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Alright so a lot of you must be confused by what I'm trying to say. I'll break it down for you guys. First this is a HOMEBREW website and a lot of homebrewers can afford fancy microscopes and testers to measure there yeast vitality. Second out of the commercial brewerys you are talking about don't you think maybe just maybe they did everything right and still had a bad batch of beer even when they followed each step to the tee? I bet you a million dollars 8/10 it wasn't because of bad hops or bad grains but bad yeast and yeast acting differently than expected.

Chris White, you know the guy that founded White Labs. In his book he even said commercial brewery's don't make the same exact beer from batch to batch. This is due to yeast acting on its own and possible changing the outcome of the beers overall taste. If you think you can make the same beer 100% of the time with no differences in taste, attenuation, flocculation, etc than maybe its time to take your head out of your ### and change your views. I'm not claiming to be all knowing...actually I'm claiming to not be all knowing, not even close. Like I said before yes you can control yeast to pinpoint accuracy and follow GUIDELINES on how to brew your beer but when it all comes down to it "even the pros know yeast is hard to control".

The founder of White Labs says ever brew is varied and that is because yeast can do a lot of mysterious things even when you do everything right. Could be oxygen levels at a 8% diffusion rather than 8.1% dust in the it could have gotten in. Your mash temp could be 1 F too high even though you read its the right temp. Yes you can recreate beer to almost exact but saying you know what yeast is going to do 100% of the time is pure ignorance. Like I said if you knew exactly what yeast was going to do than no one would ever have a bad batch period especially not the pro's. Maybe its time to be humble and realize you don't know everything because I sure as hell don't but I do know that someone with a PH.D and works with yeast his whole life says yeast is unpredictable and even minuscule changes to ANYTHING can affect its behavior.

For a good read go pick yourself up Yeast by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff. Educate yourselfs and don't take my word or anyone else's as truth. As for you Cj and Brett. I don't know what its like to be the gods of brewing and claiming to have a 100% success rate at making yeast do what you want EVERY time, maybe you should write a book on how to do it. That information would be very helpful to a lot of people. I would definitely pick it up! Cheers everyone!
 
I'm a golden God.....of brewing! That's awesome. I knew I'd make something of myself someday:D:cool:

Seriously though, I never claimed to be 100% spot on. In fact, with all the things I do in the name of consistency, the one guarantee I can make is nothing it's guaranteed. A big part of brewing consistently is to read the ferment and have a feel for what is happening with the yeast. This has been well covered by Zainasheff throughout the years with both brew strong and the yeast book. Commercial beers are not as effected by this due to the constancy of their process (relative to the homebrewer). I fear I will now be ridiculed as a 'yeast Whisperer' as has already happened to other good brewers in this thread. Wait, is that a bad thing? If we are going to quote Zainasheff and white in this dialog I would add that Zainasheff has said that you must be "a bit of a yeast whisperer".

Either way I'm scared of being labeled... I suppose I'll go hide my head in the sand, or back up my #$$. This thread is sooooooo gonna get locked:sly:
 
That's okay if it does get locked its intended purpose was a dumb idea admittedly. I was not calling anyone a bad brewer and agree with many points both you and brett have made. That being said my point has been proven and hopefully has finally come to fruition. What I was trying to convey is that no matter what you do you can never say without a doubt that when you have pitched your yeast you cannot claim something will or will not happen.

Going back to what first started this is when someone said sprinkling unhydrated yeast will kill half of your population which is just not true and even if it is my beer attenuated out just fine so it does work. When trying to explain my point my buddy Brett A.K.A god of yeast and #1 yeast whisper said that you can know for a fact what happens within a fermentor and made a huge generalization and said this thread is a joke (which it is). I was simply trying to gain knowledge and talk to people who know more than me about brewing beer to further myself within this industry and hopefully make some connections. Anyone of you could have said well you know think about this rather than calling another person an ### or just putting them down. The funny part is, is that your probably 35+ years old and I'm only 22.

