DIPA does not have desired Citrus flavor

[DonnyBenét]

Hey guys,

So I brewed my first BIAB DIPA 3g 2 weeks ago and it was bottling day yesterday. OG was 1.071 and FG 1.013 (brewfather predicted 1.012), 7.6% ABV, 63 IBU.

The sample I tasted was... Bland.. It was bitter like a 63 IBU but there was no tropical fruit flavor at all like I wanted, even though I dry-hopped about 4oz of hops.

Recipe is:

5.5 lb pilsen malt
2.5lb vienna
0.0313 lbs carapils

Hops:
0.8 oz Chinook @60

Whirlpool:

0.5 oz El Dorado
0.5 oz Galaxy
0.5 oz Vic Secret

Dry hopped 7 days:
1.7 oz Galaxy
1 oz El Dorado
1 oz Vic Secret

Safale US-05

Now... I completely wasted the whirlpool additions because I steeped for about 2-3mins because I had no idea how to whirlpool.

But shouldn't the 4oz of dry hops give me the tropical fruit profile I was looking for? Is it too early to tell and I should just wait for conditioning to complete?

Thanks!

 

[dwhite60]

Don't judge it until it's had three weeks in the bottle, minimum. Probably no waste on the whirlpool hops. Steeping them a bit isn't a problem.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Dgallo]

**edited***
Reread your post and miss interpreted what you said the first time.

Time will tell but you picked more tropical fruit forward hops than citrusy. That being said the biggest mistake for any brewer just starting out brewing hoppy beers is oxidation. Research what it is and it’s impact on beers especially hoppy beers and modify your practices as needed.

 

[downzero]

Enjoy your current beer for now and try some Citra next time.

63 IBU for an imperial IPA seems a bit bland. Regular IPA is 50-70 ish, I would have shot for more like 80 IBU.

 

[Dgallo]

Enjoy your current beer for now and try some Citra next time.

63 IBU for an imperial IPA seems a bit bland. Regular IPA is 50-70 ish, I would have shot for more like 80 IBU.

Unless you’re going for a NEIIPA than he’s right in the money. I can get 63 ibus with 2 oz of ctz at 60. Or I can get 63 ibus in a beer that has 14 oz of hops in it. The ibus have no indication of how bland a beer will be, only of how bitter it will be.

 

[DonnyBenét]

Yeah I meant tropical fruit... No idea why I wrote Citrus lol!

 

[DonnyBenét]

Don't judge it until it's had three weeks in the bottle, minimum. Probably no waste on the whirlpool hops. Steeping them a bit isn't a problem.

All the Best,
D. White

So it is entirely possible that conditioning in the bottle would bring out tropical fruit flavor?

 

[Dgallo]

So it is entirely possible that conditioning in the bottle would bring out tropical fruit flavor?

I’ll let @dwhite60 answer the direct question but a proper carb goes a long way

 

[dwhite60]

What Dgallo said.

Can take a while for everything to blend. I have a strong ale I bottled over three months ago. It continues to improve.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[downzero]

Unless you’re going for a NEIIPA than he’s right in the money. I can get 63 ibus with 2 oz of ctz at 60. Or I can get 63 ibus in a beer that has 14 oz of hops in it. The ibus have no indication of how bland a beer will be, only of how bitter it will be.

By bland I mean unbalanced for the gravity and alcohol content. Everyone has their preferences for bitterness. I actually prefer lower bitterness (APA is my favorite style) and so I shoot for lower ABV and 40 IBU instead. Of course there are no hard and fast rules, that's why people have been making beer for 4,000+ years and there's still no consensus on much of anything.

 

[rburrelli]

I disagree. There is a ton of consensus about brewing. That is why styles are defined. We just don’t have to follow those “rules” strictly. And yes, processes are always being debated and refined to our means.

But, to just reduce the hops because you don’t like bitterness is not the way to achieve that goal. Many recipes are built with high hopping rates that are offset by sweetness or malt so don’t taste as bitter.

 

[downzero]

I disagree. There is a ton of consensus about brewing. That is why styles are defined. We just don’t have to follow those “rules” strictly. And yes, processes are always being debated and refined to our means.

But, to just reduce the hops because you don’t like bitterness is not the way to achieve that goal. Many recipes are built with high hopping rates that are offset by sweetness or malt so don’t taste as bitter.

Well if we're talking about style guidelines, the guidelines specify 60-120 IBU for "Double IPA." I'm really not sure who you're responding to or arguing with, but I never said to "just" reduce the hops nor that I didn't like bitterness. The point is that shooting for the bottom of the guideline for a beer style is going to result in less hop bitterness than what is expected when you tell the person you're serving it to that it's a "Double IPA." If someone served me a 6% ABV beer at 60 IBU and called it "American IPA," the beer would probably fit what I was expecting. A boozy beer at the same bitterness, all else equal, would likely taste unbalanced and bland to me.

The relationship between gravity and bitterness is what creates a beer style, along with a basic idea of what the malt bill should be for that style.

 

[Dgallo]

Well if we're talking about style guidelines, the guidelines specify 60-120 IBU for "Double IPA." I'm really not sure who you're responding to or arguing with, but I never said to "just" reduce the hops nor that I didn't like bitterness. The point is that shooting for the bottom of the guideline for a beer style is going to result in less hop bitterness than what is expected when you tell the person you're serving it to that it's a "Double IPA." If someone served me a 6% ABV beer at 60 IBU and called it "American IPA," the beer would probably fit what I was expecting. A boozy beer at the same bitterness, all else equal, would likely taste unbalanced and bland to me.

