Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil - Dip Tube Solution & Placement Q

[kc.rkitek]

I finally got my M&B last week and have been busy scavenging fittings and such to plumb it for recirc/whirlpool/cfc using a Mark II pump. The only thing I didn't have was a dip tube and as far as off-the-shelf solutions go, there isn't much that will fit between the inner wall and mash tube. Then I stumbled across the Spincycle whirlpool return from brewhardware.com. I reached out to Bobby to get the thickness of the part, to which he replied that it's 7/8" thick. My calipers read that the gap was .9". That's not much in the way of tolerance, but stormed ahead and took a chance on it with the intent on cutting off the down tube to the length I needed. The good news is that it fit cozily in the gap without any M&B modification:

So, can I get some opinions on whether I should be directing the dip tube to be drawing the uptake wort across the temperature sensor like I have in the pic, or should I point it the other way? I have enough length left on to tube to change the cut angle and rotate it away, but would it make any difference? I feel like the sensor would report more accurately to the controller if I'm drawing the recirculation across it, but now I'm second-guessing this approach.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

What do you mean by "drawing the uptake wort "? That tube is going to return wort back to the BK (from the pump) simply for whirlpooling.
I don't think it'll matter too much which way it points, but I'd be inclined to point it the same direction whirlpools spin in the northern hemisphere.

 

[kc.rkitek]

The dip tube that I modified using the Spincycle part is sucking the wort, the whirlpool arm is returning it. I'm talking about the direction of the dip tube. Should it point in the same direction as the whirlpool arm, effectively drawing wort across the sensor:

Or, should it point in the opposite direction, sucking in the wort a bit away from the sensor:

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'd be surprised if you saw any difference between the two configurations, the liquid will be moving freely across the entire bottom.

I'd pick a direction that makes cleaning / draining easiest.

 

[kc.rkitek]

Thanks for the guidance. I don't think the direction will make much difference for cleaning/draining, especially since the whirlpool arm is removable...it's just clamped to the top with a beam clamp, similar to this arrangement. My only concern was with the sensor temperature readings when introducing a little extra turbulence right next to it. Maybe it's for the better, maybe not, and maybe no difference either way in this small of a vessel. I think I'll just leave it how it is now for the first few sessions and be on the lookout for weird temp fluctuations while recirulating during the mash. Thanks again!

 

[Ian57]

I finally got my M&B last week and have been busy scavenging fittings and such to plumb it for recirc/whirlpool/cfc using a Mark II pump. The only thing I didn't have was a dip tube and as far as off-the-shelf solutions go, there isn't much that will fit between the inner wall and mash tube. Then I stumbled across the Spincycle whirlpool return from brewhardware.com. I reached out to Bobby to get the thickness of the part, to which he replied that it's 7/8" thick. My calipers read that the gap was .9". That's not much in the way of tolerance, but stormed ahead and took a chance on it with the intent on cutting off the down tube to the length I needed. The good news is that it fit cozily in the gap without any M&B modification:

So, can I get some opinions on whether I should be directing the dip tube to be drawing the uptake wort across the temperature sensor like I have in the pic, or should I point it the other way? I have enough length left on to tube to change the cut angle and rotate it away, but would it make any difference? I feel like the sensor would report more accurately to the controller if I'm drawing the recirculation across it, but now I'm second-guessing this approach.

Any thoughts on this?

Pardon my ignorance. I have just got a Mash and Boil. I am curious as to when would you use this?
If you use while mashing I thought you put the return above the mash bed to go through. Please could you enlighten a dumb brewer please.

 

[kc.rkitek]

The dip tube is used to suck wort out of the kettle during recirculation (i pump up to a loc line through the lid), whirlpooling (you see the arm in the above pic), and pumping out of the kettle to my cfc/fermentation vessel. I wanted a dip tube to reduce the amount of dead space below the spigot that came with the m&b. I'm not concerned about transferring hops (I'll boil with a stainless hop spider) and break material (the whirlpool should cone that up in the middle). Does that clarify?

