Another 1 bbl brewer

[kajon]

It seems everyone is concerned about where the outlet is on your tanks. If pulling liquid from the side a little above bottom is ideal, then why not put a short length of SS pipe in your drain to raise the spot where you are pulling the water. Seems like a good compromise. I would not do anymore welding on them, they are beauties.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Updates:

HLT installed, bolted into the concrete floor.

Tippy dump for Mash Tun installed

Testing the strength of the tippy dump

 

[MikeRLynch]

Seems to work fine

What goes up must come down

 

[MikeRLynch]

I have no idea why, but someone climbed into the furnace...

Next project is installing the sinks and drain system

 

[Desert_Sky]

Looking really good!

What about fermentation? Temp controlling and vessels? Have you figured out that issue yet?

 

[MikeRLynch]

Looking really good!

What about fermentation? Temp controlling and vessels? Have you figured out that issue yet?

Yup, we're going to frame out a room on the other side of the shop and run an air-conditioner/heater controlled by johnson controllers. The tanks themselves are going to be the plastic conicals from the bio-diesel suppliers. We still have two of the smaller SS tanks leftover, and I've been looking at those to see if they are viable fermentors. I'm also looking at simple 55 gal plastic drums, to at least initially keep costs down.

 

[Desert_Sky]

Awesome. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[rking]

Im watching this one! Awesome build!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Here's the flow chart of how the plumbing is going to go (at least for now)

Has anyone used a grant before? Our local brewpub uses it on his 7 bbl system. Essentially, the wort is drained from the mash tun via gravity into the grant (just another small tank) and is pumped out into the boil kettle from there. This way, there is no suction on the grain bed of the mash tun, and therefore no compacted grain bed. With our drains being located on the bottom of the tanks, I thought this was an attractive solution. Thoughts?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I am getting a 32 gallon "brute" food grade trash can. Not even the same ball park, but I could probably get close to the 31 gallon mark.


It is a huge jump for me.

I will be mashing specialty grains in my mash tun and boiling DME and 5 gallons, topping up to 28 gallons or so.

I will probably only do this for my haus session beer once every 6 months or so, but it makes lots of sense to me!

6 times the beer in the same amount of time.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Shoot

Alright, looking at that diagram I realized that in order to fly sparge from the HLT and pump the wort into the BK, I'm going to need two pumps. Revised below. (damn, thought I could get away with only one)

 

[bendavanza]

For fly sparge and single tier, I think you will need a pair of pumps. If the HLT was mounted above, you could omit the pump. The grant is probably a good idea but I don't know if it would have any effect since you fly sparge at such slow rates, throttling down the flow of the pumps. I wonder how many hours it would take to fly sparge a MLT that big?

 

[Cape Brewing]

It's 100% just my own personal opinion but I just dont' see the need for a grant. I seriously considered one for my system but instead just plumbed in two simple ball valves (one for the re-circ back into the MT and one into the BK).

I have a 45 gallon herms system and when I am pumping wort to either re-circ through the mash or into the BK from the MT, I simply just throttle down those ball valves slightly and let 'er rip. In a ton of batches I've had one stuck mash and that's because I used a pre-ground sack of grain that I think got handled a bit too harsh and it turned into oatmeal in the mash.

 

[MikeRLynch]

I have a 45 gallon herms system and when I am pumping wort to either re-circ through the mash or into the BK from the MT, I simply just throttle down those ball valves slightly and let 'er rip. In a ton of batches I've had one stuck mash and that's because I used a pre-ground sack of grain that I think got handled a bit too harsh and it turned into oatmeal in the mash.

Where are your valves located on your pots? Ours does have a big valve, but its located on the bottom of the tank. I'm reasonably scared of a 40 gallon stuck sparge

 

[Cape Brewing]

The "V's" are solenoid valves. The "P's" are pumps and the "BV's" are ball valves


At the bottom of my MT I have a full false bottom and then under that I have a good-sized copper manifold. The FB sits... i dunno... two inches off the bottom of the pot and the manifold sits on the bottom. The outlet for the manifold is an inch or so above the FB.

