Boil and Ferm causing High ABV

[tfbrews]

Hello all,

So I have done quite a few brews this season and have noticed that my PBGravity is coming out spot on - then after a 60 min boil the OG ends up higher than expected...not too big a deal - if I need to I just add some water and bring it back down.

However, when doing an IPA or Pale this KILLS the hop flavor. So I would like to avoid that.

The next issue I am having is that my Yeast (typically 1056) is "over" fermenting my beer causing a much lower FG than I was expecting.

This has been the case on different styles of beer so I would have to assume it is something in the process, not the recipe causing this.

I did a 60 min boil for all of these and my ferm room is steady around 67-68 degrees.

Anything I could do to help these issues? TIA

 

[BaylessBrewer]

Less vigorous boil and mash at a higher temp

 

[1977Brewer]

1056 is a beast. It eats every sugar molecule it finds. I use S-05 but it's the same strain. Thinking about switching to S-04 in the fall when I can keep the temps down a little. I tried mashing higher the last couple of batches, and I thnk I got slightly less attenuatiion there, but it was negligible.

 

[TheMadKing]

About your gravity issue, just spitballing and not trying to sound condescending at all:

are you measuring your OG at 68F? or are you maybe stirring up trub before measuring gravity?

you could try some irish moss in your boil and see if that brings your gravity readings down.

If your PB gravity is good, then you can't be adding sugar during the boil, so either your volume has to be decreasing more than you are expecting, or you are measuring gravity with clumped proteins in suspension, or just at the wrong temp.

 

[Gameface]

Hello all,

So I have done quite a few brews this season and have noticed that my PBGravity is coming out spot on - then after a 60 min boil the OG ends up higher than expected...not too big a deal - if I need to I just add some water and bring it back down.

However, when doing an IPA or Pale this KILLS the hop flavor. So I would like to avoid that.

The next issue I am having is that my Yeast (typically 1056) is "over" fermenting my beer causing a much lower FG than I was expecting.

This has been the case on different styles of beer so I would have to assume it is something in the process, not the recipe causing this.

I did a 60 min boil for all of these and my ferm room is steady around 67-68 degrees.

Anything I could do to help these issues? TIA

The unexpectedly high post boil gravity is caused by more boil-off than you're accounting for.

A far as "over" fermenting, you have a good deal of control here. You can steer this ship from the front or the back. You can mash higher. 154-156 will give you a less fermentable wort. Crystal malts and some other specialty malts will provide some unfermentable sugars that will keep your FG from dropping too low. You could do either or both.

An example of you grain bill and mash schedule would be helpful.

 

[tfbrews]

Thanks all!

I was thinking that the boil is definitely a bit rough. I just switched to a Blichmann from a Bayou so I can back that down a bit to help.

I will try switching to S04 as well that may help.

as far as my darker beers its is not too much of a concern because I am mashing at a higher temp, it is more so an issue when i am doing an IPA or Pale where it gets frustrating.

I have been chilling the wort down before measuring gravity, however I do usually have it moving a bit so that may be the issue.

My latest issue was with a Pale Ale using the following:

10lbs 2 row
8oz cara
8oz 40

Mashed at 148 for 75 mins
Preboil amount was just under 7 gal
post boil was just under 6 so only about 1 gal/hour loss.

 

[blizz81]

I would advise against switching to S-04 if you are simply using a "fermentation room" / don't have good ferm temp control.

 

[tfbrews]

Thanks for the info. I ordered some up to try in a blonde I am doing this weekend.

 

[kh54s10]

So I have done quite a few brews this season and have noticed that my PBGravity is coming out spot on - then after a 60 min boil the OG ends up higher than expected...

This doesn't make sense. Either the math is off or you are not getting the proper volume after the boil.

If you the recipe is designed for 5 gallons and you start off with the right amount of preboil wort at the correct gravity, the only way the original gravity would be high is if you boiled off too much water.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks all!

I was thinking that the boil is definitely a bit rough. I just switched to a Blichmann from a Bayou so I can back that down a bit to help.

I will try switching to S04 as well that may help.

as far as my darker beers its is not too much of a concern because I am mashing at a higher temp, it is more so an issue when i am doing an IPA or Pale where it gets frustrating.

I have been chilling the wort down before measuring gravity, however I do usually have it moving a bit so that may be the issue.

My latest issue was with a Pale Ale using the following:

10lbs 2 row
8oz cara
8oz 40

Mashed at 148 for 75 mins
Preboil amount was just under 7 gal
post boil was just under 6 so only about 1 gal/hour loss.

I mash my IPAs and APAs at 152 for 45-60 minutes. 148 will create a very fermentable wort, which will finish very dry.

Still, your preboil reading and your post boil reading can not vary that much. Either the preboil reading isn't cooled to under 90 degrees before taking the reading, or something else is wrong. If you are taking the preboil OG at mash temps and then correcting via software, that is the problem. Cool the sample to under 90 degrees, and then do the correction as any reading above about 100 degrees is so inaccurate (even with conversions) that they are useless.

If you're only boiling off an hour per hour, that is adequate but you don't want to go any lower than that. That ensures a vigorous enough boil to drive off the DMS precursors (SMMs), allow a good hot break, and give you a good boil off volume.

