Bray's One Month Mead

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So i ordered all my supplies and I'm making my starter, thanks for your help buzzerj.

One problem, i ordered my nutrients according to the first 5 gallon recipe (its in tsp) but i read further and it seems its supposed to be in tbsps? I only have 30gs (about 2.5 tbsps) of fermaid k and 30gs of dap, can I make this work?
 
OK this has been a bit of a source of confusion but let's try to simplify it. For a one gallon batch, loveofrose states the following: 0.25 tsp potassium carbonate at the start, then 0.25 tsp DAP and 0.5 tsp Fermaid K at the start and again at the 1/3 sugar break and again at the 2/3 sugar break. That's a total of 0.25 tsp potassium carbonate, 0.75 tsp DAP and 1.5 tsp Fermaid K for the whole batch.

If you're doing a 5 gallon batch, the total quantity of potassium carbonate is 1.25 tsp, 3.75 tsp DAP and 7.5 tsp Fermaid K (basically 5 times the above quantities for 1 gallon). Now remember, there are 3 teaspoons in every tablespoon so the prescribed total quantities of nutrients used in a 5 gallon batch in tablespoons should be the following: 0.417 tbsp Potassium Carbonate, 1.25 tbsp DAP and 2.5 tbsp Fermaid K. So I think you will be fine for your 5 gallon batch Lamplover. You have just enough Fermaid K for 5 gallons. You will have DAP left over. Be sure you've got potassium carbonate to start this off and the Go-Ferm (1 gram (0.25 tsp)) for your starter. Be sure to let us know how it comes out.
 
well the original calls for this
loveofrose said:
Dose the following at must creation, 2/3, & 1/3 sugar break.
1 tsp DAP + 2 tsp Fermaid K
Add 3/4 tsp potassium carbonate.
Click to expand...

then he says this

loveofrose said:
Sorry there was a typo for the 5 gallon recipe. Units for 5 gallons was supposed to be tablespoons.
Click to expand...

and this

loveofrose said:
Add 3/4 TBSP K2CO3, 1 TBSP DAP, & 2 TBSP Fermaid K
Use a drill powered mixer to mix honey completely.

Also, Dose 1 TBSP DAP + 2 TBSP Fermaid at 2/3 & 1/3 sugar break (I leave a hydrometer in to monitor it daily)
Click to expand...

But you've reassured me and I used a YAN calculator which said the same thing as you. I did use Go-ferm in my starter and it went great, I'm doing the second step now (2L's) because I had the extra honey, Go-ferm and time.

I will definitely be updating you on how it turns out, thanks for the quick reply!
 
Yes I realize what he said. Bray can clarify for himself. But consider, six total tablespoons of Fermaid K is a whole lot of Fermaid K for a five gallon batch. That's 18 teaspoons! I can see using slightly more than maybe what I said but 7.5 teaspoons of Fermaid K is a lot too for 5 gallons. DAP is cheaper, so Bray is saying 3 total tablespoons of DAP and I have 1.25 tablespoons total. But again I'm using simple step up ratios. If the yeast really need it, hike the total DAP up a bit providing more net nitrogen but you have no Fermaid K to spare. I think you will be fine, the key is the staggered additions at the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar breaks. Providing the nutrients when the yeast need it most. Go for it. I think you will be pleased with the results.
 
The recipe is as stated with Tablespoon units for 5 gallons. The recipe does not scale linear because you are pitching a lot more yeast with a starter.

Can it work with less? Probably, but I never tested it.

I'm currently testing Fermaid O as a replacement for both DAP and Fermaid K. I'll post results when conclusive.


Better brewing through science!
 
The K2CO3 does not scale linear because you are dealing with 5x volume that traps substantially more CO2 gas. That's my thought process anyway. Try less and see if it works.


Better brewing through science!
 
loveofrose said:
The recipe is as stated with Tablespoon units for 5 gallons. The recipe does not scale linear because you are pitching a lot more yeast with a starter.

Can it work with less? Probably, but I never tested it.

I'm currently testing Fermaid O as a replacement for both DAP and Fermaid K. I'll post results when conclusive.


Better brewing through science!
Click to expand...

Im new to staggered nutrients but in my research i have never heard that the nutrient requirements dont scale linearly to the volume of must, although it might scale exponentially for the OG. Im on my phone so in a few days i can read into it a bit more and link a few sources for you to read because you may not need to recommend that much nutrients for 5 gallons (I will also be testing this).

