Just wondering if anyone has used these, or red rice yeast for that matter, to make anything besides sake or rice wine? I have a big bag of yeast balls and a couple sacks of red rice yeast(the prices were so good i couldn't help myself...) and I'm certainly not gonna make THAT much rice wine. Thinking of trying em in a beer, mead or cider so if anybody has any experience with these id love to hear about it.
Asian yeast balls
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I didn't know yeast had balls! bwahahahhaa!!!
I'd try a mead and a beer. I have no experience in this though.
I'd try a mead and a beer. I have no experience in this though.
Hahaha 
thanks for the feedback anyway, I've got quite a few batches going now and a couple more on deck when i free up some room in the fermenters so it will probably be a bit before i start messing with this. But ill definitely post back when i do, then again i guess a 1 gallon test batch or 2 would be pretty easy to whip up...
thanks for the feedback anyway, I've got quite a few batches going now and a couple more on deck when i free up some room in the fermenters so it will probably be a bit before i start messing with this. But ill definitely post back when i do, then again i guess a 1 gallon test batch or 2 would be pretty easy to whip up...worlddivides
Well-Known Member
Sake (and shochu) are traditionally made from mold and not yeast (specifically the "koji" strain):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae
I've never heard of "yeast balls" before so I'm not sure what those are...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergillus_oryzae
I've never heard of "yeast balls" before so I'm not sure what those are...
Sorry i know about koji didn't realize sake was made strictly from it. I don't know where the yeast balls are traditionally used, though there is a thread on here called"traditional chinese rice wine" that uses them.They do have some kind of mold(could be koji for all i know)in them as they act the same as koji, not only fermenting the available sugars, but also taking care of saccrification. But im looking to make other products with them, not rice wine anyway. Just wanted to know if anyone used them with anything other than rice.
worlddivides
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Traditionally koji is the only thing that was used in fermentation traditionally in Japan with the single exception of Natto, which is fermented with bacillus subtilis bacteria, which naturally was found in the rice straw it was wrapped in. Natto is still fermented with bacillus subtilis, just as starter cultures now instead of by wrapping them in straw. Sake in Japan is only made with koji. Ironically there was a Japanese scientist near the turn of the century who thought koji was the ultimate fermentation organism and wanted to get all of the brewers in North America to use koji mold instead of yeast to brew beer. Of course, the brewers rejected him when he approached them with the idea.
I imagine you might find some people outside of Japan making something that they call "sake" out of yeast or bacteria, but in Japan it is solely made from koji.
Part of the reason is that Japan didn't even know about the existence of yeast until after the 1860s because the entire country had been closed off from the outside world. That may have something to do with the fact that the only fermentations in Japan done with yeast are originally Western things such as beer and bread.
I can't comment on China, but I do know that all traditional Chinese fermentation was done with mold and not yeast, but I'm not sure when yeasts started to be used in China. You'll find that the majority of East Asian fermentation is based off of molds and most commonly koji (which in some countries, such as Japan, was the only mold used pretty much).
This explanation is getting long, BUT... Theoretically you could use molds such as koji to brew beer, make wine, mead, and so on. The flavor is very likely to change and I've never heard of anyone using koji in beer before. But as I mentioned above, there was a scientist who tried to convince the US beer companies to use koji mold instead of yeast for their beers. So it might be worth trying out.
EDIT:
This is the scientist, although wikipedia doesn't mention the anecdote I gave:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokichi_Takamine
Thanks a bunch for all the info worlddivides, i always appreciate being taught about things which i am underlearned. And the history you mentioned is included. I've now asked about this on multiple brewing forums and as no one has been able to say that they have personally tried using this mold/yeast combo, i guess its gonna be up to me to experiment. No problem as the bag of yeast balls i bought should be enough for at least 60 gals or so without making starters and the red rice yeast is probably good for at least 20 gals or so per bag (and i have 2 of em). It will just come down to a matter of fermenter space and time for these trials here
Thanks a bunch for all the info worlddivides, i always appreciate being taught about things which i am underlearned. And the history you mentioned is included. I've now asked about this on multiple brewing forums and as no one has been able to say that they have personally tried using this mold/yeast combo, i guess its gonna be up to me to experiment. No problem as the bag of yeast balls i bought should be enough for at least 60 gals or so without making starters and the red rice yeast is probably good for at least 20 gals or so per bag (and i have 2 of em). It will just come down to a matter of fermenter space and time for these trials here
Sorry i dunno how i ended up posting that twice. I guess just call me Johnny 2 Times,"I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers."(i don't really remember the guys name from Goodfellas, it probably isn't Johnny 2 Times, but i figured y'all would get the point, I'm an idiot )
)worlddivides
Well-Known Member
Let us know how it turns out! I'm sure there are quite a few people other than me (and you) interested to see how this little experiment will taste.
Thanks, will do. I may actually start a small batch of cider today with em since i have the supplies and it will be quick and easy. I have an EZ cider recipe that works well for me so i will likely make that and just swap the ale yeast for a couple yeast balls, that way i can do a side by side taste re
Well a few updates on this experiment, i made a starter about 18hrs ago using a yeast ball, using the same method as all of my starters, and there is still zero activity. And i know this is perfectly active yeast as i used it on 2 batches of rice wine not long ago. I guess i will give the red rice yeast a go before i give up on this for the time being. Also it is koji in the yeast balls that give them their enzymatic activity. They are grown in a rice culture initially. I'm really not understanding why the starter didn't work out though
Not sure about in the past, but these days Sake is made with koji AND yeast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sake
brewolero
Member
Just wanted to resurrect this thread and ask how your experiments with the yeast balls turned out. (Offhand, cider might not be the best thing to start with since the yeast balls/mold start out with sacchirifcation of starches before moving onto alcoholic fermentations. Ciders start with fermentable sugars to begin with.)
I'm in Guangdong province of China right now and beginning to be a little curious about the potential of microbes used in pu'er teas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-erh_tea#Fermentation) for secondary fermentations of beer.
I kinda gave up after 2 separate starters with different yeast balls failed to start within 48 hrs. I know the yeast balls have koji which takes care of sacchirifcation, but I figured since the cider already was fermentable sugars that the sacchirifcation would just be skipped over... I just like experimenting and I'd never heard of anyone using these for cider, although I'm pretty sure I've heard of em being used for beer somewhere. If you try something similar let me know, I certainly would be interested in your trials and how they work out. Cheers!
ancientbrewer
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I have added yeast balls to farro cooked same way as rice and am waiting for the airlock to bubble. It's been a few day but since my rice wine takes about a week to get bubbling I'm not too anxious.
I might buy some two row and cereal mash the. Add yeast ball
I might buy some two row and cereal mash the. Add yeast ball
ancientbrewer
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I wonder if I should just toast some I un malted barley the cereal mash that? Because although no bubbles yet on the farro I opened the lid and a lot of liquid is present with that sweet smell rice wine gets in the beginning but is more earthy. Didn't have it open for very long nervous about infections. Will continue to update.
MaryB
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I can suggest an anti-fungal cream... sorry, couldn't resist!
sorry, couldn't resist!ancientbrewer
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Not sure if it will help !! so I bought some 6 row pale malt uncracked and will cereal mash it then throw on 4 yeast balls and let you know what happens
kickinit233
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Well besides sake and rice wine you can use the balls one many starchy vegetables to produce alcohol, one of my favorite things to make with them is tongba.
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