Attempting a (m)Oktoberfest Beer

[DerNaschkatze]

Hey all, we're going to try our 4th brew soonish, and 2nd all-grain. We were thinking about doing an Oktoberfest, but unfortunately don't have the necessary equipment to lager. So we settled on doing the Märzen style, but as an ale.

Our draft recipe is below, cobbled together from other recipes. We'd like a little bit of help with it, though. Any comments or suggestions to it?

Recipe Name: (m)Oktoberfest
Type: All Grain
Style: Märzen

Batch Size: 5.00 Gallons
Boil Length: 60 Minutes
OG: 1.056
FG: 1.011
ABV: 5.9%
IBU: 22
SRM: 12

3.50lb Bonlander Munich 10L (31.11%)
3.50lb Vienna (31.11%)
3.00lb Pilsen (26.67%)
0.50lb Caramel Munich 60L (4.44%)
0.50lb Aromatic (4.44%)
0.25lb Melanoidin (2.22%)

0.5 oz Hallertau - Boil - 45 Minute
0.5 oz Tettnang - Boil - 45 Minute
0.5 oz Tettnang - Boil - 30 Minute
0.5 oz Hallertau - Boil - 30 Minute

Safale K-97 Dry Yeast


Thoughts?

 

[dmtaylor]

Looks good. I might take the CaraMunich down from 0.5 lb to 0.25 lb, that's my only comment on the grist. Hops are good. K-97 will probably work great although I haven't used it yet but plan to in near future. I can tell you I just made a maibock with S-189 yeast at 65 F and it turned out excellent, so that yeast is a winner too if you want to try something different.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[thehaze]

You could use SafLager W-34/70, which makes nice lagers even at " ale " temps. There is a large thread about it here on this forum.

 

[dmtaylor]

(I'm not a fan of W-34/70 at all. Tried it several times and it kind of sucks. YMMV.)

 

[rodwha]

I don’t want to tie up my fermentation chamber like that and am more than happy making ales. WLP001/US-05 has made clean enough pseudo lagers for me with a Schwarzbier and planned on trying other styles such as a Märzen.

Please come back with your results if/when you brew this!

 

[Lefou]

Another up vote for using WLP001 if you want an ale yeast for your Marzen. Try to keep ferment temps lower.

 

[azmark]

Did mine with 34/70. Started at about 63 F and let it slowly raise through fermentation to about 68 F. Best Octoberfest I've ever had!

 

[lumpher]

Try this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/biermunchers-oktoberfast-ale-ag.39021/

Never tried a BierMuncher recipe I didn't like.

 

[catdaddy66]

(I'm not a fan of W-34/70 at all. Tried it several times and it kind of sucks. YMMV.)

I hear so many people use this yeast. A few of my brewing friends like it but I have never tried it (though I have a pack available). I have tried s-189, wlp800 (made a great steam ale) and some other strains that aren't European.

What is the knock on 34/70?

 

[dmtaylor]

I hear so many people use this yeast. A few of my brewing friends like it but I have never tried it (though I have a pack available). I have tried s-189, wlp800 (made a great steam ale) and some other strains that aren't European.

What is the knock on 34/70?

It might just be my own experience, but I've tried it at least 2 or 3 times, and it just was not as good as any of the other lager yeasts I have ever used including S-189, 2206, and 2308. I want my lagers to taste "German". The latter 3 yeasts will do that. But W-34/70 doesn't for me. Not sure why, just doesn't.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I made an Oktoberfest with WLP 810 San Francisco Lager and was very pleased with the yeast profile at lager temps. My grist was much different than the standard Oktoberfest though, so even though I liked my beer, I would probably use a more standard grist. Is would look like yours but the ratio of Vienna to Munich would have Vienna at 2:1.

I also didn’t have any late addition hops, just Hallertau for bittering.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Fermenting with ale yeast at ale temps will not give you a clean lager flavor.

I made a couple Oktoberfest brews in March with German lager yeast. The samples are tasting pretty good.

 

[rodwha]

Fermenting with ale yeast at ale temps will not give you a clean lager flavor.

I made a couple Oktoberfest brews in March with German lager yeast. The samples are tasting pretty good.

Granted I’ve not had a German made Schwarzbier but the locally made ones taste just like the one I’ve made using WLP001 and US-05 at 65*. Can’t say what yeast they used but I’m not sure you can call it a Schwarzbier if you used an ale yeast.