Lets start acting our age and instead of slander someone who may or may not be wrong just explain to them and have a conversion. Lets get back to what this website really is about and that is brewing beer and spreading knowledge of this awesome craft! I'm sorry to anyone whom I offended and want to get back to answering questions and having other people provide counter points. Thanks everyone!
 
Wasn't trying to call anyone other than myself an #$$. I understand what the intent was in th op, but the idea was just sort of backwards. Either it was an unintentional fault or the original poster really is an arrogant bastard. I'm going to assume the first. I think the op was actually meat to inspire questions for us all to explore together, but it was worded in an all together different manner that sounds obscenely arrogant.

About the dry yeast...
Professionals in the yeast industry (sciency folks with PhDs and expensive microscopes who write books about this stuff) have observed a large percentage of dried (non hydrated) yeast dying in contact with wort. The dehydrated cell membrane does not have the ability to control what passes through it. The concentration of sugars in the wort is what kills them. Imagine if someone injected you with 8oz of glucose iv. Can you say diabetic comma? Death?

The ones that survive are stressed. This all leads to greater formation of esters and a less predictable ferment as well as increased chance of a stuck ferment. ALL the yeast pros say this. Zainasheff is the one who stress the ~50% kill based on his own lab work. Unlike my head, I did not pull this info out of a dark posterior crevice.

Now let's all hug and make up.:beer:
 
Northern Brewer did a video on BIAB within the past couple of years and Jake's method of pitching was to dump a dry packet in the carboy. Surprised me.
 
I like the hugging idea, it is Christmas

I never claimed to be all knowing either, this thread got a little out of hand and some of the things you posted were probably taken VERY wrong, but I had to say something. The dry yeast thing is true, but a pack of dry yeast also has a lot more cells than a pack of liquid yeast. So sprinkling dried stuff onto wort is just like every brewer who pitches one liquid pack into their 5g batch, and the end result is somewhere ball park 100b cells in there. Which is enough to ferment and make beer, but it's not ideal.

I will keep the title #1 yeast whisperer though if thats ok. I'm probably going to say sweet things to my american red that's dry hopping when I get home too. Positive reinforcement is best for dry hopping.
 
I have a question... why isn't there a random questions thread on HBT? Like... you don't want to start a thread, but can't find any info on the subject (here or elsewhere) so then you like... stew about it or something, then find this thread and post the question? I mean, wouldn't it be an awesome thread idea? I'm so cereal right now.

On that note... I've got my third batch carbing up in bottles and can actually see the yeast actively churning in there when I hold it up to the light. Is this normal?

Last one was an APA with a decent amount of hop haze, and the other was an Irish stout (couldn't see through bottle), so I haven't seen this in the bottle yet.

Just curious if this is always the case with pale/yellow beers that are pretty clear in the bottle.
 
Quote "On that note... I've got my third batch carbing up in bottles and can actually see the yeast actively churning in there when I hold it up to the light. Is this normal? "

This does not seem normal. Are you positive FG was reached before you bottled?
 
flars said:
Quote "On that note... I've got my third batch carbing up in bottles and can actually see the yeast actively churning in there when I hold it up to the light. Is this normal? "

This does not seem normal. Are you positive FG was reached before you bottled?
Click to expand...

As positive as I can be... FG was stable over 3 days, at which point I was raising the temp gradually to ensure "full" attenuation.

They are in boxes, so I'm not too concerned about bombs, but it looks interesting to say the least.
 
Psy - I jumped in too quickly with that 'yes' .. I was thinking better bottle carboy - not brown glass. Some folks do a single clear glass bottle when they package -- in order to see what's happening more easily.
 
soccerdad said:
Psy - I jumped in too quickly with that 'yes' .. I was thinking better bottle carboy - not brown glass. Some folks do a single clear glass bottle when they package -- in order to see what's happening more easily.
Click to expand...

