Am I a bad person?

[Challey]

This is a bit of long rant but I wanted to get it off my chest.

In anticipation of a decent-sized tax refund, I’ve been planning to change out some of my brewing equipment and add some new components.
The biggest item on the list are burners. I’ve been using two propane units that are both long in the tooth. One was purchased 15 years ago from Sabco, the other is a more recent but much more cheaply made turkey fryer from my local hardware store. Both suck down gas with abandon, so I was going to get two Blichmann’s to both replace and upgrade things. There are also a couple of other higher cost items on the list, such as an additional Corny keg and some other CO2 gear, as well as a bunch of less costly items. All told, I was planning to spend about $500 and headed to my LHBS last night with the cash to purchase the equipment. I returned from the shop with no new gear and a feeling that I’m being taken for granted.

The LHBS sells the Blichmann for $169. Since I was buying two, as well as a bunch of other stuff, I asked if they could give me a little bit of a break. My suggestion was to make the burners $155 each. I pointed out that this amounted to about a pretty small discount on the total bill. They refused. The stated reason was that Blichmann forces them to sell for a certain price and so they can’t discount them. I suggested they simply apply it to the other 200 bucks worth of stuff I was buying. The answer was “can’t do it dude.”

I always try to support local shops rather than using web stores. In fact, at the LHBS, I always try to pay in cash rather than by card, to help them out a little. But this episode makes me feel that I’m not very valued and in fact am being taken for granted, especially since this the first and only time I've asked for a discount.

This has left such a bad taste in my mouth, that for the first time, I'm thinking of buying over the web. The burners even with shipping will still be less (state and city sales tax adds 7%). Ditto on the Corney and CO2 gear. In the past, I would have sucked it up, reasoning that it was worth it to help out the LHBS. It appears that the feeling isn't mutual though.

Do I take another run at things, suck up the extra cost or be a bad person and just buy over the web?

 

[unionrdr]

Nope. Ya gotta go where the best savings are for quality stuff. Or something the lhbs doesn't carry. At least on some web sites,you can get discounts one way or another.

 

[sparkshooter]

It's your money to spend, which you obviously know.

I think it was a little presumptuous to ask for a discount on the burners (I can't imagine doing such a thing...), but that said, it was your prerogative, just like it was their prerogative to say HELL NO.

Buy online if you want, but don't do it to spike the LHBS. And always keep in mind, if enough people buy enough stuff online, your LHBS will go out of business and you won't be able to pick up $5 worth of specialty grain on your way home or grab some emergency yeast.

 

[jgarretson]

Are you a regular customer there?

I'd go with this approach. "Hey LBHS guy, I can buy X product online for this cost and Y product online for this cost which is a few bucks cheaper than your price but I'd rather keep my business with you. Any chance you can match that for me?" If it's a good business owner, they'll do what they can by offering a discount or throwing in something else. From what you said, they have no reason to just give you a discount.

If they still don't do anything for you after you've told them you'll be buying elsewhere, their loss and go save the money online.

An no you're not a bad person in my opinion.


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[Teromous]

You're not necessarily a bad person for wanting to buy stuff online if it's cheaper. However, I have yet to find any place that gives a discount on Blichmann products. If you find one, seriously let me know. I'm not sure why you expected a discount from the store though. I spend hundreds of dollars at the grocery store and they don't give me a discount unless I give them coupons. The same goes for the hardware store. I buy a lot of power tools and stuff from them, but they never seem to be in a haggling mood.

 

[geoffm33]

They may be trying to abide by a MAP agreement (minimum advertised price) with Blichmann where they cannot advertise lower than the set price. It evens the playing field for sellers. If true, they are technically allowed to sell below MAP, just not advertise below it.

They could also give you a gift card/certificate for the 5% value you requested.

They could also tell you to pound sand, which they chose.

Maybe it wasn't the best approach. What I did with my LHBS when I was shopping for kegging equipment was I gave them a link to the setup I wanted and they matched it. If they couldn't match it there would have been no hard feelings and I would have bought online.

The best part about buying at your LHBS is there is someplace and someone you can go see if it doesn't work right. All our great HBT sponsors have great customer service (those that I have frequented anyway) but sometimes in-person is best and you get that with an LHBS.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Yes, it is true that Blichmann is adamant about retailers not jacking up the prices of their products. A Blichmann floor-standing burner retails for $149.99 and that is that.