 

[Ian57]

The dip tube is used to suck wort out of the kettle during recirculation (i pump up to a loc line through the lid), whirlpooling (you see the arm in the above pic), and pumping out of the kettle to my cfc/fermentation vessel. I wanted a dip tube to reduce the amount of dead space below the spigot that came with the m&b. I'm not concerned about transferring hops (I'll boil with a stainless hop spider) and break material (the whirlpool should cone that up in the middle). Does that clarify?

Yes it does thank you. Before this I did not know what whirl pooling did. What want to ask now is what size pipe did you buy? And the small pipe did you get that from the same place?

 

[kc.rkitek]

All of the stainless fittings are 1/2" npt. Most came from bargainfittings.com including the Mark II pump and silicone hose. A couple compression-to-npt fittings came from Aliexpress. The whirlpool arm came from stainlessbrewing.com. The cfc I think was from ny brew supply on Amazon...the 1/2" version. I picked that up a while back, so can't really remember. So far looks like this on the outside...

Goes from the dip tube in the kettle out to the pump. Out of pump to 2-way valve (that I can throttle flow both ways) either up to the loc-line recirc under the lid (i drilled this with a step bit), or down to my cfc.

Out of the cfc, I can go back up to the whirlpool arm (hanging on the left side of the cart), or out to the bucket. While whirlpooling through the dry cfc, I'll try to maintain a boil to sanitize the entire system with support from an additional 1500w hot rod. After whirlpooling for a bit, I'll turn on the water to the cfc, and transfer straight to the ferm vessel throttling the flow way down and hopefully get the wort down in the 60s coming out of the cfc.

That's the concept anyway...hoping out actually works in practice. Final big projects (for now) are an insulation jacket that I'm making out of an old army surplus sleeping bag, insulating the plumbing with some closed cell foam pipe insulation so I don't lose too much heat during mash/recirc, and a ventilation system using a 6" inline vortex fan.

 

[mcd432]

Holy crap! Any chance you kept a modification (including parts) list for that set up. Awesome... just awesome.

 

[Ian57]

Holy crap! Any chance you kept a modification (including parts) list for that set up. Awesome... just awesome.

Ditto

 

[kc.rkitek]

Holy crap! Any chance you kept a modification (including parts) list for that set up. Awesome... just awesome.

I don't currently, but I could throw a BOM together pretty easily with some more detail pics. I'm actually terrified to find out exactly how much I have in this so far...talk about scope creep. It's probably all together about what a grainfather would have costed, except with this I get non-proprietary parts, lots of camlock goodness, and 1500w of extra heating for a stronger boil when I need it. Like I mentioned earlier, I did pull a few of these bits and pieces from my old system, but I'll add them to the list anyway. I'll try to whip something up tonight.

 

[kc.rkitek]

Ditto

Sent you both PMs with details.

 

[dgaff]

Should your suction and discharge point in opposite directions for establishing a strong whirlpool or does experience with your configuration show that it does not matter what direction the dip tube points? I've never done a whirlpool with a pump before so I have no previous experience with this, simply just an observation and visualizing suction/discharge flow against each other.

 

[kc.rkitek]

Should your suction and discharge point in opposite directions for establishing a strong whirlpool or does experience with your configuration show that it does not matter what direction the dip tube points? I've never done a whirlpool with a pump before so I have no previous experience with this, simply just an observation and visualizing suction/discharge flow against each other.

Honestly, I don't know yet. I just got it together to this level a couple days ago and haven't had a chance to test the new setup yet. I plan to leave it as is for now and if the whirlpool doesn't work as expected, I'll recut the dip tube and clock it so it faces the other way, into the direction of the flow. But first, insulation and ventilation. Then brew day! It's really hard to find time with a toddler though...he's so high maintenance.

 

[kc.rkitek]

Double post. Stupid app.

 

[mcd432]

Sent you both PMs with details.

Received

 

[Jeff_T]

Wow, envious of your M&B setup. Looks awesome. Mine is very standard with only the addition of a diptube. I've thought about throwing on a pump for recirc but using it as a BIAB rig with some insulation has been working great. With the CFC are you using a hop spider or bags?

 

[kc.rkitek]

Wow, envious of your M&B setup. Looks awesome. Mine is very standard with only the addition of a diptube. I've thought about throwing on a pump for recirc but using it as a BIAB rig with some insulation has been working great. With the CFC are you using a hop spider or bags?

