Beginners all extract hoegaarden clone

[bregiz]

I got a recipe from the book "Brewing crafts" by Rodgers-Wilson

which calls for the following ingredients:

Black Rock Whispering Wheat bear
Dried wheat malt 1kg
Coriander 15g
Orange peel zest 2 tbsp
Safwheat yeast


I have been to my LHBS And picked up the following:

Black Rock Whispering Wheat bear LME kit
Dried wheat malt 1kg (coppertun)

the recipe called for Safwheat yeast, but under advice from the brew shop I am using mangrove jacks craft series yeast m20 bavarian wheat instead.


For the coriander I was going to just use dried coriander, but since reading the forums see that others are using coriander seeds for their all grain brews, so think I should be looking for the seeds instead.

For the Orange peel zest, I have brought some oranges and was going to use fresh zest that I harvested myself, but am now wondering whether that is a good idea or not. Thoughts?

The book I have suggests to treat the orange zest and coriander in the same way as grain, and in the same book suggests to:
crush grain, mix with enough water to allow it to slop around freely(500ml or so) heat to boiling and leave on a rolling boil for 20 minutes before straining into other hot ingredients.

SO. That is my plan of attack so far, But I am interested to hear other peoples thoughts on any ingredient changes/ additions, or different techniques that could help to make a better beer.

Cheers in advance for all your help. I really do appreciate having such a wealth of knowledge helping me along the way with learning how to brew. It is invaluable

 

[ImNoExpert]

Last time I did a wit (back when I was extract brewing), I used coriander seed and dried bitter orange peel. I threw it into the boil after steeping my grain. I also used a Belgiun Wit yeast http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=69, though.

It turned out great.

 

[bregiz]

where do you get dried orange peel from?

or did you peel and dry it yourself?

 

[IslandLizard]

Just finely grate, or peel very thinly with as sharp knife, the orange part of the orange skin, not the white pith underneath. You'll need about 2-3 tablespoons of it. Of course no need to dry first.

Ideally, the "bitter orange peel" should be sourced from *real* bitter curacao oranges. Yeah, try to get your hands on those... Regular orange peel works just as well. Add a few grams of bittering hops to compensate, if you must. Or a few teaspoons of the white pith...

Don't boil the zest for 20 minutes, just add it at flame out. Actually I prefer to add it at 180°F. At that temperature it will be pasteurized and highlight more of the tasty, fragrant orange notes. I actually think 160°F would be better but slightly riskier, infection-wise.

Coriander. The seeds is what you want. Crush them with a rolling pin or in a blade spinner-type coffee grinder (well cleaned first). I buy mine in Indian spice stores, 1-2 pounds at a time, since I cook with them as well.

Again, add the coriander very late or after flame-out, so they don't lose too much of their fragrance or end up tasting overcooked. Since it takes a few minutes to chill down to 140°F, they'll steep nicely for a while. Gram for gram, you get more orange flavor from the coriander seeds than from orange peel itself, regardless of the sources.

 

[IslandLizard]

I haven't tried the Mangrove Jack yeast series yet, but am intrigued with their descriptions. I bet your LHBS didn't have the SafWheat in stock. I've never seen it on the shelf either. And if it comes to dry vs. liquid, don't discount dry yeast over liquid varieties. Just follow the re-hydration and pitching instructions to a T. You'll be amazed what dry yeast does. Without making starters that is.

Oh, HBT is "The Place" to be. I learned more in 6 months here than in the 4 years before.

 

[bregiz]

Cheers for the info

The oranges I have a sweet navel orange, so I guess I will add some of the white pith in to aid in bittering.

So for method I am thinking of doing something like this:


crush coriander seed, bring say 500ml of water to boil and then add coriander seed, bring back to boil and immediately switch off. Once temp has dropped to 80 degrees C add in 2.5 tablespoons of fresh orange zest with some pith.

Leave to steep while dissolving LME and DME in boiled water from the jug. Once dissolved strain coriander and orange into fermenter through sieve. Poor extract into fermenter through sieve, top up with boiled, cooled water to volume.

