Built in IC - Copper or Stainless, 25' or 50'

[milldoggy]

All,
I am going to install a built in IC in my BK and was wondering if copper would be ok? Stainless will probably be easier to clean, but copper conducts heat much faster. Is there another reason to go SS? Boiling 60/90 minutes ok for cooper? I was thinking about using 50', but would 30 work, that way I can use 20 for my herms coil? I was planning on using 1/2" OD either way, unless 3/8" 25' would work for the herms coil(i already have this and would save me from buying another coil).

My end result will be a Ditches setup. I am thinking I should just go with 50' stainless in each to be safe. I was also thinking about installing using a flare fitting, instead of compression, any issues here?

Thanks!

 

[r8rphan]

IMO, the IC works great (mine's copper) but is a total PITA to have in the boil kettle... It gets in the way, is messy and a hassle.. I'm sick of it after only a few uses..... So I'm gonna build a gravity fed CFC and be done with it.... It's going to be a flat system, built into and hidden in my wooden brew stand... If necessary, I can add a pump later..

As far as cleaning your IC goes, you're just running cooling water in it, thus meaning you only have to clean the outside.. which is a piece of cake.. so go copper because it's cheaper and conducts heat away from your wort faster...

I use 50' of 3/8" copper tubing, and with the ice cold water that comes from my system in the winter, I'm cooling 10G of wort to pitching temp in about 23 mins...

 

[milldoggy]

been debating on the morebeer CFC. For 189, it is only twice as much as 50' of stainless. I just like whirl pooling and leaving the trub cone in the BK. I have the BK all welded for whirlpooling and a built in IC, figured I would try it.

 

[r8rphan]

Mine will be 'all' copper (1/2 wort drain, encased in 3/4" copper water channel), and will come in right aorund $100.. 27-30 foot of CFC...

IMO, the IC makes it harder to whirlpool.. It's in the way... That's one of the reasons I want it out...

A lot of people are content with IC's though...

 

[milldoggy]

I guess I should add that I have two chugger pumps and will be using a pump to whirlpool. I am following Kals Electric brewery built. I was just thinking about using a IC and whirlpooling instead of the CFC.

 

[r8rphan]

Far be it from me to talk you out of it or into another way.. I'm just throwing out my thoughts out on the matter..

I know nothing compared to the majority around here...

That being said, there's nothing to keep you from using the pumps to whirlpool and cool via CFC all in one... ie run the wort through the CFC and back into the kettle to whirlpool.. Keep doing it until you are at temp to dump into fermenter... This is exactly what I will do, when/if I add a pump to my system...

 

[milldoggy]

hmmm, interesting, sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

now I just need to find out if 25' 3/8" copper is good enough for a herms coil, if so, I do not have to buy anything else. I am initially using a cooler as a MLT, so I probably will not lose much heat, but I will be switching to a larger pot in the future.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

hmmm, interesting, sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

now I just need to find out if 25' 3/8" copper is good enough for a herms coil, if so, I do not have to buy anything else. I am initially using a cooler as a MLT, so I probably will not lose much heat, but I will be switching to a larger pot in the future.

25' is fine for a HERMS coil. That's what I'm using. The thing is, you're mash is most likely at 150-160 anyways, so raising it another 10 degrees won't take much.

I run a system like the DITCHES2 with one pump. I bring my strike water to temp in the MLT, then add my grains. At the same time I'm bringing the strike water up, I've also got the HLT full of water and raising it to whatever mash temp I need. I then recirculate through the coil. After mashing, I batch sparge with water from the HLT. Once my boil is done (HLT empty at this point if I've calculated water correctly), I run the boiling wort through the herms coil again to sanitize it. At this point, I fill my HLT with ice water and let it start cooling. It takes a little extra time, but I get by with one pump and one coil, so it saves money.

If my HLT isn't empty while I'm boiling, I empty my grains from the MLT, then transfer the remaining water. I bring that water to a boil and put the lid on my mash for a few minutes to steam clean it. I don't recirculate the boil since I think it's useless and I've never had scorching.

 

[r8rphan]

The main reason I'm even considering recirculating the wort, is to have 'even' temperature in the BK before dumping into the fermenter... I've found that there is a radical difference in temperature in the wort at the top of the BK compared to that at the bottom when using an IC...

Now, my gravity fed CFC should take care of that, but the recirc also provides for powered Whirlpooling..

I'm going to try it with a gravity fed CFC, manually whirlpooling, with Bobby's SS mesh sock as a trub filter.... If I'm happy with that, then great..

If not, then I'll consider adding a pump, doing the recirc and all that...

 

[wildwest450]

The main reason I'm even considering recirculating the wort, is to have 'even' temperature in the BK before dumping into the fermenter... I've found that there is a radical difference in temperature in the wort at the top of the BK compared to that at the bottom when using an IC...

Are you stirring? If so, there shouldn't be a radical difference.

 

[Cubslover]

What about a tube in shell style heat exchanger?

 

[milldoggy]

Edit - Quick search and I found people have built there

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/shell-tube-heat-exchanger-122655/

 

[ScubaSteve]

Are you stirring? If so, there shouldn't be a radical difference.

+1, I think whirlpools are overrated. If you're stirring or agitating the wort somehow while you chill, you're good. It accomplishes the same thing. The trub concentration in the center is a moot point if you put a filter AFTER the kettle....like putting your outlet hose in a mesh bag or adding a filter to a funnel. so go ahead and add an IC, just be sure to make the diameter as wide as possible so you have room. Also, SS is probably a better option for it's durability. Copper will nick and dent over time, especially if you are stirring. Most folks just chop a SS IC from midwestsupplies.com

 

[Mista_Sparkle]

i wouldn't worry much about the conductivity of copper vs stainless. Though the copper is a better conductor, you are mostly limited by convective resistance. If you consider the same length coil, you will still have the same high convective resistance, leading to a very similar heat transfer rate.

It really depends on how much time you want to spend dealing with cleaning/copper oxides or whatever in your beer

 

[milldoggy]

I am digging the shell and tube idea. Something I could easily build and it looks like a canon

 

[r8rphan]

+1, I think whirlpools are overrated. If you're stirring or agitating the wort somehow while you chill, you're good. It accomplishes the same thing. The trub concentration in the center is a moot point if you put a filter AFTER the kettle....like putting your outlet hose in a mesh bag or adding a filter to a funnel. so go ahead and add an IC, just be sure to make the diameter as wide as possible so you have room. Also, SS is probably a better option for it's durability. Copper will nick and dent over time, especially if you are stirring. Most folks just chop a SS IC from midwestsupplies.com

I think it will all be a moot point once I build my flat gravity flow CFC.... Between that and a decent in kettle trub filter, most of my issues should be dealt with.. and as stated, I can always add an additional filter on the output of the chiller...

 

[SankePankey]

Well, I was one of those people who argued that SS coils were as good as Copper ones a few months ago. Alas, I was wrong.

My 3/8" 50' SS coil chills 15 gallons down in over one hour.... with constant stirring or recirculating.

The problem with not having the faster transfer of heat with copper occurs when the temp differential is closer together. Yeah the SS coil can get 212 down to 180 in 8 mins, but to get from 90 to 68 is for-freakin-ever...

I never tried a copper one, but my SS one is being retired to my starter batches.