Wait a minute. Your LHBS is selling them for $169? It seems like they're violating Blichmann's policy so they could get in trouble for that.

I understand that running a LHBS is tough and it's a niche market and all, but I wouldn't feel bad about ordering online.

 

[Temptd2]

We try really hard to support our local HBS but some days, money IS an object, and we go with the better online pricing. We also try to pay in cash at the LHBS so he doesn't incur the 2.5% or whatever amount he has to pay for credit card use.

No, you're not a bad person. You asked for a discount, they didn't see fit to honor your request, buy your equipment where you want, and you can still get your grains/hops/yeast/whatever you choose at the LHBS. SO far, it's still a free country and you can choose to spend what you want where you want, God bless free enterprise!

 

[fuzzy2133]

Something I learned from our Operations manager is to ask (suggest) if they are running any specials today. If they do not follow along be specific (suggest) bulk buying or spending over a $$$ amount. Still cant have any hard feeling if they tell you no.

 

[smizak]

It's your money to spend, which you obviously know.

I think it was a little presumptuous to ask for a discount on the burners (I can't imagine doing such a thing...), but that said, it was your prerogative, just like it was their prerogative to say HELL NO.

Buy online if you want, but don't do it to spike the LHBS. And always keep in mind, if enough people buy enough stuff online, your LHBS will go out of business and you won't be able to pick up $5 worth of specialty grain on your way home or grab some emergency yeast.

+1,000

I will gladly pay the slight markup on stuff because my LHBS is 10 minutes away and can bail me out. They already have in the past. Dumped my grain out of my barley crusher halfway through milling. They gave me a 50% discount as a "consolation" when I went storming in there all PO'd about it. That made my day, and the beer actually ending up winning 3rd in a NYS Homebrew Invitational. Again, I'm happy to pay the little extra to support that kind of service.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

Yeah, I wouldn't have started out with a blank "can I get a discount" but I wouldn't have felt bad saying "I can get all of this online from ABC for $XYZ, any chance you can match it or come close?"
I know that they don't make money hand over fist, but as long as they cover their costs and keep you coming back it should have been reasonable. I assume the guys at least know your name if you felt familiar enough to ask for a deal.
Don't feel bad for going online. The reason to shop local is for the customer service, so if the customer service wasn't what you'd hoped for you can't be chided for shopping elsewhere.

 

[BradleyBrew]

Buy from the vendor with the cheapest price for the item you want. Who cares about the wallet of any business owner... I'm only concerned about mine.

 

[TyTanium]

It's always discouraging when you go into a small shop and leave with a bad experience. The only reason these guys stay in business is because people value convenience and good customer service. Lousy service = no customers. I'm never one to expect a discount, but usually there's at least something they can do, even if it's only a free sample or something.

 

[Big_Belgian]

I think most shops these days, and particularly homebrew stores, know full well that they've got to compete with online prices. I love having a good LHBS nearby so I can get quality, fresh ingredients and ask questions, but if I'm buying something like a boil kettle, burner or other equipment I will always go with the best price (assuming a material difference, not just a few bucks), and have no qualms whatsoever about that. The only comment I'd have for you is that it seems strange to me that you feel "not very valued" and this experience has left a "bad taste" in your mouth. You asked for a discount and the person you were dealing with couldn't give it to you. I think its very common that people working in retail stores have no power or ability to give ad hoc discounts on their merchandise. Your reaction strikes me as a bit thin-skinned. Forget it and move on, its not personal to you or them.

 

[roastquake]

You're good man. I hardly ever buy from my LHBS. Aside from it being an hours drive away (so, not really all that local) it's the most expensive HBS I've EVER seen. I'm talking $2.95 for ALL malts, base, crystal, you name it. On top of that, they don't even carry more advanced equipment like mash tuns, kegging setups, or any Blichmann products. Now if I happen to be passing through Columbia, I might pick up some yeast or hops that are going to be expensive anyway, and save on shipping. But my point is: this is capitalism, if your LHBS is crappy, take your money elsewhere.

FWIW the shop I speak of has been in business since 1968, so there's obviously enough brewers and winemakers in Columbia (willing to pay out the a$$) keeping this place in business, so I don't feel bad

 

[Hello]

The feeling you that you believe you were taken for granted is invalid in my opinion. You are being asked to pay the price of the equipment you wanted to purchase. This wasn't some back alley sale where they were trying to hose you.

