Brewtarget 1.2.2 - Free Open Source Brewing Software

[rocketman768]

Thanks for all the responses and time. I tend to over think things and then kick myself in the @$$ when I realize it is no where near that hard. To calculate boil off amount does this has to be done with wort or can it be just "water"? I rough guessed what my boil off rate was, and input everything from the recipe I posted and the OG was high by .005 and the FG was high by .002... ideas?

No prob.

Measuring the boil-off rate with water is perfectly fine. Just be aware that things like humidity and the temperature of the place where you do the boiling affects boil off, so it's not going to be exactly constant from batch to batch.

Would you mind posting the recipe ingredients and everything here so I can see if the OG/FG are right? If you have already entered the recipe in brewtarget, you can just click Tools->Recipe to Clipboard and then paste it here.

 

[jvcjbl]

No prob.

Measuring the boil-off rate with water is perfectly fine. Just be aware that things like humidity and the temperature of the place where you do the boiling affects boil off, so it's not going to be exactly constant from batch to batch.

Would you mind posting the recipe ingredients and everything here so I can see if the OG/FG are right? If you have already entered the recipe in brewtarget, you can just click Tools->Recipe to Clipboard and then paste it here.

I didn't save the recipe.. I just exited out. Here is the information from the kit

INGREDIENTS:
8 1/2 lbs. amber malt extract
1 1/2 lb. domestic special pale malt
1 lb. dark crystal malt
1/4 lb. Biscuit malt
1/4 lb. chocolate malt
1 oz. Warrior hops (bittering)
1 oz. Simcoe hops (flavoring)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (finishing)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (dry hop)
1 pkg. Burton water salts
Yeast: Dried - 1 pkg. Safale US-05 or Nottingham ale yeast
Liquid - WhiteLabs California or California V or Wyeast #1056, #1272)
1 pkg. Bru-Vigor (yeast food)
3/4 cup corn sugar (priming)

 

[WildGingerBrewing]

Hey Rocketman, please answer a question for me. When hops are added to a recipe they only calculate IBU's if "boil" is chosen. There is also no "flavor" choice. Is the program only calculating hops based on bittering, or more than 30 min left in the boil? O should I be listing all of my hops as "boil" for proper calculation? This is one thing that has me confused about the program.

 

[Hermit]

Hey Rocketman, please answer a question for me. When hops are added to a recipe they only calculate IBU's if "boil" is chosen. There is also no "flavor" choice. Is the program only calculating hops based on bittering, or more than 30 min left in the boil? O should I be listing all of my hops as "boil" for proper calculation? This is one thing that has me confused about the program.

List them as boil AND list the proper boil time.

 

[WildGingerBrewing]

List them as boil AND list the proper boil time.

Ok, then why are all of the other options there?

 

[Hermit]

Ok, then why are all of the other options there?

The program has a brewday mode. You need to account for everything you do. Hops that aren't boiled won't add IBU's.

 

[jvcjbl]

Is there a way to get the recipe off of brewtarget in a format that isn't all jumbled up?

 

[rocketman768]

Is there a way to get the recipe off of brewtarget in a format that isn't all jumbled up?

Tools->Copy to Clipboard ?

 

[rocketman768]

I didn't save the recipe.. I just exited out. Here is the information from the kit

INGREDIENTS:
8 1/2 lbs. amber malt extract
1 1/2 lb. domestic special pale malt
1 lb. dark crystal malt
1/4 lb. Biscuit malt
1/4 lb. chocolate malt
1 oz. Warrior hops (bittering)
1 oz. Simcoe hops (flavoring)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (finishing)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (dry hop)
1 pkg. Burton water salts
Yeast: Dried - 1 pkg. Safale US-05 or Nottingham ale yeast
Liquid - WhiteLabs California or California V or Wyeast #1056, #1272)
1 pkg. Bru-Vigor (yeast food)
3/4 cup corn sugar (priming)

Gotcha. The problem is that the other recipe is probably using a lower yield for the steeped grain. In 1.2.2, brewtarget doesn't adjust the yield downwards when steeping, but that is about to change with 1.2.3. For now, if you steep a grain, just cut the yield of that grain in half.

 

[JustinW]

Hi all,

I am quite possibly doing something wrong, but when I go to the brewday instructions, step 0 has the third ingredient listed twice. It seems to happen when the last ingredient is something that doesn't get mashed...in this case its dememera sugar.