The relationship between gravity and bitterness is what creates a beer style, along with a basic idea of what the malt bill should be for that style.

I just think you’re very much making generalization. Ipa are specifically unbalanced beers, that’s the point of the style is to be hopforward. You may prefer a more bitter beer and that’s fine, I also enjoy a great west coast, high IBU IPA. But a double ipa that that has roughly 78 GU and 60 BU will actually have more balance. I think the word you use that is causing people to question is the word “bland”. Bland literally means lacking flavor. 90% of all the beers Treehouse, Other Half, Trillium, Equilibrium, Sloop, & Hill Farmstead put out have less than 65Ibus for double IPAS and they are currently consider the top for producing IPAs and have more hop flavor than the grand majority. So ibu have nothing to do with an ipa being bland as I stated before, so you just need to find a better adjective to describe what you mean.

Back to the op, if your beer is still lacking flavor and aroma after 2 weeks (3 tops) I would believe your culprit is oxidation. If it darkens in color than you know for sure it’s oxidation.

 

[ba-brewer]

I was thinking you might be light on the amount of hops, but then seen it was only a 3gal batch. One thing that helped me get more hop flavor and aroma was to buy hops from vendors that list the harvest date and buy current harvest year if possible.

I also feel the folks that write the hop descriptions use some poetic license, it could be a personal problem but I very seldom get all of the flavors listed.

A longer whirlpool might of helped to get more hop flavor. I know many do only a 60min bittering hop and just whirlpool hops but they also go pretty heavy on the whirlpool additions. I personally like to use some hops in the 10 to 15min range.

How long and when did you dry hop?

 

[downzero]

I just think you’re very much making generalization. Ipa are specifically unbalanced beers, that’s the point of the style is to be hopforward. You may prefer a more bitter beer and that’s fine, I also enjoy a great west coast, high IBU IPA. But a double ipa that that has roughly 78 GU and 60 BU will actually have more balance. I think the word you use that is causing people to question is the word “bland”. Bland literally means lacking flavor. 90% of all the beers Treehouse, Other Half, Trillium, Equilibrium, Sloop, & Hill Farmstead put out have less than 65Ibus for double IPAS and they are currently consider the top for producing IPAs and have more hop flavor than the grand majority. So ibu have nothing to do with an ipa being bland as I stated before, so you just need to find a better adjective to describe what you mean.

Back to the op, if your beer is still lacking flavor and aroma after 2 weeks (3 tops) I would believe your culprit is oxidation. If it darkens in color than you know for sure it’s oxidation.

I don't think IPA is a deliberately unbalanced style at all. In fact, I think anyone who thinks that doesn't know what "balance" even means. American IPA has ~30-50% more alcohol than the less hop forward American styles to balance out what is unquestionably a hop forward presence. It does not follow that we abandon all principles of balance just because we make a hop forward beer. The ratio of gravity to bitterness may be tilted in favor of bitterness, but that is true for ALL American ales that originated elsewhere. Our wheats are cleaner and more bitter, our IPA is certainly more bitter and more aroma and flavor focused, etc.

I went to a brewery recently and had a 12 IBU "American wheat." The standard for such a beer is 15-30 IBU. It was boring and uninteresting, lacking the hop bite and taste appropriate for the style. I thought it was boring and bland, tasteless if you prefer. Maybe there are better adjectives to describe that. I suppose "wrong" fits, too.

Double IPA at 60 IBU is weak on the bitterness. Turn up the bitterness to balance the 8-9% alcohol and then we're talking. Otherwise it's just IPA.

 

[Dgallo]

I don't think IPA is a deliberately unbalanced style at all. In fact, I think anyone who thinks that doesn't know what "balance" even means. American IPA has ~30-50% more alcohol than the less hop forward American styles to balance out what is unquestionably a hop forward presence. It does not follow that we abandon all principles of balance just because we make a hop forward beer. The ratio of gravity to bitterness may be tilted in favor of bitterness, but that is true for ALL American ales that originated elsewhere. Our wheats are cleaner and more bitter, our IPA is certainly more bitter and more aroma and flavor focused, etc.

I went to a brewery recently and had a 12 IBU "American wheat." The standard for such a beer is 15-30 IBU. It was boring and uninteresting, lacking the hop bite and taste appropriate for the style. I thought it was boring and bland, tasteless if you prefer. Maybe there are better adjectives to describe that. I suppose "wrong" fits, too.

Double IPA at 60 IBU is weak on the bitterness. Turn up the bitterness to balance the 8-9% alcohol and then we're talking. Otherwise it's just IPA.

After reading this response I realize there is no longer a reason to provide any info or advice to you. Brew with the principals you believe to be true, it’s your hb afterall. If it hits your preferences that’s all that matters

 

[CascadesBrewer]

But shouldn't the 4oz of dry hops give me the tropical fruit profile I was looking for? Is it too early to tell and I should just wait for conditioning to complete?

How did the beer turn out after it carbed? I find that carbonation is needed to make the hop aroma pop and it is surprising how much flavor is tied to aroma.