Cloning New England Brewing Company's Gandhi-bot

[WWJPD]

^^THIS!

I got lucky and scored a 4pk of Gandhi-bot yesterday. The Beer Nazis at the store only allow one per person, even though they "got a ton of it" according to the clerk. I'm going to try to brew this next weekend and hope I can save one for a side-by-side.

Good luck saving that for a month

My clone I tested last night was good, but off a bit taste wise, close smell. I do think it needs a bit more time to carb and mature before passing final judgement.

 

[WWJPD]

So mine finished carbing and I have to say it's great. I was going to compare against the real thing, but I pulled an older 4pk from the basement and both my wife and I thought it was off. I looked at the pic from my compare last week and there is clearly a big difference in color, not just taste.

First pic is a side by side from last week before my clone was ready. Clone is on the right.


This pic is from tonight with the different batch. Mine is on the left.


Whatever the case is, this recipe is great and I'll be making it again. Thanks to Remmy and Nuke for starting the thread and their initial tries.

 

[Hop_Head_from_Connecticut]

Dam dude you have ghandi bot glasses. They have them at the brewery?

 

[Hop_Head_from_Connecticut]

Oh yeah what's up with the bananas standing up on their own?

 

[WWJPD]

Yup, since my wife is a beer fan & especially NEBCO, I usually have to get 2 of everything. They have Gandhi-bot, 668, and two other glass types at the brewery. And the bananas are on a hook. Since the wife I and often share beers at the table, most of my Untappd checkins were from that position and we usually have bananas, so friends started using #bananasandbeer

I'm planning to hit up the brewery tomorrow to get a fresh growler to compare against.

On a side note, I brewed up a different IPA yesterday with some of the Gandhi-bot yeast I got from the brewery. It's been going crazy.

 

[KindofBlues71]

Since the wife I and often share beers at the table, most of my Untappd checkins were from that position and we usually have bananas, so friends started using #bananasandbeer

On a side note, I brewed up a different IPA yesterday with some of the Gandhi-bot yeast I got from the brewery. It's been going crazy.

LOL, that makes me think of the Ween song Bananas and Blow...

Any info about the yeast they use, and what beers they use it in? Could it be propagated from their cans or do they bottle with a different yeast?

My wife works near the brewery and is willing to pick up some growlers for me. I've been checking their twitter feed to see when they have Gandhi-bot on tap but they always seem to sell out quickly and I don't want to send my wife there for nothing. Any tips on the best times to score a growler of G-b, or even Fuzzy Baby Ducks?

 

[drez77]

LOL, that makes me think of the Ween song Bananas and Blow...

Any info about the yeast they use, and what beers they use it in? Could it be propagated from their cans or do they bottle with a different yeast?

My wife works near the brewery and is willing to pick up some growlers for me. I've been checking their twitter feed to see when they have Gandhi-bot on tap but they always seem to sell out quickly and I don't want to send my wife there for nothing. Any tips on the best times to score a growler of G-b, or even Fuzzy Baby Ducks?

They update FB often if you use that with what they have on tap. This is from the 25th

It looks like Gandhi-Bot, Sea Hag, 668, and Fat 10-er #7 are on for today.

Fuzzy Baby Ducks is not brewed often and when it goes on tap there is usually a long wait. Gandhi is much, much easier to get.

 

[Remmy]

I prefer Sea Hag over Gandhi as almost every store in CT has 6-packs of Hag available. Gandhi tastes better, but it's not worth going ape-**** for if you can't find it. Sea Hag is a great substitute and I'd drink Hag every damn day.

The "Gandhi-yeast" = WLP001.

 

[coldcrash]

This one's next on my brew schedule--going to try to fit in a brew day Friday.

I'll probably scale it to 7 gals to account for all the hop mass.

Nuke, is this the current/ closest iteration that you have in post #1?

I thought I read in one of your posts that you were considering cutting the hops back a bit? Any other updates or recommendations?

Thanks fellas. One of my favorite DIPAs--hope I can do it justice!

 

[nukebrewer]

This one's next on my brew schedule--going to try to fit in a brew day Friday.

I'll probably scale it to 7 gals to account for all the hop mass.

