Beersmith just released the new version

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The most important thing for me was the ability to copy/paste in the recipe window. It was one of the most blatant oversights on the previous version. Also on the add window, you can add without closing so adding 5 additions of the same hop is very easy (and if you had to modify the Alphas on the fly, you don't have to keep changing it).

When I have to bang out recipies for customers while they wait, it's a huge speed improvement.
 
So far I don't see anything that is not an improvement or something that can be ignored/turned off. Go ahead and download the upgrade.
 
Just reading this thread and realized what a bunch of old farts, set in our ways we are..... Live on the edge and download the damn update....

Ok so you and the others inspired me to go where a lot of us borderline baby boomers/generation X's (old farts) fear to tread. So I took the plunge and I pressed the button. I couldn't believe it. It didn't hurt, it was easy, it had a green update bar that updated as it progressed and actually showed it extracting my recipes and files, pasting them where they belong. It was like a magic button. I was like Whoa, No way....It was fast too. For a brief moment I felt a little less like an old fart and wasn't grumpy at all. For a second or two I could relate to what a computer tech savy millennial must feel like in their day to day life. Thanks to all of you for your posts it gave me confidence to go for it, and thanks BeerSmith for a smooth ride and update! I think I might throw out my tube of Bengay! Cheers to you all :mug:

John
 
I upgraded the other day and took a look at the mash PH functionality yesterday. It does not seem very accurate which is kind of disappointing. It looks like it only takes into consideration your water (which is good) and then the total weight of the grains. It is on the mash page, and a stand alone tool under Tools >> Mash pH.

If you go to one of your recipes and compare the estimated mash pH with the stand lone tool by just entering the total weight of the grist, the estimated mash pH is the same. So unless I am missing something, it doesn't seem to take into account the color of your beer or the grains.

You have to build a desired water profile and add the appropriate mash volume into the recipe.(Similar to the profiles that are preloaded into Bru'n Water.) Below is a detailed use of the tool.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2016/08/10/using-the-new-brewing-water-and-mash-ph-tools-in-beersmith-2-3/

It works pretty well. I compared this to Bru'n water and found that it was a little different plus it utilizes chalk as an additive which can easily be overcome by deleting the recommended amount of chalk and increasing the calcium chloride to bring the Ca total back up.
The estimated PH on the mash screen is the water profile and grain ONLY. The target PH is what calculates the amount of acid addition to reach the desired PH. The only issue I have with this tool is that I like to add salts to my sparge water and there is apparently no way to accomplish this.
It does however recommend the amount of the acid addition to maintain the sparge water PH below 6.
I will try it on my next brew to see how accurate it is.
 
You have to build a desired water profile and add the appropriate mash volume into the recipe.(Similar to the profiles that are preloaded into Bru'n Water.)...

Yeah, I did that and used the water tool to estimate salt additions to match profiles. I even went through and entered in all the profiles from Bru'n Water. Well the yellow, amber, and black for dry, balanced, and full. I saved those as profiles, so now when I add water to the recipe it gives me the required salt additions in the ingredients list that I need to add to my water to hit the numbers. My city water is pretty good, just a bit high on bicarbonate at 149 ppm and low on all the others. My Ca is 31 and all the rest are 13 or less.

I looked at it again today with a couple of my recipes and compared it to Bru'n water and Brewer's Friend. It looks like the estimated mash pH without any acid additions are all pretty close. It is when you start adding acid to drop the pH that I can see some discrepancies.

I am interested in hearing your results on your next brew day. It would be great if BrewSmith is "close enough." Having one program to do it all would be nice. I'll probably go with BrewSmith's numbers on my next brew since I don't have a pH meter anyway, so I have been flying blind already. :)
 
It is when you start adding acid to drop the pH that I can see some discrepancies.

I downloaded the update today as well and definitely noticed some major discrepancies vs. BrunWater for acid addition.