When I drain off my MT and pump it into my BK, I pump a solid 20+ gallons at a shot out of that pot in about ten minutes without compacting the bed and getting a stuck mash. I'll then sparge from my HLT, re-circ that for a couple of minutes until it runs clear (five minutes) and then same thing... close the solenoid for the re-circ and open the solenoid to pump into the BK.... and the grain bed will completely drain in about ten minutes (if that).

That is with the ball valves about half open... maybe slightly less. And I've had one stuck mash out of a bunch.

 

[MikeRLynch]

That is an excellent diagram Cape, we'll be studying that more. Thanks for quieting my fears about the flow rate, working this big has me being a little extra cautious

 

[Cape Brewing]

More to think about in regards to my set up... my MT is a 30 gallon pot and then my HLT and BK are both 45's... (so... ok, I have a "42" gallon herms system as you wouldn't fill it RIGHT to the top for a boil).

... but... my MT is something like 26 inches across by 26 inches high, and I have a full sized false bottom so I'm getting fantastic, uniform drainage through my grain bed which allows me to crank though it.

I'm way too lazy to go back and read the previous nine pages but if you've a got a very narrow and very tall MT and then am only using a 9 inch false bottom or a couple of bazooka tubes... you might have a real problem.

 

[MikeRLynch]

My mash tun is taller and narrow, but it's still about 26 inches in diameter. I'll be talking to Jaybird about getting a full falsebottom made. The bottom of the tanks are a little unique though, they angle downwards towards the ball valve by a few degrees.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Someone else might disagree with me but if youre going to go with a full false bottom... i just don't see you having any real issues and I think a grant is overkill. As long as you're not pumping out at full-flow on a wheat mash... I think you'll be able to drain that bed a lot quicker than you're thinking without having a stuck mash problem.

 

[ImaBrewinfool]

Just thought I would chime in here, I am also in the process of creating a 55 gal system.
One big difference in what I am doing from what I have seen here is my mashtun. My stainless 55 gal drum is laid sideways vs upright as most I have seen are doing. Sideways made a few design elements easier, and the mashbed is not as thick as an upright drum.

I have a pump mounted directly to the manifold/ss perf false bottom which will recirculate through the mashtun or pass to the boilkettle. This allows a controlled sparge rate. I am considering a rims addition using a commercial dishwasher inline hot water heater rated at 9 kw, being 3kw per element at 220, running at 120 to reduce power, and separate power switching for each of the 3 elements.

As I have read here, everyone loves beerporn, and as I get a bit further along I will post some.

The most difficult part for me has been the boilkettle. I do not want open air burners, they will be enclosed and vented/ducted using the standard impinged jet burners, I have a 200k btu and 300k btu. I found one need for the burner I was not aware of. When using them enclosed, you will need a baffle panel under the burner to pass the circulating air through the burner diameter as to make sure the air passes through the jets for best efficiency. Air bypassing the burner is not desired. I have not seen any systems (as of yet ) that use this feature. I am completing the burner and will be able to test and prove this concept soon. I am trying to reduce CO output for the sake of efficiency and cleanliness, as well as safety.

Thanks to you all for your great ideas here, I just had to make a few comments that I hadnt seen mentioned yet, and as always, time and brewing will prove me right or wrong, well not completely wrong, but less than optimal.

ImaBrewinfool

 

[hlumbard]

Any updates? Any updates? Any updates? Any updates?

 

[JayInJersey]

I love all these big (i brew 5 so this is huge to me) setups...but I have to ask

Do you (or anyone with the bigger ones) really tip over those MLTs after they are done? I imagine all the commercial ones have a trapdoor on the bottom to dump the grain.

But MAN...that's gotta be heavy.

 

[ClaudiusB]

Do you (or anyone with the bigger ones) really tip over those MLTs after they are done?

My solution

I let the mixer do the work

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[MikeRLynch]

The commercial ones have manways on the side of them, in order to rake out the grains. There hasn't been much going on construction-wise, we're focusing on testing our recipes using the well water we have, without altering it. We're hoping that we won't have to change it too much. Also, a co-founder has been slowly "aquiring" triclover and camlock parts for us. I'll post some pics on that soon.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Ok, time for some ball valve porn...