Thanks! It's definitely been slow going getting this all together and super hard on the wallet, but it's such a upgrade from my propane powered turkey fryer! Just crossing my fingers that it performs as I expect.

I'm going to use a hop spider like this one. Only issue that I can foresee might be clearance...I ordered a 6x14 version of that hop spider a while before deciding to add the hot rod...now I'm not sure if the bottom of the hop spider will interfere with the hot rod when it's all in the kettle. Maybe the 6x14 is overkill and I should have gone with the 4x10, especially since I typically do more malt forward beers. I'm supposedly receiving the hop spider tomorrow, so time will tell.

Just a couple more projects to wrap up, then it's all gravy...hopefully!

 

[kc.rkitek]

Well, if there's any question, the bottom of the 6x14 ss spider sits pretty comfortably around 2" above the hot rod. I'll call that a win for now, at least until I see it in practice. Pics later.

 

[jcom87]

Sent you both PMs with details.

I just purchased the M&B, and I won't lie, I'm extremely jealous of your set-up. Any chance I can get a list of materials as well?

 

[mcd432]

kc we gracious enough to share the following link:

Bill of materials is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AmDsRZgP70OezvDDioXwzZgr0Vi94BqCgC99d5L9IcA/edit?usp=sharing

 

[kc.rkitek]

kc we gracious enough to share the following link:

Bill of materials is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AmDsRZgP70OezvDDioXwzZgr0Vi94BqCgC99d5L9IcA/edit?usp=sharing

True, that was the BOM before I tore down and rebuilt the system on a chrome wire shelving system. That doc is mostly still relevant, but some things have been removed/added. I pared down the amount of plumbing & hoses slightly, but also added a 8 gal HLT with hot pod, a couple Inkbird IPB-16 controllers to control the hot rod (M&B) and hot pod (HLT), a yoga mat insulation jacket, and 6" vortex fan w/ a plastic bin hood for ventilation. Also, I added a cheap second lid that I'll place on the M&B when whirlpooling/chilling. It's hard plumbed with my whirlpool arm and I mounted the CFC to the top of it with a few stainless shelf brackets. I haven't updated the BOM since rebuilding, but here's a few progress pics of the current iteration...almost there! https://imgur.com/a/HIAoi

 

[mcd432]

True, that was the BOM before I tore down and rebuilt the system on a chrome wire shelving system. That doc is mostly still relevant, but some things have been removed/added. I pared down the amount of plumbing & hoses slightly, but also added a 8 gal HLT with hot pod, a couple Inkbird IPB-16 controllers to control the hot rod (M&B) and hot pod (HLT), a yoga mat insulation jacket, and 6" vortex fan w/ a plastic bin hood for ventilation. Also, I added a cheap second lid that I'll place on the M&B when whirlpooling/chilling. It's hard plumbed with my whirlpool arm and I mounted the CFC to the top of it with a few stainless shelf brackets. I haven't updated the BOM since rebuilding, but here's a few progress pics of the current iteration...almost there! https://imgur.com/a/HIAoi

Talk about a transformation. Very impressive!

 

[Tyler Hurst]

Sent you both PMs with details.

Hey I know its a couple years later but, do you still have that part list and would you mind sending me a copy?

 

[Ian57]

Hey I know its a couple years later but, do you still have that part list and would you mind sending me a copy?

Did the OP send you anything?

 

[Tyler Hurst]

No not yet

 

[Ian57]

No not yet

Here are the pictures

 

[Ian57]

Here is the list of parts

 

[Tyler Hurst]

Thank you!!

 

[MadSipper]

@Ian57

Thanks for posting the parts list! I just just ordered my M&B and this is a big help.

 

[kc.rkitek]

Sorry...long time no update. I barely get time to brew anymore with work, a toddler at home, and another one on the way. Since those original images were shared and the BOM made, I've made several adjustments, most of which were finished around Feb of this year. I outlined the revisions here:
https://imgur.com/a/HIAoi

The only thing not pictured is the plastic bin ventilation hood I threw together over the top.

 

[cheapscotsman]

Looks nice and organized. I have the mash and boil and same cfc, don't use the basket anymore use a brew bag with a false bottom. Do you have a problem not having a filter?