Nuke, is this the current/ closest iteration that you have in post #1?

I thought I read in one of your posts that you were considering cutting the hops back a bit? Any other updates or recommendations?

Thanks fellas. One of my favorite DIPAs--hope I can do it justice!

Sorry I didn't reply to this until now. Hope it's not too late. The recipe in the first post is what I brewed last time I brewed it. No other definitive updates or recommendations from me, but the next time I brew this I'll probably use pils malt instead of US 2-row and probably dial the hops back to about 10 oz or so, most of them < 20 min, whirlpool and dry hop. I'd check some other posts from folks here as it seems there's been some developments since I last brewed it.

 

[coldcrash]

Sorry I didn't reply to this until now. Hope it's not too late. The recipe in the first post is what I brewed last time I brewed it. No other definitive updates or recommendations from me, but the next time I brew this I'll probably use pils malt instead of US 2-row and probably dial the hops back to about 10 oz or so, most of them < 20 min, whirlpool and dry hop. I'd check some other posts from folks here as it seems there's been some developments since I last brewed it.

Yeah I've been following the thread for a while so I've seen and appreciate everyone's input. Was just curious where you were w it since you've done at least two iterations.

Brewing this tomorrow, following the recipe in post #1, but w Pilsner malt (don't have any 2 row), 12oz of hops, and Cal ale yeast, because well...

The "Gandhi-yeast" = WLP001.

thanks for the work you guys have done on this!

 

[Remmy]

I'd stick with pils and caramunich. You can dial this in and end up at 8.8% ABV.

You will need around 12 ounces of hops to get the aroma. I got really close with my hop schedule (15 ounces total). LoloMT7 tried mine.

 

[coldcrash]

I'd stick with pils and caramunich. You can dial this in and end up at 8.8% ABV.

You will need around 12 ounces of hops to get the aroma. I got really close with my hop schedule (15 ounces total). LoloMT7 tried mine.

Thanks Remmy. I have C40 on hand so that's what I'll go with today. Might go w caramunich next time though.

What was your hop schedule?

In my clone attempt, I used 1 oz. Columbus to bitter and 13 oz. of hops (Columbus & Simcoe) for flavor/aroma/steep and dry-hop. 7 of the remaining 13 oz. were Simcoe.

This ^ is all I could find.

I'm planning this:

60 min 1oz Columbus
20 min 1oz each Columbus /Simcoe
10 min 1 oz each
5 min 1oz each
Whirlpool 1oz each

Two dry hop additions (4 days each), both 1oz Columbus/ .5oz Simcoe

 

[Remmy]

Thanks Remmy. I have C40 on hand so that's what I'll go with today. Might go w caramunich next time though.

What was your hop schedule?





This ^ is all I could find.

I'm planning this:

60 min 1oz Columbus
20 min 1oz each Columbus /Simcoe
10 min 1 oz each
5 min 1oz each
Whirlpool 1oz each

Two dry hop additions (4 days each), both 1oz Columbus/ .5oz Simcoe

Just wrote myself a note so when I get home, I can check my recipe give you the exact hop schedule and amount of hops I used. I thought it was 15.

 

[Remmy]

1 oz. Columbus 60 min
1 oz. Simcoe 10 min
2 oz. Columbus 5 min
2 oz. Simcoe 5 min
2 oz. Columbus 30 min steep
2 oz. Simcoe 30 min steep

Don't remember what ratio of Columbus to Simcoe I used for the dry-hop (I think it was 2:1 to give me a total of 13 ounces).

I had added 1 lb. of corn sugar at 10 minutes.

 

[NuclearRich]

I prefer Sea Hag over Gandhi as almost every store in CT has 6-packs of Hag available. Gandhi tastes better, but it's not worth going ape-**** for if you can't find it. Sea Hag is a great substitute and I'd drink Hag every damn day.

The "Gandhi-yeast" = WLP001.

true

and just to comment on culturing: while you could likely get some out of a can/growler of ghandi, you shouldnt. Dead tired yeast in a hostile 8.8%ABV environment. Not the most ideal, when its a common yeast. If you really wanted to culture it, I would use a can o Hag.