I have spent upwards of at least a grand in under a year at my LHBS and more online because that is where I got my kegging setup and all kettles. The LHBS is very competitive, even with online prices, with few exceptions. Their kettles are definitely priced to a point where my desire to support them goes far out the window when faced with a $100 discount by buying online.

The amount of money I have spent in the store is likely less than some, more than others, but I never feel as though I deserve a discount. Each month a recipe is published and if you buy one the day where they are offering to let home brewers brew in their brewery, the recipe is 50% off. I was told at some point I could buy the recipe all month. This was not untrue but I was under the impression I could buy the recipe for 50% off month. Much to my surprise, it was twice the price. I could have walked away and told them to hold it a week and a half, I did not. I crushed the grain and though won't brew until next week at the latest, I still bought everything at full price. I was a little miffed, but I was over it shortly.

I am not sure why you believe you were entitled to a discount. I understand why you believe that coming in with $500 to spend and asking if they could wiggle on prices would be a good idea, but feeling "taken for granted" because you didn't get what you wanted seems immature. If they are selling those burners for $20 over MSRP then they are in the wrong anyway and you should not buy from them.

All this being said, you have to go where you want to go. I believe that getting all ingredients, even if there is a nice sale online, from my LHBS is key to helping them stay in business. I buy small things like bottles, oxygenator, spoons, etc from them as well. Anything needed for kegging outside the setup prepared for me by an online vendor will also be bought from them. Of course, as long as they're in business, I am getting my CO2 there as well.

They also get on average $20 a week from me in their tap room. That is a low ball estimate as well.

Next time you want a discount come prepared. Bring info from a vendor who is well-known online and see if they'll price match. If they do not, you know you must shop online for equipment upgrades, simple as that.

Are you a bad person? Doubtful. Nothing you wrote makes you a bad person, that is a pretty dramatic leap and if you're bad for not spending your money at the LHBS 100% of the time then I'm downright evil.

 

[NTXBrauer]

I am all about supporting the LHBS, but will shop a price on anything. And, there is nothing wrong with asking for a discount in this situation. It is your money that you would be saving, not anyone's here on HBT.

If they are selling the burners you want for $169 you will be spending $40 more than purchasing at the msrp online. The LHBS already purchased the burners at cost and has a margin built in at the msrp. If they can't match it, I would buy them elsewhere. You will save close to 10% on the burners, and have an extra $40 to buy the ingredients for your next batch. Cheers!

 

[Puddlethumper]

Like most everyone else here I try to support my lhbs and go there for most of the stuff I need to keep beer on tap. I am totally aware of their prices vs. the prices available mail-order. I fully expect to have to pay them a little more. Their inventory and overhead costs as a percentage of revenue are substantially higher than the high-volume mail order stores so they just can't sell a lot of stuff as cheaply. Sam Walton was extremely successful for the very same reasons. But I still pay that premium for the same reasons others have given.

But on some items (especially equipment) the price difference is excessive. And when I encounter that I have no problem buying on line. I might ask the local guy if he can come off his price for the item, but then I give him credit for already knowing what it's selling for on line. (I'm in business myself and am totally aware of what my competitors are charging.)

But as far as hurt feelings are concerned I'd suggest you swallow that and chase it with a little more toughness. We're talking business here, not whether he wants to go on a date. Its not personal.

Cheers!

 

[NickTheGreat]

You're not a bad person. Doesn't sound like your LHBS was either, though. Some things they can't budge on.

What was the total overall cost savings? My LHBS costs a hair more on things, but not enough to worry me.

 

[widsith]

Really? People here think it was presumptuous to ask for a discount? No. Just no.

Presumptuous is the guy I work with who will negotiate with the waiter on how many shrimp come with his dish.

But you know what? Most of the time he gets more shrimp than you.

Im not saying you should negotiate every 5lb grain purchase. But you were walking in, expecting to make a larger than typical purchase. $500 is a good size order for a LHBS. I think you were entirely within reason for asking for a discount. As mentioned, they didnt have to give you one, and certainly didnt have to give you what you asked for, but if they value your business, they should work with you. While you dont explicitly say it, my sense from your post is that they just flat refused, gave you a cold shoulder as it were. If thats the case, yeah, thats a sign they dont value your business. And you dont owe them your business either. If you get better service, and thats of value to you, then yeah, keep giving them your business. If you dont get better service and they dont care about keeping your business, then I dont see why you should care about giving them your business.

