Confused on back sweetening and carbonation

[nivaguk]

Hi All,

I am on my first attempt at making cider. It has been fermenting for 3 weeks. I did a taste test today and it is very dry/sour so i want to back sweeten and carbonate.

Now this is where i have gotten confused I am going to add apple juice before bottling so my question is if i add an extra 1 gal of juice to a 5 gal batch will i still need carbonation drops during bottling?

Thanks in advance :rockin:

 

[progmac]

if apple juice has an OG of 1.050, that means a gallon in 5 gallons will add 10 points to the gravity, which is bottle bomb territory. you want to add about 3-4 points to your gravity (similar to what priming sugar would do), so at most you would want 1/3 gallon per 5 gallon batch. don't use any additional priming sugar.

those numbers were off the cuff and i probably omitted something important to the calculation, so don't blame me for bombs or flatness or use my numbers for anything whatsoever.

 

[Shooter]

What you are attempting to do is not easy. Many people use an artificial sweetner to avoid producing bottle bombs. The other option is to use sorbate and sulphites to disable the yeast and then backsweeten. The problem then becomes how to carbonate in the bottle.

 

[nivaguk]

Cheers guys,

I knew this wouldn't be easy. Would artificial sweetener such a Splenda produce a funky taste?

 

[CiderRules]

It's so easy. I wonder why everyone it's always suggesting sorbate/sulfites or artificial sweeteners over back sweetening and pasteurization. Just sweeten up with juice/concentrate to taste (remember, juice will dilute your abv a lot more than concentrate. Though tastes better in the end) and follow the directions in the sticky. All you need is a nice size stock pot from wall mart and a floating thermometer helps. Probably cost me $9 for both of those and it is definitely worth it.

 

[nivaguk]

Cheers Cider rules i wondered that until i read how to pasteurize.

It sounds very easy to do, but the problem i will have is i am using Coopers Plastic PET bottles and i have read that they melt a little.

 

[progmac]

Cheers Cider rules i wondered that until i read how to pasteurize.

It sounds very easy to do, but the problem i will have is i am using Coopers Plastic PET bottles and i have read that they melt a little.

If you have plastic bottles, you can just refrigerate them when they are hard to stop fermentation. The downside is that you have to keep them cold or fermentation will begin again.

 

[nivaguk]

Hi Progmac,

That's the issue i have i can't pasteurize due to them being plastic bottles and i don't have the fridge space for 40 bottles. I need another way of killing the yeast when carbonated, Any suggestions?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Based on your bottles and lack of refrigerator space. Your only option is to ferment dry, prime and bottle. Then when you are ready to consume one, sweeten it in your glass.

There's no way to back sweeten a cider and carbonate it in a PET bottles without force carbing from a keg.

 

[Shooter]

It's so easy. I wonder why everyone it's always suggesting sorbate/sulfites or artificial sweeteners over back sweetening and pasteurization. Just sweeten up with juice/concentrate to taste (remember, juice will dilute your abv a lot more than concentrate. Though tastes better in the end) and follow the directions in the sticky. All you need is a nice size stock pot from wall mart and a floating thermometer helps. Probably cost me $9 for both of those and it is definitely worth it.

If you have plastic bottles, you can just refrigerate them when they are hard to stop fermentation. The downside is that you have to keep them cold or fermentation will begin again.

Sure, these both work as well.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Sure, these both work as well.

Unfortunately, the OP is using PET Bottles and mentioned they don't have enough space in their fridge for 2 cases of bottles.

I still say sweetening when you serve is your best option. Just think of it as mixing cocktails with a low ABV apple wine. A splash of Sprite or Apple Juice to sweeten it up.

 

[CiderRules]

Cheers Cider rules i wondered that until i read how to pasteurize.

It sounds very easy to do, but the problem i will have is i am using Coopers Plastic PET bottles and i have read that they melt a little.

Didn't see that you had PET bottles... they wouldn't melt in 180 degree water would they? I always put a wash cloth in the bottom of the pot to keep them from touching the hot parts. Otherwise you will have to go dry or use lactose /splenda/xylitol as already said.

 

[sashurlow]

I hate to bring this up, but save up for a kegging system. 150 dollars for a much much easier process. You can either treat it like a gigantic bottle and add priming sugar (without the risk of bottle bombs) or kill off the yeast and force carb it. You can even put in a bottle after its been in the keg (see the sticky in the bottling/kegging forum). Its much easier and you have more options.
Just throwing that out there...

 

[nivaguk]

Didn't see that you had PET bottles... they wouldn't melt in 180 degree water would they?

Not sure I suppose the only way to find out is to test with an empty bottle.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Even 180ºF heat might cause the crowns/caps to deform and loose pressure. I would try and avoid PET pasteurization, but it's always fun to experiment.

I agree with sashurlow that kegging is a great solution. I was happy to say goodbye to priming and bottling. But I guess if you don't have enough fridge space for 40+ bottles, a 19L keg probably won't fit either