No doubt having a roasty character, if you can really call it that, isn’t comparable to something more subtle. I’d venture to guess a Marzen style wouldn’t be so easy to pick up on a cleaner ale yeast used though.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Granted I’ve not had a German made Schwarzbier but the locally made ones taste just like the one I’ve made using WLP001 and US-05 at 65*. Can’t say what yeast they used but I’m not sure you can call it a Schwarzbier if you used an ale yeast.

No doubt having a roasty character, if you can really call it that, isn’t comparable to something more subtle. I’d venture to guess a Marzen style wouldn’t be so easy to pick up on a cleaner ale yeast used though.

I lived in Germany for 9 years. I did PLENTY of "research" on their beers. Most Schwarzbiers use less roasted malt than a Stout or none at all. They don't taste burnt or roasty.

 

[rodwha]

I lived in Germany for 9 years. I did PLENTY of "research" on their beers. Most Schwarzbiers use less roasted malt than a Stout or none at all. They don't taste burnt or roasty.

Sure. Not roasty like a stout but most certainly has a quality not found in anything less than dark. I mistakenly found what I made using a lot of Midnight Wheat in an attempt to make a black beer that tasted more like an amber seeing my neighbor turn down a black IPA I had feeling that black color which to him meant thick and strong and roasty.

Midnight Wheat and crystal malt is hardly anything like a stout or porter, but it still has a quality to it that doesn’t fit elsewhere. Not exactly roasty but has more of a “darker” quality than just using dark crystal malts or some such.

Wish I had your opportunity. Was given the chance but didn’t go with my family when stationed there. Tired of moving so much and losing friends and whatnot.

 

[DerNaschkatze]

Anyway, I've got this in the fermenter right now, sitting at 60F (15-16C). OG came in a little low at 1.055, but I've still got to work on that anyway (sparge method needs work). This is the recipe I ended up using:

Recipe Name: (m)Oktoberfest
Type: All Grain
Style: Märzen

Mash: 60 min @ 152F
Batch Size: 5.00 Gallons
Boil Length: 60 Minutes
OG: 1.055
EST FG: 1.013
EST ABV: 5.6%
IBU: 22.6
SRM: 10.4

4.00 lb Bonlander Munich 10L (32.7%)
4.00 lb Vienna (32.7%)
3.00 lb Pilsen (24.5%)
0.50 lb Aromatic (4.1%)
0.50 lb Melanoidin (4.1%)
0.25 lb Caramel Munich 60L (2.0%)

0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh - Boil - 45 Minutes
0.5 oz Tettnanger - Boil - 45 Minutes
0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh- Boil - 30 Minutes
0.5 oz Tettnanger - Boil - 30 Minutes

Safale K-97 Dry Yeast

I chose K-97 because it left a very clean profile for me in the past (even before I had somewhat decent temp control), similar to what one might want in a lager. I figured fermenting on the lower side this time mimics a lager as best an ale could.

Its currently at 36 hrs and bubbling away with a nice thick krausen on top. I will probably let this go for 2 weeks, and then give it a cold crash for a bit before bottling.

 

[Gemadrken]

Oktoberfest is one of my favorite styles, and I don't have equipment to lager either. I'm quite interested in how this turns out

 

[BruceH]

Anyway, I've got this in the fermenter right now, sitting at 60F (15-16C). OG came in a little low at 1.055, but I've still got to work on that anyway (sparge method needs work). This is the recipe I ended up using:

Recipe Name: (m)Oktoberfest
Type: All Grain
Style: Märzen

Mash: 60 min @ 152F
Batch Size: 5.00 Gallons
Boil Length: 60 Minutes
OG: 1.055
EST FG: 1.013
EST ABV: 5.6%
IBU: 22.6
SRM: 10.4

4.00 lb Bonlander Munich 10L (32.7%)
4.00 lb Vienna (32.7%)
3.00 lb Pilsen (24.5%)
0.50 lb Aromatic (4.1%)
0.50 lb Melanoidin (4.1%)
0.25 lb Caramel Munich 60L (2.0%)

0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh - Boil - 45 Minutes
0.5 oz Tettnanger - Boil - 45 Minutes
0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh- Boil - 30 Minutes
0.5 oz Tettnanger - Boil - 30 Minutes

Safale K-97 Dry Yeast

I chose K-97 because it left a very clean profile for me in the past (even before I had somewhat decent temp control), similar to what one might want in a lager. I figured fermenting on the lower side this time mimics a lager as best an ale could.