Fermaid-O is usually used with DAP and Fermaid-k because too much Fermaid-O can cause yeasty flavours. So if you are testing Fermaid-O as a replacement, I wouldnt recommend scaling up the g/L for a 5 gallon batch.
 
I'm not worried about yeasty flavors. I find that if you let the mead clear, it's a not issue.

Originally, the primary concern with Fermaid O was sufficient YAN. It turns out to be a non-issue The YAN calculation doesn't really apply to Fermaid O because the nitrogen is much more efficiently integrated than the DAP.

Preliminary results from other folks at gotmead.com show 80 grams of Fermaid O split up into 3 additions in a 5 gallon batch make a superior aromatic BOMM. I've not tested it personally, but I thought I would throw it out there.


Better brewing through science!
 
Regarding Fermaid O, I note that Lallemand recommends a dosage of 20g/hectolitre at end of lag phase and again at the 1/4 to 1/3 sugar break for wine yeast. For 5 gallons, that's 3.8g each addition (0.81 tsp). They recommend suspending 3.8g in 38 ml water prior to addition into the fermenter for each nutrient addition. They also say “Note: In low nutrient situations, yeast available nitrogen (YAN) may be insufficient to avoid fermentation problems.” So what do you think? 3.8g added twice per 5 gallon batch (or 7.6g total) is a whole lot different than 80g total (about 17 teaspoons) over three additions. Do you believe that that much Fermaid O is needed based on the nutrient poor environment in a mead and the use of the Wyeast 1388 rather than a wine yeast?

Also a correction to an earlier post (#323). I said only 0.25 teaspoon of Go Ferm would be needed for a 5 gallon batch starter. I should have scaled that up by a factor of 5 to 1.25 teaspoons of Go Ferm. Bray recommends 1 teaspoon Go Ferm for the starter. Sorry for the confusion.
 
buzzerj said:
Regarding Fermaid O, I note that Lallemand recommends a dosage of 20g/hectolitre at end of lag phase and again at the 1/4 to 1/3 sugar break for wine yeast. For 5 gallons, that's 3.8g each addition (0.81 tsp). They recommend suspending 3.8g in 38 ml water prior to addition into the fermenter for each nutrient addition. They also say “Note: In low nutrient situations, yeast available nitrogen (YAN) may be insufficient to avoid fermentation problems.” So what do you think? 3.8g added twice per 5 gallon batch (or 7.6g total) is a whole lot different than 80g total (about 17 teaspoons) over three additions. Do you believe that that much Fermaid O is needed based on the nutrient poor environment in a mead and the use of the Wyeast 1388 rather than a wine yeast?

Also a correction to an earlier post (#323). I said only 0.25 teaspoon of Go Ferm would be needed for a 5 gallon batch starter. I should have scaled that up by a factor of 5 to 1.25 teaspoons of Go Ferm. Bray recommends 1 teaspoon Go Ferm for the starter. Sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...

test it out and see
 
buzzerj said:
Regarding Fermaid O, I note that Lallemand recommends a dosage of 20g/hectolitre at end of lag phase and again at the 1/4 to 1/3 sugar break for wine yeast. For 5 gallons, that's 3.8g each addition (0.81 tsp). They recommend suspending 3.8g in 38 ml water prior to addition into the fermenter for each nutrient addition. They also say “Note: In low nutrient situations, yeast available nitrogen (YAN) may be insufficient to avoid fermentation problems.” So what do you think? 3.8g added twice per 5 gallon batch (or 7.6g total) is a whole lot different than 80g total (about 17 teaspoons) over three additions. Do you believe that that much Fermaid O is needed based on the nutrient poor environment in a mead and the use of the Wyeast 1388 rather than a wine yeast?

Also a correction to an earlier post (#323). I said only 0.25 teaspoon of Go Ferm would be needed for a 5 gallon batch starter. I should have scaled that up by a factor of 5 to 1.25 teaspoons of Go Ferm. Bray recommends 1 teaspoon Go Ferm for the starter. Sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...


Lallemand's suggestions are based on grape musts. Grape musts have tons of nutrients so it's not necessary to add a ton of nutrients.

Honey, however, is pretty much devoid of all nutrients. If you want to try 40 grams Fermaid O go ahead, but it may stall. I promise 12 g per 5 gallons will stall. Also, nutrients do not replace K2CO3 buffering. You still need to add it!