My water is:
Ca = 60
Mg = 19
Na = 16
SO4 = 19
Cl = 25
HCO3 = 165
pH = 7.7

I tried looking at BeerSmith's estimated mash pH and recommended acid additions and they're quite a bit off from BrunWater from what I can tell. For example one of my recent brews... a saison where BrunWater recommends 4.7 mL 88% lactic in the mash (target mash pH = 5.3) and 3.1 mL lactic in the sparge. BeerSmith is recommending 8.8 mL in the mash (to hit the same 5.3) and 4.2 in the sparge.

I typically test pH 15 mins into the mash and BrunWater seems to do a good job of getting me +/- 0.1 pH.

Any ideas where the discrepancy is coming from?
 
Where do we add our mash acid(s)? I see that in some recipes, but I don't see it in "misc" or in another ingredients area.

in a recipe switch from "Design" to "Mash" tab and scroll down to "Mash pH Acid additions".
 
in a recipe switch from "Design" to "Mash" tab and scroll down to "Mash pH Acid additions".

This is where you can see what the recommended acid additions are. I don't believe you can actually change the amounts unless you change the Target PH value. Its appears to be a function of the software only.
 
So in comparison to Bru'n Water I have input the same recipe in both and came up with the following information.
I created the RO profile for my Base Profile with numbers from Bru'n Water so that we started on a level playing field.

Using the Amber Balanced Profile from Bru'n Water I created this as a profile in Beersmith.
Ca - 50
Mg - 10
Na - 15
SO4 - 75
Cl - 63
HCO3 - 40

With the same mash water amount and eliminating the sparge water addition from Bru'n Water since this is not a possibility of adjustment with salts in Beersmith, I adjusted Bru'n Water to equal values of each mineral as Beersmith recommends.
The total results were for 5.74 gallons of mash water volume:
Bru'n Water Mashing Water Profile:
Ca - 63.1, Mg - 10.4, Na - 15.6, SO4 - 75.5, Cl - 89.2, HCO3 - 36.1
Estimated Mash PH - 5.44
Beersmith -
Ca - 50.9, Mg - 10.5, Na - 15.6, SO4 - 74.9, Cl - 68.4, HCO3 - 35.9
Estimated Mash PH - 5.38

Beersmith wants to add chalk to this grain bill but I removed it and increased the Calcium Chloride to get the Ca concentration to be equal.

With normal Sparge water additions in Bru'n water it asks for additional salts and acid additions. Beersmith only gives the ability of acid additions.

I'll try it on my next batch to see how accurate it is.
 
The most important thing for me was the ability to copy/paste in the recipe window. It was one of the most blatant oversights on the previous version. Also on the add window, you can add without closing so adding 5 additions of the same hop is very easy (and if you had to modify the Alphas on the fly, you don't have to keep changing it).

When I have to bang out recipies for customers while they wait, it's a huge speed improvement.

Bobby: can you explain the copy paste function your talking about? where and how are you able to do that? I'm not able to copy and past from one recipe to another.
 
OK..I have to use cntl+D but it does work. Cntl+P goes into print mode for me. I still think choosing grains or hops is harder then it should be. Sure you can now not have the window close on you every time but why not be able to hold down the control key and choose multiple ones all at once? Come on Brad!! Really.
 
I downloaded the update today as well and definitely noticed some major discrepancies vs. BrunWater for acid addition.



My water is:

Ca = 60

Mg = 19

Na = 16

SO4 = 19

Cl = 25

HCO3 = 165

pH = 7.7



I tried looking at BeerSmith's estimated mash pH and recommended acid additions and they're quite a bit off from BrunWater from what I can tell. For example one of my recent brews... a saison where BrunWater recommends 4.7 mL 88% lactic in the mash (target mash pH = 5.3) and 3.1 mL lactic in the sparge. BeerSmith is recommending 8.8 mL in the mash (to hit the same 5.3) and 4.2 in the sparge.



I typically test pH 15 mins into the mash and BrunWater seems to do a good job of getting me +/- 0.1 pH.



Any ideas where the discrepancy is coming from?


