that could be used?

 

[packet]

I too have taken the plunge! Doing the ebrewery with 20 gallon Stout Kettles as well as this incredible temp control system. Kettles coming in next week, ebrew stuff all here, conicals here, temp control stuff ordered today. Sectioned off a section of the basement and the build has begun.

The one piece I haven't been able to order is the 8 channel driver board. Looks like it's out of stock quite often? Have you folks been able to order one and/or, is there something different that could be used?

Send them an email and ask when it'll be back in stock. Same thing happened to me when I had to order a replacement board. Took about 2 weeks to come back in stock.

 

[wasitim]

I'll give them a shout today.

If I didn't get the board, I guess the option is additional ssr's for the ball valves, ey?

 

[packet]

I'll give them a shout today.

If I didn't get the board, I guess the option is additional ssr's for the ball valves, ey?

Pretty much. However, you'll need some pretty low powered SSRs. I had some spare 40A ones that I had lying around from a previous build and building out an electric brewery. Add too many of those and the BCS can't support the voltage required to switch the SSR on. Then nothing works. So, go with a 10A relay in that case.

 

[packet]

So it appears there are at least 5 or 6 of you currently building one of these judging by the wiring diagram requests I've received. I had some time today and have started to put a few of the diagrams up here:

http://plasticconical.com/controller-part-2

 

[packet]

Actually, I had enough time to make all of the diagrams. You guys should have everything you need to build one of these now. Let me know if anything is unclear.

 

[wasitim]

The diagrams are awesome. Thanks so much for taking the time out of your hectic schedule.

 

[packet]

Glad to help. Hopefully you guys should be able to finish the project now.

 

[FreddyMar3]

Any examplesyet on how guys are going about heating the reservoir instead of chilling it? As they say in Game of Thrones, winter is coming...

 

[packet]

Any examplesyet on how guys are going about heating the reservoir instead of chilling it? As they say in Game of Thrones, winter is coming...

You'd need a bunch of heat tape, a 10A relay board, some outlets, and an expansion board for the BCS.

Hook 3 outputs up to the 10A relay, the associated outputs on the relay to the outlets, and the outlets to the heat tape (which is wrapped around the conicals).

Now the problem comes when you want to use those outputs. You can't associate all the outputs with the temp probe. So, you have to do some hacks with the logic of the BCS. Here's what someone responded to me when I asked about it on the ECC forum:

"You can use logic within process/state exit conditions based on the other two temp probes. Using this, you could use a couple of states to toggle your chilling by setting temperature values as the exit conditions."

 

[TrickyDick]

You could go low tech and hook up a separate temp controller to heat wraps for each fermenter, using the controls on the temp controller and bypassing entirely the BCS and glycol unit.

TD

 

[wasitim]

@Packet, what's the reason for hardwiring the air conditioner to be always on? Why not skip that step and just leave the switches in the full on position?

 

[packet]

@Packet, what's the reason for hardwiring the air conditioner to be always on? Why not skip that step and just leave the switches in the full on position?

The point is to bypass the internal thermostat. They're horribly inaccurate and you have to rip the A/C apart for this project anyways. Might as well splice three wires to bypass it and reduce the risk of a spoiled batch.

 

[rmajor55]

Couldn't you just use a submersible heater in the glycol reservoir to heat the glycol and circulate warm glycol. Should only need 1 output from the BCS and a relay. Unless I'm missing something, that should work. I don't have my build done yet but that was how I was going to do it. Thoughts.

 

[packet]

Couldn't you just use a submersible heater in the glycol reservoir to heat the glycol and circulate warm glycol. Should only need 1 output from the BCS and a relay. Unless I'm missing something, that should work. I don't have my build done yet but that was how I was going to do it. Thoughts.

You can do that, but you lose some flexibility. If ambient temp is say 55-60 and you're fermenting a lager in one conical and an ale in the other, you'll need both heating and cooling.

Also, at the end of fermentation, it's really nice to be able to cold crash in the conical, drop out the trub, and then keg. If you're heating the glycol, that's no longer possible.

 

[lcat45]

Anyone have any heating solutions they would highly recommend from having used them...thanks

 

[FreddyMar3]

I am building a single conical system so I think I am going to give the submersible heater a try.

 

[FreddyMar3]

Thinking of just using this guy as the heating element. Should work right?

 

[packet]

Try using one made for an aquarium, they should be relatively cheap. You want a relatively long heating element.

 

[FreddyMar3]

On second look, this might be better suited for the job.

 

[RadicalEd]

I'm working with a local company on heat tape .

 

[FreddyMar3]

Try using one made for an aquarium, they should be relatively cheap. You want a relatively long heating element.

Packet, missed this before I had posted the other heater. Looks like the aquarium heater is the way to go.

This got me thinking about temperature stratification. Temp stratifications isn't really an issue while the yeast are very active but towards the beginning and end of fermentation, I believe it could be a problem.

Right now my conical is set up so that the coil is very close to the bottom. This will work well in the winter because the heating action of the coil will cause a thermal current upwards. In the summer, however, when I am chilling, I am afraid that the cool wort around the coil will stratify towards the bottom. If my coil were up high in the conical, this would not be a problem.

Ideally the coil would be adjustable in someway. I suppose I could use a pipe cutter and cut off the upright arms of the coil so that I can position it up high in the conical in the warm months, then use some compression fittings to add in the cut off lengths of tube to extend it down in the winter months.

Has anyone else addressed these concerns? I've read the entire thread but that was a while ago so I'm sorry if this was already addressed.

 

[packet]

The SS coil I use is like 9-10" tall and is mounted directly above the racking port. So, the bulk of the wort is relatively close to the coils. I've lagered, cold crashed, and stored beer in the conical at 38 deg F for another 3 weeks or so until I got around to kegging it without an issue.

 

[FreddyMar3]

I see, I might have ordered my coil a bit to wide (10")... I'd say it is only about 3 inches tall.

 

[TrickyDick]

Seems to me that heating or cooling might induce convection currents in the fermenters, plus the yeast activity might cause things to move about.

That said, I have read in the YEAST book, that there is often a temperature differential, especially in the conical part of many fermenters, as much as 10 degrees. This may be less in these smaller fermenters than the big commercial ones.

TD