Better brewing through science!
 
Right. I was planning using a fruit must for a melomel. I can see your point. I'm just trying to see if all the quantity of Fermaid K or O is needed to have the success with a one month result or if some of what you're quoting for nutrient might be in excess. I was planning to use a potassium bicarbonate also. I don't think I'm necessarily going to follow the Lallemand recommendation but I'm wondering if something short of 80g total is needed either. Considering 120g is retailing at about $15, spending $10 for the yeast nutrient for a 5 gallon batch is a bit steep. But if that's what's needed for a reasonably quick result it may be worth it. But everything starts to add up quickly.
 
I know it wouldn't be a BOMM, but reading this I was tempted to use some Ale yeast. I bought a lot of different yeasts and I really have only used Lager yeast's for beers and champagne ones.

I got some Safale Ale lying around. I know Ales are fast finishers; any imput on it?
 
I know it wouldn't be a BOMM, but reading this I was tempted to use some Ale yeast. I bought a lot of different yeasts and I really have only used Lager yeast's for beers and champagne ones.

I got some Safale Ale lying around. I know Ales are fast finishers; any imput on it?
Click to expand...

Look at comment #49 on page 5 of this thread. Loveofrose already did it. If you want your mead tasting like beer go ahead. Otherwise Wyeast 1388 is the only yeast to use for this if you want it tasting like mead. But if you're fine with this not being a BOMM knock yourself out. Otherwise, for $6 for the Wyeast 1388, do it right. Did I say that?
 
buzzerj said:
Look at comment #49 on page 5 of this thread. Loveofrose already did it. If you want your mead tasting like beer go ahead. Otherwise Wyeast 1388 is the only yeast to use for this if you want it tasting like mead. But if you're fine with this not being a BOMM knock yourself out. Otherwise, for $6 for the Wyeast 1388, do it right. Did I say that?
Click to expand...

Well, I made the comment just asking for it. I got a different strain (S-03) not S-33 but I guess experimentation is in order. I was just asking about factibility, not trying to make a BOMM with another stuff, that's why I said it headfirst.

Yes I know its worth 6$ a packet, im not being a cheapskate; Unluckily I live outside the US and without free acces to US currency, I just cant drive to the store and buy a packet of Wyeast because it doesn't exist. However when the possibility arises again to import a bulk of brewing/meadmaking stuff again, Im getting some of this yeast and give a go to loveofrose's BOMM
 
By all means try it. If you might like a sweet mead that might end at 1.030 or so, try a bread yeast. I am looking at an Apricot Vanilla Sweet Mead that's drinkable as a dessert mead after a few months using just honey, dried apricots, vanilla bean, water and yeast and they didn't even used extra nutrients and it came out well. With the BOMM nutrients, it might come out a bit drier. You may want to consider using some local fruits similarly for you in Caracas.
 
This was a great read, so great I'm going to use this recipe for my first "big" (5 gal) batch. I also want to take two gallons to secondary separately and try and infuse one with bacon flavor and one with some tbd fruit. Do you have any suggestions along these lines.
 
Was trying to find someone that stocked 1388 when I was in Edmonton Alberta last week. What a wasteland! The one brew shop that actually had ANY wet yeasts had a basic selection of lager and ale stuff, but a couple of them looked at me like I was crazy for not being pleased that they carried BOTH Cooper and Lavlin's dry packs....Gawd!

Anyone in Lower Mainland BC got a lead on someone that stocks, or is it off to the wild blue interwebs and mail order?

TeeJo
 
mythbustingpyro said:
This was a great read, so great I'm going to use this recipe for my first "big" (5 gal) batch. I also want to take two gallons to secondary separately and try and infuse one with bacon flavor and one with some tbd fruit. Do you have any suggestions along these lines.
Click to expand...


Pick any fruit you want and freeze it. Or buy it frozen. Let it thaw and throw it in secondary for 2-4 weeks.

Bacon is a bit tougher. The grease can go rancid, so you have to engineer ways around it. I would suggest cooking the bacon and use paper towels to get as much grease off as possible. After that, put the bacon in vodka or Everclear a few days to make an infusion. Dose to taste avoiding any grease floating on top.



Better brewing through science!
 
Some salt, Liquid Smoke, and a bit of say, Maple Extract, would like as not get you the flavor without the headaches of meat in the mix.