I'm not sure about the discrepancies, but acid malts in beersmith do not change the PH. Brad states best practices would be to measure PH, then adjust from there with acid malt. I've also noticed there is no sparge additions for the water. But I have noticed that the additions seem to line up minus the 2 things noted above. At least on one recipe entered into both beersmith and brunwater
 
Here's another interesting tidbit I stumbled on to. My recipes for Irish red look different color-wise between BJCP '08 & '15 guidelines? '15 is a bit lighter?
 
Here's another interesting tidbit I stumbled on to. My recipes for Irish red look different color-wise between BJCP '08 & '15 guidelines? '15 is a bit lighter?

You are correct. 2008 guidelines have a color range of 9 to 18 SRM, the new 2015 changed to 9 to 14 SRM. Personally, I will continue with my recipe having a color of 16 SRM (15.8 by analysis) because that gives a nice rich reddish hue.
 
I'm not sure about the discrepancies, but acid malts in beersmith do not change the PH. Brad states best practices would be to measure PH, then adjust from there with acid malt. I've also noticed there is no sparge additions for the water. But I have noticed that the additions seem to line up minus the 2 things noted above. At least on one recipe entered into both beersmith and brunwater

Hmm. I'm not using acid malt but rather 88% lactic and I did set up a water profile for my home tap water which I entered as an ingredient.

I will have another look at it tonight. Yesterday I entered in a dunkelweizen that according to BrunWater should need no water adjustment whatsoever. BeerSmith still has the predicted mash pH as quite high.
 
I will have another look at it tonight. Yesterday I entered in a dunkelweizen that according to BrunWater should need no water adjustment whatsoever. BeerSmith still has the predicted mash pH as quite high.

Should also mention that interestingly, for the few recipes that I've played around with so far... some needing quite a bit of pH adjustment (Pils) ... others none at all (Dunkel)... BrunWater and BeerSmith calculate the RA as the same. Just the estimated mash pH is different...
 
I just tried to download the update and its working fine to replace the file but when I open Beersmith I don't think I have the updated version. Im not seeing any of the stuff everyone is talking about. Has anyone else had this happen?
 
FWIW, I took a couple of my archived brews from last winter and looked them out with the new water profile. BeerSmith's predicted pH was much closer to my actual readings than the print out from BrunWater. Neither is perfect, but that because the modeling calculations cannot account for other ions in the water and interactions with added minerals and salts. I am a little disappointed that BeerSmith does not include the effect of acidulated malts.
 
I just tried to download the update and its working fine to replace the file but when I open Beersmith I don't think I have the updated version. Im not seeing any of the stuff everyone is talking about. Has anyone else had this happen?


Check your application file. It installs it as just BeerSmith 2 w/ no version extension. Check for install date, too.
I just renamed it.
 
I just tried to download the update and its working fine to replace the file but when I open Beersmith I don't think I have the updated version. Im not seeing any of the stuff everyone is talking about. Has anyone else had this happen?

Interesting, you should see it when you scroll down in the mash section. You should also have a session tab and have more fields and the measured values are also now in yellow. There are more changes but these are the most obvious right off the bat.

John
 
The new versions brew sheet prints out over three pages. That needs to be addressed and scaled down to one sheet. It's my biggest peeve about BS that has never been fixed. A new template would be nice.
 
The new versions brew sheet prints out over three pages. That needs to be addressed and scaled down to one sheet. It's my biggest peeve about BS that has never been fixed. A new template would be nice.

I you are using Windoze, then you can scale the print out on the preview page. You can also write your own brew sheet since they are html files that fits to your need. There are several that others have written out there in other threads both on HBT and the BeerSmith forums if you search.
 
The new versions brew sheet prints out over three pages. That needs to be addressed and scaled down to one sheet. It's my biggest peeve about BS that has never been fixed. A new template would be nice.

I definitely recommend reading up on creating your own custom brew sheets. It's not very hard once you understand the process. I'm about to get all my BS installation sync'ed up and get all custom reports created. The defaults are ok, but I never understood why they needed to span multiple pages.
 