Here's my recipe:
Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 5.250 lb Yes No 79%% 2 L
Chocolate Malt (US) Grain 4.000 oz Yes No 60%% 350 L
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L Grain 2.000 lb Yes No 74%% 80 L
Dememera Sugar Sugar 1.000 lb No No 100%% 2 L
Total grain: 8.500 lb

And here's step 0 of the instructions:
0) Add 5.250 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US, 4.000 oz Chocolate Malt (US), 2.000 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L, 2.000 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L, to the mash tun.

I'm using the latest version of the trunk code in the svn repository...I just checked out the latest build tonight and compiled it about an hour ago. This was happening with my previous build also. I don't remember what version that was, but it was from several weeks ago.

Can anybody help?

Thanks,
Justin

 

[rocketman768]

Justin,

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll fix this right away!

 

[Wyrmwood]

This thing is awesome! I am new to brewing and looked at this a couple of months ago and was completely flummoxed! I came back to it today and have already drummed up a few recipes! It's amazing what a little vocabulary can do

**Hats off and glass raised!! **

If I was going to make a small suggestion for the next revision - how about an ingredient list to take to your lhbs (or your olbs). I know print drivers and the like can be a pain, so even a simple text list that you can copy/paste into your favorite text editor/ word processor would be sufficient to print off and run to the store!

Thanks again for all your hard work!

~Wyrmwood

 

[rocketman768]

**Hats off and glass raised!! **

Cool. Thanks!

If I was going to make a small suggestion for the next revision - how about an ingredient list to take to your lhbs (or your olbs). I know print drivers and the like can be a pain, so even a simple text list that you can copy/paste into your favorite text editor/ word processor would be sufficient to print off and run to the store!

The plaintext version is already there: Tools->Recipe to clipboard. Then, you can hit "paste" in notepad.
We've also got nicely formatted and native printing in the next version thanks to mikfire.

 

[Wyrmwood]

Cool. Thanks!



The plaintext version is already there: Tools->Recipe to clipboard. Then, you can hit "paste" in notepad.
We've also got nicely formatted and native printing in the next version thanks to mikfire.

Awesome!

 

[jvcjbl]

When is this next "update" coming out that will have the a more dedicated extract setup?

 

[Wyrmwood]

Gotcha. The problem is that the other recipe is probably using a lower yield for the steeped grain. In 1.2.2, brewtarget doesn't adjust the yield downwards when steeping, but that is about to change with 1.2.3. For now, if you steep a grain, just cut the yield of that grain in half.

I have been using this table
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
and entering 0 for anything that is -- and (PPG Steep / Max PPG) * Max Yield to get Steep Yield for everything else. Sound about right?

 

[vortexla]

Heya rocketman,

I think if you could add some calculators for strike temps, infusion temps, and stuff in the tools menu it would be awesome.

 

[dzlater]

I would like to see the quarts per pound ratio and the malt bill %'s, when you copy the recipe to the clip board.

 

[rocketman768]

I have been using this table
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
and entering 0 for anything that is -- and (PPG Steep / Max PPG) * Max Yield to get Steep Yield for everything else. Sound about right?

Correct.

I think if you could add some calculators for strike temps, infusion temps, and stuff in the tools menu it would be awesome.

Ok.

I would like to see the quarts per pound ratio and the malt bill %'s, when you copy the recipe to the clip board.

Got it.

 

[Wyrmwood]

I have been using this table
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
and entering 0 for anything that is -- and (PPG Steep / Max PPG) * Max Yield to get Steep Yield for everything else. Sound about right?

Does this still apply with 1.2.3, or is that steep setting doing this "under the hood"?

 

[rocketman768]

Does this still apply with 1.2.3, or is that steep setting doing this "under the hood"?

No need to do this in 1.2.3. Happens automatically.

 

[jvcjbl]

No need to do this in 1.2.3. Happens automatically.

Eagerly awaiting 1.2.3

 

[dzlater]

Not a big deal, but another thing I noticed.
If you have a fermentable that is not mashed, such as a sugar that is going into the kettle. When you copy recipe to clipboard it includes that in the "total grain"
it might be helpful if that could be listed separately, as a "kettle adjunct " or something?