Or steep the flavor out of some veggie bacon bits maybe?

Personally, after having found some liquefied remains of a forgotten pack of bacon in the back of the cooler, it's about the last thing I'd be at all inclined to introduce in to a drink, but...YMMV.

TeeJo
 
So I made my BOMM 6 days ago and its already at an SG of 1.011 (OG was 1.082), I gave it a taste and it's quite good! No "Hot" tasting alcohols at all, that Wyeast 1388 is pure genius Loveofrose!

I tinkered with the nutrient additions because the recipe for 5 gallons seemed high and those nutrients aren't cheap around here, and I went with 15g's of DAP and 15g's of fermaid K, or ~4tsp's of each, divided into three and added at must creation and at 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break.

Thanks for answering my questions earlier, this mead is going to be great!
 
1) Never had or made mead before. Had a cyser, and that's pretrt much it.
2) there's a Craig's list posting for 35$/gal of raw Michigan honey. Will that be fine? Nearby kroger has super filtered unknown source for like 5/lb.

Want to do a smaller abv somewhat sessionable mead. Maybe 7% or so and have it ready for winter, then some spiced variants and a methoglin recipe scaled down to similar abv.

Do nutrients depend on gravity? Should I scale that down as well? Does the 1G recipe include 1g of water, or 1G or honey/water mixture (must?) How much headspace?
 
pricelessbrewing said:
2) there's a Craig's list posting for 35$/gal of raw Michigan honey. Will that be fine? Nearby kroger has super filtered unknown source for like 5/lb.
Click to expand...

$35 a GALLON?
Go to this person. Taste the honey. If it isn't awful, back your truck up, hand him a big wad of cash, and buy lots of it.

Local producers here want $7-8 a POUND.

(I'm a little too much a noob to answer your other questions... )
 
pricelessbrewing said:
1) Never had or made mead before. Had a cyser, and that's pretrt much it.
2) there's a Craig's list posting for 35$/gal of raw Michigan honey. Will that be fine? Nearby kroger has super filtered unknown source for like 5/lb.

Want to do a smaller abv somewhat sessionable mead. Maybe 7% or so and have it ready for winter, then some spiced variants and a methoglin recipe scaled down to similar abv.

Do nutrients depend on gravity? Should I scale that down as well? Does the 1G recipe include 1g of water, or 1G or honey/water mixture (must?) How much headspace?
Click to expand...

To give an idea, 1 gallon is approximately 12lb of honey. So a gallon is usually $60+ On average so $35 is really good as long as it is good tasting honey.

Keep the nutrients the same. Nutrients do not scale down. You may need to scale up for bigger meads but never scale down to the normal additions.

1 gallon of mead is usually honey and other ingredients then topped up to a gallon. But I usually make about 1/5th - 1/4 more than a gallon and adjust to the proper OG, fill the gallon just 4/5th the way and use plenty of headspace to prevent overflow/blowout. And when main fermentation is over you top up with saved must you keep in the fridge and continue to top up each time you rack.
 
I found a place nearby that sells 1qt for $10, clover, ob, or wildflower.

So I started a 5 gallon batch 2 days ago, following the ingredients exactly. Used a spoon that chucked into my drill mixed it for 10 or 15 minutes. Had an Og of 1.092.

I have one question about degassing, when do I stop doing it? Also is there a day estimate for the sugar breaks or do I need to pull a sample every day?
 
Excuse my ignorance but what is a sugar break? I assume that the yeast are converting sugar to CO2 and alcohol 24/7 just as long as there is enough sugar to convert and just as long as the yeast don't die of alcohol poisoning.
If you take a sample and the gravity is 1.092 and you take a sample 24 hours later and the gravity is 1.082 and 24 hours later the gravity is 1.072 then you know the rate your yeast at the temperature you are fermenting is converting sugar to alcohol and it is likely to take 7 or 8 (or more days) to get close to 1.000 when you will need to rack to a secondary (or seal the mouth of your primary). IMO , different honey and different yeast at different ambient temperatures take different lengths of time to convert the sugar. But also - IMO - the initial size of the yeast colony, the sugar concentration of the must, the kinds of nutrients in the must, the amount of air in the must, the concentration of the CO2 in the must, the acidity (honey has few if any buffers and the pH can drop precipitously to levels that knockout the yeast) all can affect the speed of conversion. But that said, typically and routinely, it can take a week to 10 days to go from 1.090 to around 1.005. Faster is not better.
 