 

[Wingnutt73]

I have a great problem my LHBS is also an online vendor so I get the online price with the face to face interaction. But as far as being bent outta shape and never going back Ask yourself this, when you order online and forget that one thing that one ingredient and its a 10-30min drive even an hour to the LHBS to get it. Will you go back or put off brewing for another week until it ships from online?

The pros and cons here are big and each vendor has their place. I started my whole home brewing adventure @ another LHBS and paid a little more for it, now I get my equipment online and my ingredients @ the LHBS its win win for everyone.

Don't be upset they can not compete they also have rent and lights to pay for, for that Brick and Mortar shop not to mention employees if they are big enough.

And no you are not a bad person.

 

[kcmobrewer]

I really try to support my local HBS but the worst part for me is them not having the newest things, such as hop extract, or some of the newer varieties of hops such as Apollo. Plus I think their grain mill is ripping me off, considering no matter what changes I make I am still stuck at 70-71% efficiency.

All those things combined made me shop online more. However, I do still give them business because I like having them around for emergency stuff. Plus all the people I interact with are really nice and helpful. Just wish their inventory was a little newer and their grain mill was nicer or had the gap set properly, whatever the issue is.

 

[poptarts]

I buy pretty much everything but food online and that is basically because I can get it cheaper locally. Why should I support the small business that marks up the price of something that amazon can have at my door in 2 days? The only time I see them being better than the big online stores is when I need it that very second and that pretty much never happens.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Really? People here think it was presumptuous to ask for a discount? No. Just no.

You make a good point. It probably all boils down to how the conversation went between them, which we can't really know. If the guy at the lhbs shrugged and said, "You know, man, I'd like to give you the discount, but we have a policy here and I just can't do it", that is one thing. If, on the other hand, the guy gruff and just said, "No, we don't give discounts." you have two completely different conversations. The first I think most people would be cool with, the second wouldn't set well with me either. I wouldn't have hurt feelings, but neither would I second-guess the decision to spend my money somewhere else.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Well, if everyone just supported online stores that anything local would almost cease to exist. If everyone had to buy everything from Amazon then the prices probably wouldn't be as attractive anymore.

 

[glick]

If they are selling the burners you want for $169 you will be spending $40 more than purchasing at the msrp online. The LHBS already purchased the burners at cost and has a margin built in at the msrp. If they can't match it, I would buy them elsewhere. You will save close to 10% on the burners, and have an extra $40 to buy the ingredients for your next batch. Cheers!

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The going rate for a Blichmann burner is $149. I can't imagine why on earth you would consider paying a dime more.

 

[dyqik]

I went into my LHBS looking to buy a burner (not a Blichmann) to move my brewing outdoors. They flat out told me to buy online before they even told me their price because it'd be cheaper than they would sell it for.

They have a pretty small stock of big equipment, but do have all those little annoying things that you'd get eaten alive on shipping for if you needed one in a hurry. I guess they are happy to keep a few of the big ticket items around for emergency sales, and make the profit on those when they can. Since there's always at least 2 people in there making up a 5 gallon batch worth of ingredients, I'm not particularly worried about them going out of business. If you want a dusty conical, they're the people to go and see...

 

[zwiller]

Forget the blichman bling and grab a pair SQ14s. I upgraded from a jet burner and LOVE it! No soot and INSANELY efficient compared to old jet burner. Do pass go and collect $200... :rockin:

 

[elkshadow]

Couple thoughts:

The Blichman thing is universal. My HBS will give a discount for anything in the store but Blichman stuff.

My HBS store charges up to 3.50 an ounce for hops and 1.85 a pound for base grains. Internet hops are ~15 a pound plus shipping and I've seen sacks of base grain for 40 dollars which is 80 cents a pound. Even with 20+ in shipping it's still cheaper.

I realize they have to make a living but I don't feel the least bit bad about cutting my per batch cost in half (or more) by buying in bulk off the internet.

I will continue to buy dry yeast from them because I don't really trust the shipping on it. *shrug

 

[jgm038]

If you can buy it from an online vendor for cheaper, even after including shipping and sometimes tax(sometimes it is included) - do it.

Capitalism for the win.

Paying extra for an item, simply because it happens to be sold in the same locale as you is just silly.