 

[WWJPD]

I mostly agree with Remmy that Sea Hag is damn good(I got a 6 yesterday) but I do find I like Gandhi better. However, it is getting harder and harder to get cans, even with the couple of beer shops that know me as a regular and set aside stuff for me. I'll continue to look for Gandhi, but not go crazy looking for it.

In regards to brewing it though... Yeast... if you are really lucky and go to the brewery a day when:

1. It's not busy
2. Rob is there
3. You are really polite
4. Bring santized mason jars
5. They have Gandhi in the fermentors

Rob might just give you a few jars if you ask nicely. I kept them in the fridge for a week and brought it to room temp for brewing day, shook it up and pitched it into my Pliny clone. Rob said 1 jar should be enough for a 5gal batch and he was right! It went crazy. I also used it for my Equinox IPA that's dry hopping now and harvested a few jars off of my Pliny clone.

I do think the hop bill is just about correct(and Rob said it was close for a 5gal batch,) but I think I'm going to brew 5gal again using 12lb German Pilsner malt instead of using extract as that's what they seem to use as a base malt. I probably won't get to that for a few months though.

 

[Remmy]

Most of these breweries around here use WLP001 for their IPAs. NEBCO for a fact uses Pils as a base malt on many of their beers - that's why they tend to taste very similar to each other. The beers there aren't complicated when it comes to grain bill. They're intensely-hopped and NEBCO does a great job of making tasty-ass beers that will knock you upside the head with hops.

 

[bizoneill]

I think I'm going to try this one soon. Here is what i got for the recipe from all the input on this thread. Let me know what you guys think!

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.066
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.085
Final Gravity: 1.020
ABV (standard): 8.53%
IBU (tinseth): 83.88
SRM (morey): 7.73

FERMENTABLES:
14.75 lb - American - Pilsner (88.1%)
1 lb - German - CaraMunich I (6%)
1 lb - Corn Sugar - Dextrose - (late addition @ 10 min.) (6%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 41.05
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.6
2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 13.86
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 16.37
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F
2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Decoction, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 19.69 qt
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 12 qt
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76.5%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 68 - 73 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

 

[LoloMT7]

Looks good I would guess that if you mash at 152 or less 150 maybe you should be able to get your FG down. IMO 1.020 is too high for the FG. Other than that though it looks good man. I agree with Remmy use Cara Munich instead of Crystal 40L.

 

[bizoneill]

Sounds good thanks for the input!

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

I would probably move an ounce of Columbus from 0 min to the dry hop to make sure the aroma has balls. But it looks fantastic! Cheers

 

[WWJPD]

I would probably move an ounce of Columbus from 0 min to the dry hop to make sure the aroma has balls. But it looks fantastic! Cheers

-not trying to threadjack-
PrinceOfThePoint, noticed your sig has FBD clones... How did they come out and care to share your recipe?

I brewed the all-grain Gandhi clone recipe from here last week. I'm going to dry hop tonight. Looks and smells great so far.

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

-not trying to threadjack-
PrinceOfThePoint, noticed your sig has FBD clones... How did they come out and care to share your recipe?

I brewed the all-grain Gandhi clone recipe from here last week. I'm going to dry hop tonight. Looks and smells great so far.

Awesome. The first FBD clone was only recently kegged so I can't give a full report. However, I used a fancy malt bill knowing it would not be true to a clone. It does have a godlike orange color though. The second clone recipe had a malt bill closer to what would be the real thing. For five gallons I just used:

11 lbs domestic Pilsner
8 oz. Crystal 20L
8 oz. Carapils

Mash @ 150, 75 min (dry beer)
Boil 90 min.

I know nothing about how the beer is made but given the ridiculous drinkability I am guessing at a hop-bursting schedule:

0.5 oz Citra @20
1.0 oz Citra @10
0.5 oz Citra @5
1.0 oz Citra @0
For 53 IBU
Add 1 tsp CaS04 (gypsum)

I think the key to the recipe is the dry hop... however that gets done. FBD is cloudy from dry hopped kegs (my guess). So I will add about 3 oz to the primary for 5-7 days then keg and add one more oz there. Or two..

Edit: The real FBD comes out around 6.2% by the way. I will let you know once I taste these clones.