bernardsmith said:
Excuse my ignorance but what is a sugar break? I assume that the yeast are converting sugar to CO2 and alcohol 24/7 just as long as there is enough sugar to convert and just as long as the yeast don't die of alcohol poisoning.
If you take a sample and the gravity is 1.092 and you take a sample 24 hours later and the gravity is 1.082 and 24 hours later the gravity is 1.072 then you know the rate your yeast at the temperature you are fermenting is converting sugar to alcohol and it is likely to take 7 or 8 (or more days) to get close to 1.000 when you will need to rack to a secondary (or seal the mouth of your primary). IMO , different honey and different yeast at different ambient temperatures take different lengths of time to convert the sugar. But also - IMO - the initial size of the yeast colony, the sugar concentration of the must, the kinds of nutrients in the must, the amount of air in the must, the concentration of the CO2 in the must, the acidity (honey has few if any buffers and the pH can drop precipitously to levels that knockout the yeast) all can affect the speed of conversion. But that said, typically and routinely, it can take a week to 10 days to go from 1.090 to around 1.005. Faster is not better.
Click to expand...


Sugar break is really a made up term to describe how much of the original sugar (think SG) has been utilized by the yeast. For example:
SG = 1.099
2/3 break = 1.066
1/3 break = 1.033
And so on. Generally, it's just used as a calibration point for adding nutrients so that the yeast have the nutrients they need at the correct point in the ferment.

Actually, fermentation can take 3 days to 10 years depending on nutrients, pH, temperature, pitching amount, yeast strain, and spices used. Faster usually is better not so much due to the speed per se, but due to the fact that fast ferments indicate that all the above yeast conditions are optimal.



Better brewing through science!
 
Took a gravity reading today after 3 days and it was at 1.065 so right above a 2/3 break at my OG of 1.090 so I went ahead and added the first additions. It nearly foamed over the extra 1.5 gallons of headspace.
 
loveofrose said:
Sugar break is really a made up term to describe how much of the original sugar (think SG) has been utilized by the yeast. For example:
SG = 1.099
2/3 break = 1.066
1/3 break = 1.033
And so on. Generally, it's just used as a calibration point for adding nutrients so that the yeast have the nutrients they need at the correct point in the ferment.

/QUOTE]

So unlike "hot breaks" and "cold breaks" which occur presumably at specific temperatures when proteins coagulate, it is not a true or visible "break" as much as it is a point in the continuum of fermentation at which it is effective to add nutrient. Why mazers invoke brewers' concepts to account for quite different phenomena intrigues me.
Click to expand...
 
bernardsmith said:
So unlike "hot breaks" and "cold breaks" which occur presumably at specific temperatures when proteins coagulate, it is not a true or visible "break" as much as it is a point in the continuum of fermentation at which it is effective to add nutrient. Why mazers invoke brewers' concepts to account for quite different phenomena intrigues me.
Click to expand...

No, there is no physical phenomenon that happens at those points, it's simply a convenient number.

Although I doubt the term 'break' is owned exclusively by brewers ;)
 
I am 2 weeks in to a 1 gal batch. It is starting to clear. I want to use the yeast cake to get a 3 or 5 gallon batch going. Can I rack now (not bottle, just rack). or do I need too wait the full month on the yeast for optimal results.
 
Pitman said:
I am 2 weeks in to a 1 gal batch. It is starting to clear. I want to use the yeast cake to get a 3 or 5 gallon batch going. Can I rack now (not bottle, just rack). or do I need too wait the full month on the yeast for optimal results.
Click to expand...


Personally I would wait to rack. I'd suggest leaving it for another 10 days. Make sure it's fully complete then rack and reuse the yeast. Patience is a virtue.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 

Similar threads

T
Mead has been fermenting for almost 2 months and is only at 6% ABV
Replies
8
Views
1K
AirsickErmine
A
superpig0
Mead Recipe Concern
Replies
2
Views
616
Dan O
Dan O
J
Beginner Mead Mistake?
Replies
8
Views
694
JamieDanger
J
MapleGroveAleworks
Newbie to mead - question on yeast nutrients
Replies
3
Views
655
Johnny2
J
J
Cinnamon Metheglin
Replies
19
Views
1K
Stevie G
S

Latest posts

Back
Top