We have multiples of each, but here are examples of the 3", 2", and 3/4" ball valves

These things are effin HUGE. We may end up selling a lot of them to raise capital for other brewery needs

 

[android]

jeebus that thing is huge!

 

[MikeRLynch]

It doesn't end there, oh no.

Stoplight and a bullhorn because, you know, why not?

A room full of triclover/camlock parts

Ball valves make great beer coozies!

 

[MikeRLynch]

Concentric reducers with butterfly valves. Some of these parts will be used for the BBQ pit we're building, like the piece below

We've got a lot of cleaning in our future

1 hp 1750 rpm motor, thinking of using it for the grain mill

Brand new pump, looks to be run with compressed air

The fluid goes in the top, splits down both sides to the pumpheads, then flows back together. Going to have to research this more to see if its appropriate for our uses. Anyone familiar with this kind of pump?

 

[MikeRLynch]

Solid steel oar, weighs a ton. Oh and a cat.

Huge butterfly valves

Another pump, I think this one reverses the flow of liquid. More research required

So that's it for now, we're going to look up some specs and try to get a handle on what we're going to need and what we can sell. Also, look for the BBQ build thread coming soon where we use some of these huge ball valves as airflow regulators on a 55 gallon drum smoker

 

[bendavanza]

http://wildenpump.com/

 

[MikeRLynch]

http://wildenpump.com/

Good looks on that, looks like that pump is an older model. Still, it is a sanitary pump, so it may work for us. Hopefully we can dial it back with valves, I think I read somewhere it can do 25 gallons a minute

 

[MultumInParvo]

Wow. That is a crap ton of cool stuff. The 3" valve is sweet! I would love to see that on my 8 gallon pot. I could probably get the wort out of there in oh... 4 seconds?

Very neat stuff. I can't wait to see it all together.

 

[kladue]

Use a pressure regulator in the air supply to the wilden pump for speed and pressure control, that seems to be the most wide spread and popular method I have seen in use. Traditional hookup is liquid in bottom and out the top due to the gravity operated ball checks in the pump. The other device that was called a pump in the pictures is a 3 way air actuated ball valve with position indicator on the top.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Seems to work fine

What goes up must come down

Too much babe in the BK. I would halve that addition or your beer will be too sweet.
.
.
.

 

[MikeRLynch]

Use a pressure regulator in the air supply to the wilden pump for speed and pressure control, that seems to be the most wide spread and popular method I have seen in use. Traditional hookup is liquid in bottom and out the top due to the gravity operated ball checks in the pump. The other device that was called a pump in the pictures is a 3 way air actuated ball valve with position indicator on the top.

So THAT'S what that is! Honestly, my friend and partner just grabbed whatever was around, and didn't look too close to see what it was. Thanks for the info! Also, do you have much experience with the wilden pump? What psi does it normally run at? If this stuff is in the spec sheet, just tell me to shut up and read

 

[oldschool]

nice thread. those pneumatic diaphragm pumps are really loud and pump in surges. Still may be what you are looking for though

 

[klyph]

So THAT'S what that is! Honestly, my friend and partner just grabbed whatever was around, and didn't look too close to see what it was.

Ah, the old smash and grab. For not even casing the joint, your "partner" does good work

 

[kladue]

Depending on the back presure you should start out with regulator backed off all the way and turn it up to level you are comfortable with. These pumps can move a lot of liquid quickly so for recirculation it is not the best choice. Pumping 50 gallons of wort to the fermenter in less than 5 minutes is more inline with what it can do. If you valved the output line and lowered the air pressure it could be used for wort transfer from MLT to Boil kettle, be prepared for pulsating flow though. A thing to consider is the diaphragms will wear out and leak from usage so be prepared for the cost of replacing the moving parts when it begins to leak. Most of the time we work with the PVDF plastic versions because the chemistry of the process involved is not kind to SS pumps or piping.

 

[RegionalChaos]

Just wanted to sub to this. I'm loving the build out there. I've been day dreaming about 1 bbl + a lot lately and these pics make my day

 

[PatMac]

This looks like a lot of fun. Good luck!