What do you recon? Any suggestions for improvements?

 

[IslandLizard]

Good plan. A few notes to consider.

Don't crush the coriander too fine, like powder, or you won't be able to strain it out.
You are boiling hops aren't you? I don't see them in your recipe or boil schedule.

With extract brews, only add 1/3 of the extract at the beginning of boil, and the balance after flame out. It prevents scorching and off flavors. When you add the first 1/3 make sure to stir well so nothing sticks to the bottom of the pot, and turn the heat off while adding and mixing. Scorched extract tastes horrible.

Pith...
I've never added white pith to my (spiced) beers. Although I suggested it before, I'm not 100% sure if the obtained bitterness is kind that we want in our beer. I've never tested it. I would probably add a little more bittering hops, or just not worry and leave it out. Or be adventurous...

Another thing. Dried spices in jars can be years old and may not have much flavor left. So when possible I like to use fresh or freshest possible.

The reason I steer away from boiling orange zest for a long time is the dark flavor it leaves behind. I made a Christmas Ale and boiled zest in 3 additions. Next time I'd just steep, like you're doing.

When tasting your hydrometer sample you may note an overwhelming orange flavor and aroma. Don't be too concerned it will subside drastically after fermentation. My latest Saison had 1/2 oz red grapefruit zest added and I could not detect it after most of the fermentation had completed. Perhaps it is being masked or just contributes in a non-obtrusive way. I'm doubling the amount next time.

 

[McGarnigle]

You are boiling hops aren't you? I don't see them in your recipe or boil schedule.

Whispering Wheat is a Mr Beer kit that is pre-hopped, so no need to hop it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Whispering Wheat is a Mr Beer kit that is pre-hopped, so no need to hop it.

I've never used or investigated Mr. Beer products, sorry, I'm ignorant in that field.

Do you still boil the hopped extract or just dump it in boiling water to pasteurize it? Then add your adjuncts, spices, etc.? That wheat DME needs to be boiled isn't it? At least I've always boiled DME.

 

[bregiz]

It was suggested in another thread that if you are not adding hops then it is best to just dissolve lme and dme in boiling water. That way you do not risk darkening the brew, and will not loose as much of the finer aroma notes through boiling.

Having said that, the book I am referencing suggests boiling lme kits for 15 minutes to improve your beer, so perhaps there is some debate on the subject?

 

[McGarnigle]

I've never used or investigated Mr. Beer products, sorry, I'm ignorant in that field.

Do you still boil the hopped extract or just dump it in boiling water to pasteurize it? Then add your adjuncts, spices, etc.? That wheat DME needs to be boiled isn't it? At least I've always boiled DME.

The instructions are to bring water to a boil and stir so the extract dissolves. This will also provide enough heat to pasteurize it. But long boiling will ruin any hop flavor subtleties.

http://www.mrbeer.com/images/pdf/MB11-Inst-PREM-DLX.pdf

I've never actually used a Mr Beer kit either but the same principles apply to, say, pre-hopped Cooper's or Munton's kits.

The (unhopped) wheat DME could be boiled longer, but doesn't really need it unless you have extra hop additions. He also has grains to steep, so to be honest, it becomes involved (not difficult, but several steps). You need to sanitize both extracts, but not boil the Mr Beer kit for any length. The spices should be boiled for only a few minutes at most (as you say).

Also: Mr Beer seems to use only a little water to dissolve, then rely on cool water to chill for yeast pitching. But if more water for the grains and DME, adjustments have to be made.

 

[bregiz]

OK so, I have brewed this all up and everything went without a hitch, untill i went to pour through the sieve for aeration. This caused a bit of spillage and as a result the OG was about 1.036 instead of what the recipe suggests which is 1.046, so it looks like I am going to be stuck with a hoegaarden light unless I do something about it.

I have pitched the yeast at about 29 degrees C and it is sitting in the ferm chamber with my IPA set for 19.5 degrees C

I was wondering, could I remedy the problem of a low OG by buying some dextrose tomorrow, dissolving it in water and then adding that to the fermentor? or is that going to impact on negatively on the brew?

alternatively I have a coopers brew enhancer 2 kit sitting here that I could pilfer for teh cause if I need to act sooner.