Sooooooo.... I shouldn't be able to see them churning in there?

Yes, brown glass, held up to a light, can see the yeast getting to work in a big way.

Do I need to prepare my angus?
 
liquiditynerd said:
Why does my beer smell like a horse blanket?, who put in horse blankets?, why have I waited a year for this?, and why is it sooooooooooooooooooooo good?!?!
Click to expand...

Dry hopping for a year will do this. No one should be criticized for their tastes in beer, if you like it drink it.
 
Caution, on-topic post incoming.

I do primary only... if I put a 5 gal batch in a 7 gal glass carboy, is that to much headspace?
 
Psylocide said:
On that note... I've got my third batch carbing up in bottles and can actually see the yeast actively churning in there when I hold it up to the light. Is this normal?

Last one was an APA with a decent amount of hop haze, and the other was an Irish stout (couldn't see through bottle), so I haven't seen this in the bottle yet.

Just curious if this is always the case with pale/yellow beers that are pretty clear in the bottle.
Click to expand...

Psy - have you opened any of these yet? Or have they started opening themselves?
 
Psylocide said:
Caution, on-topic post incoming.

I do primary only... if I put a 5 gal batch in a 7 gal glass carboy, is that to much headspace?
Click to expand...

For primary, no. The CO2 created during fermentation will fill that space pretty quickly and push out the air. Most brew buckets are around 7g too.

I do 11g batches in Sankes, so I've got a 4.5g headspace with my fermenters and never had an issue with oxidation.

If you were going to secondary in that, I might flush the headspace with CO2 and flush the whole thing before you transfer into it.
 
BierGut said:
Psy - have you opened any of these yet? Or have they started opening themselves?
Click to expand...

No... they have only been in the bottles since Sunday. None have opened themselves, I'll hold one up to the light again and see if I can still see anything going on in there.

I'll hold it right at eye level for the purpose of maximum casualty if it happens to explode in my hand.

It's 5 gal of BM's Centennial Blonde extract version with an added lb of DME. Very BMC-tasting beer out of the fermenter... will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Brettomomyces said:
For primary, no. The CO2 created during fermentation will fill that space pretty quickly and push out the air. Most brew buckets are around 7g too.

I do 11g batches in Sankes, so I've got a 4.5g headspace with my fermenters and never had an issue with oxidation.

If you were going to secondary in that, I might flush the headspace with CO2 and flush the whole thing before you transfer into it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback... I thought it would be ok, just wanted to be sure.
 
Psylocide said:
Caution, on-topic post incoming.

I do primary only... if I put a 5 gal batch in a 7 gal glass carboy, is that to much headspace?
Click to expand...

You will be okay using the 7 gallon glass carboy for a typical fermentation period of three to five weeks. Might not even need a blow off tube assembly with aggressive fermenters like WY3068.
 
Do you guys that brew all-grain do the iodine test to see if conversion has been made? I'm about a week or so out from making the jump and am just curious if this is something that should be habit, or if you only do it until you get a feel for it or what.
 
Yeah sorry. It was a preemptive question. Looked it up and rehydrated per danstar instructions. I've always just pitched dry so was worried. Thanks guys.
 
MaxStout said:
Most brewing and wine dry yeast instructions just say to rehydrate in warm water. But bread yeast mfrs. often recommend that the yeast be "proofed" by rehydrating in some sugar water.
Click to expand...

Really? I've never heard that before. Does that take longer than the normal rehydration period (kind of a transitional point between just rehydrating and actually making a yeast starter)?
 
drainbamage said:
Really? I've never heard that before. Does that take longer than the normal rehydration period (kind of a transitional point between just rehydrating and actually making a yeast starter)?
Click to expand...

I saw it on the back of some Red Star yeast I was using when making pretzels a few months ago. It recommended adding a small amount (maybe a tsp.?) of sugar to the water. So not like a starter, per se, but just a little "wake up" food for the yeasties.
 

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