 

[Wyrmwood]

I have been fine tuning several recipes and really digging how easy this tool makes it! I am also going to do a "mini-mash" on Sunday, and Brewtarget will help me gauge expected versus actual efficiency.

I do have one question though, what is the formula you are using for ABV? No matter what formula I use, if I enter the anticipated OG and FG Brewtarget states, my resulting ABV is always lower.

For example, a porter I have entered has an OG of 1.076 and an FG of 1.019. Using
ABV % = ((1.05 x (OG - TG))/TG)/0.79
I get 7.4%, but Brewtarget says ABV is 8.0%. If I use http://www.rooftopbrew.net/abv_calculator.php it's 7.6%, but I don't know what formula that site's using.

 

[rocketman768]

I have been fine tuning several recipes and really digging how easy this tool makes it! I am also going to do a "mini-mash" on Sunday, and Brewtarget will help me gauge expected versus actual efficiency.

I do have one question though, what is the formula you are using for ABV? No matter what formula I use, if I enter the anticipated OG and FG Brewtarget states, my resulting ABV is always lower.

For example, a porter I have entered has an OG of 1.076 and an FG of 1.019. Using
ABV % = ((1.05 x (OG - TG))/TG)/0.79
I get 7.4%, but Brewtarget says ABV is 8.0%. If I use any http://www.rooftopbrew.net/abv_calculator.php it's 7.6%, but I don't know what formula that site's using.

In 1.2.2 it is using Dave Miller's approximation
ABV = 130*(og-fg)
from The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing, 1988, Storey Communications.

I think your formula given above pretty much agrees with Miller's.

 

[Wyrmwood]

In 1.2.2 it is using Dave Miller's approximation
ABV = 130*(og-fg)
from The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing, 1988, Storey Communications.

Do you have a more accurate formula?

I am using 1.2.3
I've been using the one from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume#Beer
ABV = ((1.05 * (Starting SG – Final SG)) / Final SG) / 0.79 * 100

 

[rocketman768]

I am using 1.2.3

Ah yeah, there is a small issue with the current revision's calculation of ABV. Internally, it is first calculating ABW then converting to ABV, but ABW to ABV is not a very accurate conversion. Will fix this before the final release.

 

[Louie]

This is awesome, thanks for all the time you've put into this! I've been working off of trial Promash for about 3 years, with a bunch of random Excel files to supplement.....this brings it all together. Again, thanks!

I am having a hard time figuring out how to set up a mash..even after reading the manual...I've entered my equipment (5.25 batch, 7.25 preboil (yes, I do boil off 2gal/hr), plastic mash tun, 3 qts deadspace, etc., etc.). I only do batch sparges, with a single infusion to start, and a sparge addition after that (try to hold the runnings to equal volume, or as close as I can). How do I set this up? I've tried manually adding mash steps, using the mash designer, the mash wiz, and what comes out is basically nonsense (add 0 oz at 32 f when I tell it I want to hit a mash temp of 150 for an hour). Is there any additional reading I can do? If not, can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

 

[rocketman768]

This is awesome, thanks for all the time you've put into this! I've been working off of trial Promash for about 3 years, with a bunch of random Excel files to supplement.....this brings it all together. Again, thanks!

I am having a hard time figuring out how to set up a mash..even after reading the manual...I've entered my equipment (5.25 batch, 7.25 preboil (yes, I do boil off 2gal/hr), plastic mash tun, 3 qts deadspace, etc., etc.). I only do batch sparges, with a single infusion to start, and a sparge addition after that (try to hold the runnings to equal volume, or as close as I can). How do I set this up? I've tried manually adding mash steps, using the mash designer, the mash wiz, and what comes out is basically nonsense (add 0 oz at 32 f when I tell it I want to hit a mash temp of 150 for an hour). Is there any additional reading I can do? If not, can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

Just to make sure, you are entering the following "150 F" into the field for temperature (that's 1-5-0-space-F) right?

To me, the mash designer is the easiest to use. Start it, select infusion, put "150 F" as the temperature, then drag the infusion volume or temp slider where you want it. If you drag the temp slider, it will change the volume so that you hit 150 F, and if you drag the volume slider, it will change the temp slider. If for some reason this is not working, PM me and we'll get you straightened out.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I'm not sure if this is me or not but,
When copying a recipe to clip board and then pasting, I get: "Boil Time: 0.000 s:" Even though I have a boil time setup in my equipment. I'm not sure where it's grabbing that from.