 

[madscientist451]

What are the actual pre- boil, OG and FG readings for the beer you had a problem with?
Using a refractometer or a hydrometer?

 

[blizz81]

Thanks for the info. I ordered some up to try in a blonde I am doing this weekend.

If your room is ambient temp of 67-68*F and you use S-04 with no further ferm temp control, I'd take the precaution of 1) rigging up a hearty blowoff tube running into a decently-large vessel and 2) putting your fermenter inside of something like a big rubbermaid plastic storage bin


S-04 is very fast and furious compared to S-05. I had a ferm chamber set to 62*F (albeit with the probe dangling in the chamber - this was the last time I did that) the last time I used S-04 and came home to this on the next day (it had already calmed some and I measured the temp inside the carboy with a Thermoworks probe at 79.5*F):

 

[tfbrews]

This doesn't make sense. Either the math is off or you are not getting the proper volume after the boil.

If you the recipe is designed for 5 gallons and you start off with the right amount of preboil wort at the correct gravity, the only way the original gravity would be high is if you boiled off too much water.

I have been using Beer Smith and it is calling for collecting almost 8 gallons of wort for the boil. I usually shoot for just under 7. This could be the cause.

Could the ferocity of the boil have an affect as well? I could always back down the fuel feed in order to make the boil a little less harsh.

 

[tfbrews]

What are the actual pre- boil, OG and FG readings for the beer you had a problem with?
Using a refractometer or a hydrometer?

Using a Hannah.

Beersmith suggested collecting 7.89 gallons. I collected roughly 7.

PB - 1.044
OG - 1.063

Others have suggested I was checking the PB at too high of a temp, so I will double check that next time. I do not pull og until the wort is chilled. Right before dumping to the fermenter.

 

[tfbrews]

If your room is ambient temp of 67-68*F and you use S-04 with no further ferm temp control, I'd take the precaution of 1) rigging up a hearty blowoff tube running into a decently-large vessel and 2) putting your fermenter inside of something like a big rubbermaid plastic storage bin


S-04 is very fast and furious compared to S-05. I had a ferm chamber set to 62*F (albeit with the probe dangling in the chamber - this was the last time I did that) the last time I used S-04 and came home to this on the next day (it had already calmed some and I measured the temp inside the carboy with a Thermoworks probe at 79.5*F):

Yikes!

I have a cellar room that is not temp controlled, but does not (at least in my readings) go above 70.

I use the same setup for my ferms at least for the first few days. Then pull the blow off and go to an airlock.

 

[blizz81]

Yikes!

I have a cellar room that is not temp controlled, but does not (at least in my readings) go above 70.

I use the same setup for my ferms at least for the first few days. Then pull the blow off and go to an airlock.

Yeah...I never really had any problems with any other beers with my dangling-temp-probe setup. And most of our beers are high gravity (this one, at 7.1%, was one of our lowest ABV beers), including 1.090 Belgians, etc. I was generally successful setting my controller to about 4-6*F below where I wanted ferm temp to hold.


And then I used S-04. Heh. After that, I now bungee-tighten the probe to the ferm vessel with some reflectix over the probe. Reading after the fact, it's a lot more successful to use S-04 well-controlled at around 62-64*F.


It wasn't all just mess cleanup that sucked either - internal temps that high in fermentation turned this chocolate milk stout into a fruity ester bomb. We called it the belgian version of our stout.

 

[peterj]

The next issue I am having is that my Yeast (typically 1056) is "over" fermenting my beer causing a much lower FG than I was expecting.

This is an easy fix, you just need to mash higher. As Yooper said, 148F is a very low mash temperature. Mashing in the 152-154F range should help leave the beer with more body and a higher FG.

Using a Hannah.

Beersmith suggested collecting 7.89 gallons. I collected roughly 7.

PB - 1.044
OG - 1.063

Others have suggested I was checking the PB at too high of a temp, so I will double check that next time. I do not pull og until the wort is chilled. Right before dumping to the fermenter.

According to these numbers you should have boiled off about 2.1 gallons and ended up with around 4.9 gallons post boil. You can either try to lower the heat and boil off less or just use your actual boil off rate of 2.1 gallons/hour and adjust your recipes to end up at the correct OG.

However, when doing an IPA or Pale this KILLS the hop flavor. So I would like to avoid that.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Adding back water that you boiled off to get back to the right OG for your recipe shouldn't really affect the hop flavor.

 

[tfbrews]

Thank you all very much for the feedback on this.

I am doing 2 brews this weekend so I will put all of this info to use!

I really appreciate your help!

 

[kh54s10]

I have been using Beer Smith and it is calling for collecting almost 8 gallons of wort for the boil. I usually shoot for just under 7. This could be the cause.

Could the ferocity of the boil have an affect as well? I could always back down the fuel feed in order to make the boil a little less harsh.

You need to tell Beersmith how much you need to collect to end up with the proper volume into the fermenter.

If it tells you that you need 8 gallons to collect 5 that is fine. But if you only need the 7 gallons to end up with the 5 gallons your gravities will not be right.

The real need to control the boil is to get the proper amount of boil off. You can boil with just a rolling surface. The critical thing is to start with the right amount of wort to end up with the proper amount into the fermenter. You need to change the settings in Beersmith until the gravities and volumes match the recipe.