FWIW, I took a couple of my archived brews from last winter and looked them out with the new water profile. BeerSmith's predicted pH was much closer to my actual readings than the print out from BrunWater. Neither is perfect, but that because the modeling calculations cannot account for other ions in the water and interactions with added minerals and salts. I am a little disappointed that BeerSmith does not include the effect of acidulated malts.

This is interesting. I was hoping that this tool would work out. The biggest issue I have is that I use RO water and generally add salts to sparge water as well as mash water and the Beersmith tool doesn't allow that option. I suppose I will try a small batch of my pale ale this weekend using Beersmith's water tool and see how it compares. If anyone is using this tool with or without success, please speak up.
 
Really, all I need is a place to store mash and sparge water salt amounts after I calculate with Bru'nwater.

I haven't built a recipe with it yet, but plan to soon. Maybe I can play with it at work today for a bit.
 
Really, all I need is a place to store mash and sparge water salt amounts after I calculate with Bru'nwater.

I haven't built a recipe with it yet, but plan to soon. Maybe I can play with it at work today for a bit.

If you have your water profiles with salt additions required to meet your target, when you add that water to your recipe BeerSmith asks if you want to add the minerals to your ingredients. When selecting yes, it will add the minerals required to meet your target based on the amount of water you added to the recipe.

When the salts are added to the recipe, they default to being used in the mash. You can then double click and change that to boil, primary, etc.

For example, I am going to probably do is this:

1. Recipe calls for 5 gallons strike water and 4 gallons sparge water
2. Create a water profile including the needed salts and have one name appended with "strike" and the other with "sparge"
3. I can then add 5 gallons of strike water >> select yes to add minerals
4. Then add the 4 gallons of sparge water >> yes to add minerals
5. Edit the sparge mineral additions and change the "Mash" to "Boil"

Doing the above is sort of a pain, but at least everything is in the ingredients list. However, with two separate waters in your ingredients, even if they are the same water just different amounts, then on the mash tab, the water in the Estimated Mash pH says "Mixed Profiles."

I don't know how having two different water profiles in your ingredient list will affect the pH calculation.
 
If you have your water profiles with salt additions required to meet your target, when you add that water to your recipe BeerSmith asks if you want to add the minerals to your ingredients. When selecting yes, it will add the minerals required to meet your target based on the amount of water you added to the recipe.

When the salts are added to the recipe, they default to being used in the mash. You can then double click and change that to boil, primary, etc.

For example, I am going to probably do is this:

1. Recipe calls for 5 gallons strike water and 4 gallons sparge water
2. Create a water profile including the needed salts and have one name appended with "strike" and the other with "sparge"
3. I can then add 5 gallons of strike water >> select yes to add minerals
4. Then add the 4 gallons of sparge water >> yes to add minerals
5. Edit the sparge mineral additions and change the "Mash" to "Boil"

Doing the above is sort of a pain, but at least everything is in the ingredients list. However, with two separate waters in your ingredients, even if they are the same water just different amounts, then on the mash tab, the water in the Estimated Mash pH says "Mixed Profiles."

I don't know how having two different water profiles in your ingredient list will affect the pH calculation.

Yeah, I'm not doing all that. I really just need some static fields added to the recipe where I can input the amounts of each salt, usually just Gypsum and CaCl, and some acid and it will stick with the recipe. Maybe a text box to state the percentage of RO water vs Tap. I usually use RO unless it's a dark beer.

I suppose I could add places in the report to write it, but then it won't stick with the recipe inside BS.

Right now I keep a copy of each Bru'nwater calculation, and I print that or write the amounts down somewhere, but they aren't WITH the recipe in BS.
 
It wouldn't show up with the ingredients on the design tab but you could always write all that stuff in the notes tab. I know it's not what you were looking for but at least it saves with the recipe. As long as you review the notes before you brew you'll know exactly what you did.
 
It wouldn't show up with the ingredients on the design tab but you could always write all that stuff in the notes tab. I know it's not what you were looking for but at least it saves with the recipe. As long as you review the notes before you brew you'll know exactly what you did.

That's actually a good way to do it. I have never thought of putting notes in my recipes.
 
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