Cheers in advance for your help. I really hope there is a way we can save this batch from becoming hoegaarden light!

 

[KepowOb]

OK so, I have brewed this all up and everything went without a hitch, untill i went to pour through the sieve for aeration. This caused a bit of spillage and as a result the OG was about 1.036 instead of what the recipe suggests which is 1.046, so it looks like I am going to be stuck with a hoegaarden light unless I do something about it.

I have pitched the yeast at about 29 degrees C and it is sitting in the ferm chamber with my IPA set for 19.5 degrees C

I was wondering, could I remedy the problem of a low OG by buying some dextrose tomorrow, dissolving it in water and then adding that to the fermentor? or is that going to impact on negatively on the brew?

alternatively I have a coopers brew enhancer 2 kit sitting here that I could pilfer for teh cause if I need to act sooner.

Cheers in advance for your help. I really hope there is a way we can save this batch from becoming hoegaarden light!

I don't think the spillage would account for such a low OG. More likely is that you didn't mix your wort with the fresh water very well and it gave you a bad reading. It's very hard to get a good mix, so don't worry about it. What happens is the wort is heavier than the water, so even if you mix it like stink, it probably didn't mix perfectly, and then when you take your sample, it comes out low, since the more dense stuff is at the bottom.. If you had the right volumes of everything, you'll have hit your OG, even with the spillage (unless you spilt before you added water, and it was a decent amount??).

 

[bregiz]

I did spill before adding the water.

The extract was dissolved in between 3-4l of water and spilt while pooring into carboy.

The spillage amount is hard to say, but suffice to say there was a decen t mess left to clean up from the kitchen floor. Maybe 500ml? Who knows.

the malt wad mixed pretty thourou gh ly with the boiling water, but after topping up in the carboy I only mixed for 30 seconds or so and then gave it a good shake when I afded the yeast.

The brew is bubbling away like crazy in fermentor now, so I fear it might be to late to do anything about it.

 

[KepowOb]

I did spill before adding the water.

The extract was dissolved in between 3-4l of water and spilt while pooring into carboy.

The spillage amount is hard to say, but suffice to say there was a decen t mess left to clean up from the kitchen floor. Maybe 500ml? Who knows.

the malt wad mixed pretty thourou gh ly with the boiling water, but after topping up in the carboy I only mixed for 30 seconds or so and then gave it a good shake when I afded the yeast.

The brew is bubbling away like crazy in fermentor now, so I fear it might be to late to do anything about it.

500ml won't be enough to take your gravity down that much... If its fermenting away, it means you'll have beer and it'll probably be pretty good. Relax, try not to think about it much for a couple of weeks and then worry about bottling .

 

[jclarkey]

OK so, I have brewed this all up and everything went without a hitch, untill i went to pour through the sieve for aeration. This caused a bit of spillage and as a result the OG was about 1.036 instead of what the recipe suggests which is 1.046, so it looks like I am going to be stuck with a hoegaarden light unless I do something about it.

I have pitched the yeast at about 29 degrees C and it is sitting in the ferm chamber with my IPA set for 19.5 degrees C

I was wondering, could I remedy the problem of a low OG by buying some dextrose tomorrow, dissolving it in water and then adding that to the fermentor? or is that going to impact on negatively on the brew?

alternatively I have a coopers brew enhancer 2 kit sitting here that I could pilfer for teh cause if I need to act sooner.

Cheers in advance for your help. I really hope there is a way we can save this batch from becoming hoegaarden light!

I am looking to copy your recipe and wondered what process you used. Did you boil the extract and DME together for 30 min or just at the DME at the end? Did you only boil half the volume as per the Extract Can instructions?

 

[2_gal_brewer]

I see reference to Mr Beer Hopped extract. This particular variety has been updated and renamed. Best to look at their website and their forums if you want instruction using their stuff. They are very helpful. I make Wit beers using their hopped extract. I am still trying for something that tastes like Hoegaarden though - although what I make is very drinkable.