Anytime I create/add a new recipe, it defaults to 70% eff. Can that be changed to a different default or pulled off the selected equipment page?

 

[gak27]

Rocketman,

A quick question about a feature that I know was mentioned as a possibility before but I truthfully haven't followed its status:

sometime in the past, someone suggested 'up' and 'down' arrows that could be used to move the ingredients up and down, rather than the current 'last added on the bottom' method; whatever happened to this idea (and apologies if this has already been discussed somewhere)...

 

[rocketman768]

I'm not sure if this is me or not but,
When copying a recipe to clip board and then pasting, I get: "Boil Time: 0.000 s:" Even though I have a boil time setup in my equipment. I'm not sure where it's grabbing that from.

It's just a bug in 1.2.2.

Anytime I create/add a new recipe, it defaults to 70% eff. Can that be changed to a different default or pulled off the selected equipment page?

Not right now. But could be a good feature.

sometime in the past, someone suggested 'up' and 'down' arrows that could be used to move the ingredients up and down, rather than the current 'last added on the bottom' method; whatever happened to this idea (and apologies if this has already been discussed somewhere)...

In the upcoming 1.2.3, all these lists are now sortable by column. So for example, you can sort hops by addition time or type or amount etc. Is that good you think?

 

[gak27]

In the upcoming 1.2.3, all these lists are now sortable by column. So for example, you can sort hops by addition time or type or amount etc. Is that good you think?

Sounds good to me...thanks!

 

[jvcjbl]

I input my exact recipe into BeerSmith and Brewtarget. Beersmith was spot on as far as OG & FG and ABV, etc while Brewtarget was off on OG by 6 points and a few on FG and ABV. Why the inconsistency?

 

[brettwasbtd]

I input my exact recipe into BeerSmith and Brewtarget. Beersmith was spot on as far as OG & FG and ABV, etc while Brewtarget was off on OG by 6 points and a few on FG and ABV. Why the inconsistency?

Most likely the default efficiency values for the grains you used and attenuation of your yeast. I think brew target takes the average of the yeasts attenuation range and uses that number to calculate FG. If you mash on the hot side you will have less attenuation, colder side and you will have more.

 

[mikfire]

I input my exact recipe into BeerSmith and Brewtarget. Beersmith was spot on as far as OG & FG and ABV, etc while Brewtarget was off on OG by 6 points and a few on FG and ABV. Why the inconsistency?

Could you do me a favor and export the recipe to XML and post it? I have heard about this behavior but haven't had time to make a test case for myself. I would like to figure out what the discrepancy is and, if required, fix it.

Thanks,
Mik

 

[jvcjbl]

Could you do me a favor and export the recipe to XML and post it? I have heard about this behavior but haven't had time to make a test case for myself. I would like to figure out what the discrepancy is and, if required, fix it.

Thanks,
Mik

**Brewtarget Recipe**

Firestone DBA Clone - American Amber Ale
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.250 gal
Boil Size: 6.500 gal
Boil Time: 1.000 hr
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.047
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.5%
Bitterness: 22.3 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 14 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L Grain 2.000 oz No No 72% 120 L
Light Malt Extract Extract 6.000 lb No No 78% 4 L
Caravienne Malt Grain 6.000 oz No No 74% 22 L
Chocolate Malt (US) Grain 2.000 oz No No 60% 350 L
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L Grain 10.000 oz No No 74% 80 L
Total grain: 7.250 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Kent Goldings 5.5% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min Pellet 3.9
Kent Goldings 5.5% 1.000 oz Boil 1.000 min Pellet 0.8
Kent Goldings 5.5% 1.000 oz Dry Hop 14.000 day Pellet 0.0
Willamette 5.0% 1.000 oz Boil 1.000 hr Pellet 17.6

Misc
================================================================================
Name Type Use Amount Time
Oak Chips Flavor Primary 2.000 oz 0.000 s
Oak Chips Flavor Secondary 1.000 oz 12.000 day

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - British Ale Ale Liquid 0.528 cup Primary