Edit: Almost forgot... Used WLP001 of course with a 24 hour starter!

 

[bizoneill]

I would probably move an ounce of Columbus from 0 min to the dry hop to make sure the aroma has balls. But it looks fantastic! Cheers

Thanks!

Now I'm looking at this FBD recipe...

I'd really love to try to put together a Coriolis recipe... That is my favorite NEBCo beer! Love me some Nelson!

 

[bizoneill]

Awesome. The first FBD clone was only recently kegged so I can't give a full report. However, I used a fancy malt bill knowing it would not be true to a clone. It does have a godlike orange color though. The second clone recipe had a malt bill closer to what would be the real thing. For five gallons I just used:

11 lbs domestic Pilsner
8 oz. Crystal 20L
8 oz. Carapils

Mash @ 150, 75 min (dry beer)
Boil 90 min.

I know nothing about how the beer is made but given the ridiculous drinkability I am guessing at a hop-bursting schedule:

0.5 oz Citra @20
1.0 oz Citra @10
0.5 oz Citra @5
1.0 oz Citra @0
For 53 IBU
Add 1 tsp CaS04 (gypsum)

I think the key to the recipe is the dry hop... however that gets done. FBD is cloudy from dry hopped kegs (my guess). So I will add about 3 oz to the primary for 5-7 days then keg and add one more oz there. Or two..

Edit: The real FBD comes out around 6.2% by the way. I will let you know once I taste these clones.

Edit: Almost forgot... Used WLP001 of course with a 24 hour starter!

How did this turn out?

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

How did this turn out?

Well, the beer tastes quite delicious, however I'm not sold yet on the hop-bursting technique (i.e. getting all IBUs from late in the boil). Something about the flavor doesn't seem quite right. I also think the >50 IBUs is not true to FBD. That could be more the issue. Which brings me to my next problem...

Last Christmas I was very fortunate to drink lots of FBD... but that was it. I don't have a good vision of what I'm shooting for anymore.

Another issue, which I've heard mentioned several times before with other all-Citra homebrews, is that I just wasn't terribly impressed with the Citra I got from my LHBS. Don't get me wrong, it was dank and delicious, but the character never seemed to get to what I remember from FBD. Hopefully if/when I get a fresh batch from HopsDirect this fall we will try again.

Thanks for the interest, sorry I don't have better news. I've been busy lately but I'm going to sit down with a snifter of this tonight and see if I have anything else useful to tell you about it.

 

[bizoneill]

Well, the beer tastes quite delicious, however I'm not sold yet on the hop-bursting technique (i.e. getting all IBUs from late in the boil). Something about the flavor doesn't seem quite right. I also think the >50 IBUs is not true to FBD. That could be more the issue. Which brings me to my next problem...

Last Christmas I was very fortunate to drink lots of FBD... but that was it. I don't have a good vision of what I'm shooting for anymore.

Another issue, which I've heard mentioned several times before with other all-Citra homebrews, is that I just wasn't terribly impressed with the Citra I got from my LHBS. Don't get me wrong, it was dank and delicious, but the character never seemed to get to what I remember from FBD. Hopefully if/when I get a fresh batch from HopsDirect this fall we will try again.

Thanks for the interest, sorry I don't have better news. I've been busy lately but I'm going to sit down with a snifter of this tonight and see if I have anything else useful to tell you about it.

Thanks for the update! I brewed an all citra ipa last year and it was fantastic. It was one of my first ever brews so my efficiency was way low and it turned into a session ipa but the citra really popped! I had the last batch of FBD and it wasn't as good as the one back in January so I'm kinda in your boat now. I've been getting close to the body of some of the NEBCo beers but I'm still having trouble with the hop profiles. I also need to get a whirlpool going... But I did just brew a really nice wet hop ipa and the color is really getting close to Gandhi. Check it out.

It almost reminds me of Fat-10-er #8 though...

 

[PrinceOfThePoint]

That looks beautiful. Love the NEBCo haze. My Gandhi clone was a failure due to a crappy crush at my LHBS, but I think the color could have been close. Unfortunately I moved to NH from CT about 15 months ago and have hardly gotten to drink any Bot! And thus haven't been able to do a color comparison. Tragic.