Of course there are many things to factor in. My LHBS is 45-60 minutes away, through straight traffic lights. If I am in the area I will stop there, but if not, and If i don't need anything immediately, I will shop online..There is a beer store literally 3 minutes away that sells only LME and yeast at a slightly higher cost...But hey, it's 3 minutes away so I don't mind at all...

 

[passedpawn]

Let's not forget that there are human beings in the online stores, too. Americans. Selling online. It's OK, no animals will be harmed if you buy online.

It's nice to have a local store to go to. I have a GREAT one. I'll be getting over there in a day to two. But I buy online too. No regrets.

 

[brettg20]

You were not wrong for asking for a discount, and they were not wrong for saying no...not a big deal IMO. I buy almost everything but grains online now and don't feel bad at all about it. It's your money spend it where you want to...I am all for supporting local business but I am more for having extra cash in MY pocket not theirs...and I don't think that is selfish at all

 

[rhythmsteve]

I don't think your bad at all, this is a quite natural situation when you feel you spend enough money at a local store. What the owner doesn't realize is that you spent a lot of money and he gets none of it. By being creative with the billing of other items he could have made up the difference, and was a terrible business decision on his part. I completely disagree with the above poster about not getting discounts at grocery and hardware stores. I get discounts all the time because I'm a loyal customer, that's what good business owners do....help you out and realize eventually you'll pay it forward and help them to provide goods, services, and jobs to the local economy.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[StressedPenguin]

Really? People here think it was presumptuous to ask for a discount? No. Just no.

I agree. On every purchase no, but for $500? I have actually been offered purchases at local stores if I pay that much without asking. I definitely go back to those places not for a future discount, but because they demonstrated they appreciate the big purchases like that.

I don't think you are a bad person at all for asking, and like others have said if the conversation was pretty abrupt then maybe they don't need your business anymore. I am all about supporting local businesses, but if I felt like if the respect i gave isn't returned then I won't be back, no matter how good it is.

 

[Zubius]

This is a bit of long rant but I wanted to get it off my chest.

In anticipation of a decent-sized tax refund, I’ve been planning to change out some of my brewing equipment and add some new components.
The biggest item on the list are burners. I’ve been using two propane units that are both long in the tooth. One was purchased 15 years ago from Sabco, the other is a more recent but much more cheaply made turkey fryer from my local hardware store. Both suck down gas with abandon, so I was going to get two Blichmann’s to both replace and upgrade things. There are also a couple of other higher cost items on the list, such as an additional Corny keg and some other CO2 gear, as well as a bunch of less costly items. All told, I was planning to spend about $500 and headed to my LHBS last night with the cash to purchase the equipment. I returned from the shop with no new gear and a feeling that I’m being taken for granted.

The LHBS sells the Blichmann for $169. Since I was buying two, as well as a bunch of other stuff, I asked if they could give me a little bit of a break. My suggestion was to make the burners $155 each. I pointed out that this amounted to about a pretty small discount on the total bill. They refused. The stated reason was that Blichmann forces them to sell for a certain price and so they can’t discount them. I suggested they simply apply it to the other 200 bucks worth of stuff I was buying. The answer was “can’t do it dude.”

I always try to support local shops rather than using web stores. In fact, at the LHBS, I always try to pay in cash rather than by card, to help them out a little. But this episode makes me feel that I’m not very valued and in fact am being taken for granted, especially since this the first and only time I've asked for a discount.

This has left such a bad taste in my mouth, that for the first time, I'm thinking of buying over the web. The burners even with shipping will still be less (state and city sales tax adds 7%). Ditto on the Corney and CO2 gear. In the past, I would have sucked it up, reasoning that it was worth it to help out the LHBS. It appears that the feeling isn't mutual though.

Do I take another run at things, suck up the extra cost or be a bad person and just buy over the web?

Do you ask for a discount at your grocery store?? Or any other store that you frequent??

 

[MaxStout]

Let's not forget that there are human beings in the online stores, too. Americans. Selling online. It's OK, no animals will be harmed if you buy online.

This.

Also, remember that many of those online brew supply stores have brick-and-mortar salesrooms to serve their local communities. Midwest, Northern, Austin, and so forth. In their respective communities, those stores are the LHBS.

Whether you purchase your gear from your hometown store or order it online, you are pumping $$$ into someone's business, a place that employs real people and pays taxes. No matter where you buy from, you shouldn't feel guilty.