Its currently at 36 hrs and bubbling away with a nice thick krausen on top. I will probably let this go for 2 weeks, and then give it a cold crash for a bit before bottling.

Keep an eye on the K-97. I had to turn a closed ferment into an open ferment when using that yeast. It blew the top off of the bucket fermenter.

I don't claim to be a beer brewing expert. I'm still in the experimenting phase and learning as much as I can based on my results. Having said that I'll share an all grain recipe that tastes like a good Oktoberfest. This ended up as a 5.25 gallon batch after the boil. I started with about 7.25 gallons of water. Could be a little more or less, there are no markings on my kettle but I know about where 7 gallons fills it to. It was a BIAB.

10.5 lbs. Lt Munich (10L)

(These temps were all experimental. Chances are that other temps/times will work as well or better)
30 minutes at 143
30 minutes at 151
30 minutes at 159

60 minute boil

.5 oz US Tettnager 4.9% 60 min
1 oz Sazz 2.8% 60 min

34/70 yeast fermented at 62 degrees. This temp was the consistent cold spot in one closet. No other reason for 62 degrees, other temps may work the same, better, or worse. I'm working with what I have and trying to keep it simple.

3 week ferment, two weeks bottle conditioning, 4 weeks in a 40 degree refrigerator.

Good luck on the K-97 batch. I do like the taste of the two brews I've used it in. Not a fan of the fermenter lid blowing off though.

 

[DerNaschkatze]

Yeah, as of this morning at 8:15, it was already looking like it might be making a run for it! Got about a gallon of krausen there. Thats at 60 hrs or so.

 

[DerNaschkatze]

So we fermented at 60F for a week, and took a reading: 1.016. I ramped it up to 68F for about 5 days, before dropping it to 38F for 3 days. We bottled today.

It was beautifully clear, and tasted quite nice (w/o maturation or carbonation). FG was 1.008, a little lower than we intended but it works. We'll let this sit in the bottles for probably 4 weeks before we pop 'em.

 

[brewbama]

So we fermented at 60F for a week, and took a reading: 1.016. I ramped it up to 68F for about 5 days, before dropping it to 38F for 3 days. We bottled today.

It was beautifully clear, and tasted quite nice (w/o maturation or carbonation). FG was 1.008, a little lower than we intended but it works. We'll let this sit in the bottles for probably 4 weeks before we pop 'em.

85% apparent attenuation. Impressive 6.17% ABV.

You should crack them open Saturday, September 22nd.
https://www.oktoberfest.de/en/artic...st/Dates,+Opening+Times+and+General+FAQs/751/

 

[DerNaschkatze]

So our Father couldn't resist opening one (I know, its wayyyyyy too early, but who cares), and we tried it. And I have to say I'm impressed. Though its def green by oktoberfest standards, it is an ale so I suppose its not too bad.

Caramel, malty. Possible biscuit or slight breadiness. Honey. Medium body (we added a bit of maltodextrin at bottling to help), slight carbonation (will improve with more time). Ton of flavor up front, lingering subtle malt flavor. Not at all cloying, but little to no hop aroma. Balanced with a malt-forward profile.

Color was a brilliant amber-red, with a thick and retentive head.

Looking forward to seeing how this matures, though I hope it will last to actual Oktoberfest!

 

[Steveruch]

Wyeast's pacman yeast makes a pretty good mock lager in the mid 60s.

 

[DerNaschkatze]

Hey all, another update. The beer (now a little over 1 month old) is phenomenal. Its gotten rave reviews from all that have tried it. This seems to be a malt-lover's dream.

People are constantly requesting that we brew this again, even though we still have numerous bottles left. Lets see how long those last though! Can definitely see us brewing this by the years end, regardless of time of year!

 

[homebrewer_99]

IMO, you'd be better off just brewing an O'fest recipe with ale yeast and NOT asking for anyone's opinion...

 

[Lefou]

If you can keep the fermentation temps low, say 60F-65F ambient, using a clean ale yeast and cold-aging the bottles should be a good way to mimic a lager.