Also, the all-Citra beer I made just isn't on the FBD track so I'm going to try a different recipe format next time.

 

[Hop_Head_from_Connecticut]

I think I'm going to try this one soon. Here is what i got for the recipe from all the input on this thread. Let me know what you guys think!



Brew Method: All Grain

Style Name: Imperial IPA

Boil Time: 60 min

Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)

Boil Size: 7 gallons

Boil Gravity: 1.066

Efficiency: 80% (brew house)



STATS:

Original Gravity: 1.085

Final Gravity: 1.020

ABV (standard): 8.53%

IBU (tinseth): 83.88

SRM (morey): 7.73



FERMENTABLES:

14.75 lb - American - Pilsner (88.1%)

1 lb - German - CaraMunich I (6%)

1 lb - Corn Sugar - Dextrose - (late addition @ 10 min.) (6%)



HOPS:

1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 41.05

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.6

2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 13.86

2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 16.37

2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F

2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days



MASH GUIDELINES:

1) Decoction, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 19.69 qt

2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 12 qt

Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb



YEAST:

White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001

Starter: Yes

Form: Liquid

Attenuation (avg): 76.5%

Flocculation: Medium

Optimum Temp: 68 - 73 F

Fermentation Temp: 65 F

Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

This recipe came out fantastic bizoneill. Great job

 

[Hop_Head_from_Connecticut]

Cheerz

 

[bizoneill]

Thanks for brewing that one I haven't had a chance to take a crack at it yet! LOL! What do you think?

I think I'm going to try this one soon. Here is what i got for the recipe from all the input on this thread. Let me know what you guys think!



Brew Method: All Grain

Style Name: Imperial IPA

Boil Time: 60 min

Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)

Boil Size: 7 gallons

Boil Gravity: 1.066

Efficiency: 80% (brew house)



STATS:

Original Gravity: 1.085

Final Gravity: 1.020

ABV (standard): 8.53%

IBU (tinseth): 83.88

SRM (morey): 7.73



FERMENTABLES:

14.75 lb - American - Pilsner (88.1%)

1 lb - German - CaraMunich I (6%)

1 lb - Corn Sugar - Dextrose - (late addition @ 10 min.) (6%)



HOPS:

1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 41.05

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.6

2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 13.86

2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 16.37

2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F

2 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days



MASH GUIDELINES:

1) Decoction, Temp: 152 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 19.69 qt

2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 12 qt

Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb



YEAST:

White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001

Starter: Yes

Form: Liquid

Attenuation (avg): 76.5%

Flocculation: Medium

Optimum Temp: 68 - 73 F

Fermentation Temp: 65 F

Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

This recipe came out fantastic bizoneill. Great job

 

[KindofBlues71]

Any problems with only boiling Pilsner malt for 60 minutes?

 

[nukebrewer]

Any problems with only boiling Pilsner malt for 60 minutes?

I've boiled wort made with large percentage of pilsner malt several times without issue.

 

[LoloMT7]

I've just read boil for 75 if you are worried about DMS.

 

[Hop_Head_from_Connecticut]

Thanks for brewing that one I haven't had a chance to take a crack at it yet! LOL! What do you think?

It taste real good, I did a side by side with the real thing, and it wasn't even close. I thought it was spot on until the taste test. It is a great brew. It reminds me of ghandi bot when I drink it alone. Cheerz

 

[chaindriven]

Hey guys is there anyway to convert this recipe over so I can do an extract brew??

 

[bizoneill]

It taste real good, I did a side by side with the real thing, and it wasn't even close. I thought it was spot on until the taste test. It is a great brew. It reminds me of ghandi bot when I drink it alone. Cheerz

Well recent batches of Gandhi have been blah compared to what it used to drink... Anything you think you'd change up? I want to brew this soon! Thanks for the update!

 

[Remmy]

Well recent batches of Gandhi have been blah compared to what it used to drink... Anything you think you'd change up? I want to brew this soon! Thanks for the update!

It's all in your head. Still tastes like it used to.

 

[NuclearRich]

It's all in your head. Still tastes like it used to.

Indeed. if anything is only gotten better. I can't get enough of it