**Beersmith Recipe**

Firestone DBA Clone
American Amber Ale


Type: Extract
Date: 1/23/2011
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Brewer: Jason
Boil Size: 6.50 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon Extract Full Boil)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: -
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.6 %
6.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5.2 %
2.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.7 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.7 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 28.0 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.1 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 12.0 days) Misc
2.00 oz Oak Chips (Primary 10.0 days) Misc
6 lbs Light Malt Extract (4.0 SRM) Sugar 82.8 %
1 Pkgs British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: n/a
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: n/a
Bitterness: 34.2 IBU Calories: 235 cal/pint
Est Color: 14.3 SRM Color: Color

 

[rocketman768]

jvcjbl,

There is no way Beersmith is correct on this one. Let me formulate it by hand to demonstrate:

==Grains==
(2/16)*0.72 +(6/16)*0.74+(2/16)*0.70+(10/16)*.74
= 0.9175 lb of glucose (maximum)

==Sugars==
6*0.78 = 4.68 lb of glucose

==70% Efficiency==
0.9175*0.70 + 4.68 = 5.322 lb of glucose
(Efficiency is only applied to grains, not sugars)

==OG==
5.322 lb / 5.25 gal * 46 points/(lb*gal) = 46.6 points, i.e. 1.047.

You can do the same analysis with the Beersmith recipe and you will come up with 1.044 using their given yield % numbers. The only way to get an OG of 1.054 is to have at least 6.17 lb of glucose in the beer, since 6.17 lb / 5.25 gal * 46 points/(lb*gal) = 54 points, which is impossible with the given recipe.

Can anyone else find a problem here?

 

[jvcjbl]

jvcjbl,

There is no way Beersmith is correct on this one. Let me formulate it by hand to demonstrate:

==Grains==
(2/16)*0.72 +(6/16)*0.74+(2/16)*0.70+(10/16)*.74
= 0.9175 lb of glucose (maximum)

==Sugars==
6*0.78 = 4.68 lb of glucose

==70% Efficiency==
0.9175*0.70 + 4.68 = 5.322 lb of glucose
(Efficiency is only applied to grains, not sugars)

==OG==
5.322 lb / 5.25 gal * 46 points/(lb*gal) = 46.6 points, i.e. 1.047.

You can do the same analysis with the Beersmith recipe and you will come up with 1.044 using their given yield % numbers. The only way to get an OG of 1.054 is to have at least 6.17 lb of glucose in the beer, since 6.17 lb / 5.25 gal * 46 points/(lb*gal) = 54 points, which is impossible with the given recipe.

Can anyone else find a problem here?

I have a recipe sheet from the Brewery from the Brew Master. I input everything that was on the sheet and the EXACT quantities and it is EXACTLY what they have as far as OG and FG and ABV. I mean to the T exactly! I used those exact quantities per BeerSmith and hit it spot on. This is the second time I have brewed this beer with the exact same results. Brewtarget was off all the way around.

 

[mikfire]

(snip)
Light Malt Extract Extract 6.000 lb No No 78% 4 L
(snip)
6 lbs Light Malt Extract (4.0 SRM) Sugar 82.8 %

(emphasis mine)

Okay. I have been playing with this a bit because I couldn't get my version of beersmith to come anywhere near your numbers. No matter how I tried, I got an OG of 1.049 which was close enough to brewtarget's to simply be round off errors.

I noticed that I didn't have a "Light Malt Extract" (I am trying very hard to not use LME, because that has a completely different meaning in this context) in the list of ingredients in my version of beersmith, so I assumed you added it yourself. And then I think I spotted the problem.

You have defined the "Light Malt Extract" as a sugar in beersmith, but as an extract in brewtarget. A sugar is considered completely fermentable assuming your target ABV is within the tolerance of the yeast. Extracts are not. If I replaced your 6 lbs of "Light Malt Extract" with a pure sugar, my numbers suddenly agreed with yours.

So is your "Light Malt Extract" a sugar, e.g., table sugar or brown sugar? Or is it a malt extract? Additionally, if it is an extract, is it a liquid or dry extract? The dry usually has a bit more sugar to it.

Yes. I know. This still doesn't explain why your measurements exactly match the expected OG when using the sugar in the calculations. If it is a dry malt extract and not a liquid, the dry malt has just enough more fermentable sugar in it to make up the difference. The exact difference between LME and DME depends on the tables you are looking at, and will vary from batch to batch of each.

Mik