All Grain Mash Recirculation?

[Markalanbrown]

I am an all grain brewer - 2 years in - Can I use a pot with a ball valve and a pump to recirculate my wort effectively even with no temperature control on the pump?

 

[RM-MN]

I am an all grain brewer - 2 years in - Can I use a pot with a ball valve and a pump to recirculate my wort effectively even with no temperature control on the pump?

Sure you can.....and watch your mash temperature go down quickly. Those who circulate must use a temperature controller and have heat applied to maintain the temp.

 

[LittleRiver]

Is there some specific issue/problem you're trying to address by adding recirculation?

 

[Markalanbrown]

I have read about higher brew house efficiency and better clarity with recirculation- I guess those would be my goals. I just have a chance to get a bigger 16 gallon pot (currently use an 8 gallon pot w/o false bottom, thermometer, or ball valve) and what to know if I can recirculate with a pump and other potential uses or advantages of the new equipment.

 

[eric19312]

ahh now I see you posted same question second time. I'll answer second time too.

Yes you can recirculate
It may improve your efficiency and/or clarity and many people who do like recirculating systems will mention these reasons

I'm going to disagree a bit with @RM-MN even though he is pretty clearly more experienced and smarter than me. I did recriculate without a controller for about 10 batches and found I could do it. I used a very low flame under my mash tun and kept an eye on the temperature with a cheap digital thermometer. I was the controller. When the mash got too hot I turned off the burner. When it cooled back down I turned it back on. Using a very low natural gas flame I could usually run the burner about 60% of the mash and had to turn it off and on about 5 times.

Still that was 100 batches or so ago and I did replace the "brewer is the controller" with a PID based controller pretty fast.

But your other questions about improving efficiency and clarity. I would not recommend a new brewer jump into recirculation to try to solve either of these issues. There are much easier ways and best to get further down your own personal brewing adventure before getting involved with pumps and controllers.

 

[Markalanbrown]

ahh now I see you posted same question second time. I'll answer second time too.

Yes you can recirculate
It may improve your efficiency and/or clarity and many people who do like recirculating systems will mention these reasons

I'm going to disagree a bit with @RM-MN even though he is pretty clearly more experienced and smarter than me. I did recriculate without a controller for about 10 batches and found I could do it. I used a very low flame under my mash tun and kept an eye on the temperature with a cheap digital thermometer. I was the controller. When the mash got too hot I turned off the burner. When it cooled back down I turned it back on. Using a very low natural gas flame I could usually run the burner about 60% of the mash and had to turn it off and on about 5 times.

Still that was 100 batches or so ago and I did replace the "brewer is the controller" with a PID based controller pretty fast.

But your other questions about improving efficiency and clarity. I would not recommend a new brewer jump into recirculation to try to solve either of these issues. There are much easier ways and best to get further down your own personal brewing adventure before getting involved with pumps and controllers.

Thanks for the info. My clarity has improved a lot since I started kegging and then even more so when I started cold crashing for kegging. My BH efficiency (using a cooler) is varied form 60% to 72%.

 

[eric19312]

I doubt you will improve clarity with recirculation. Water chemistry might be issue. Kettle fining with whirlfloc might help. Gelatin fining when you cold crash also works well.

Brewhouse efficiency is combination of mash and kettle efficiency. Mash efficiency is combination of mash conversion efficiency and lauter efficiency. Some of the best conversion efficiencies I have seen come from the BIAB guys who pulverize their grain. With batch sparging and a cooler though you should be able to get mash efficiency around 85% or so. Then the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is how much wort you leave in the kettle. Key to batch sparging efficiency is usually getting in there and stirring it well once or twice during mash and then again - stirring really well - when you do your sparge(s). Like 5 minutes of stirring is by no means too much.

 

[Markalanbrown]

I doubt you will improve clarity with recirculation. Water chemistry might be issue. Kettle fining with whirlfloc might help. Gelatin fining when you cold crash also works well.

Brewhouse efficiency is combination of mash and kettle efficiency. Mash efficiency is combination of mash conversion efficiency and lauter efficiency. Some of the best conversion efficiencies I have seen come from the BIAB guys who pulverize their grain. With batch sparging and a cooler though you should be able to get mash efficiency around 85% or so. Then the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is how much wort you leave in the kettle. Key to batch sparging efficiency is usually getting in there and stirring it well once or twice during mash and then again - stirring really well - when you do your sparge(s). Like 5 minutes of stirring is by no means too much.

Good info. I feel like I should use my potential new kettle's false bottom and go with a BIAB system. Would that make more since that buying a pump to recirculate the mash runnings?

 

[eric19312]

You can always add a recirc pump later but should not need it at all for BIAB.

 

[LittleRiver]

...higher brew house efficiency and better clarity with recirculation- I guess those would be my goals...

Re-circulation is not a requirement to reach those goals. It can be a part of how you get there, or you can get there other ways.

Re-circulation comes with its own set of problems. Getting the flow rate dialed in, maintaining temperature, dialing in your grain crush to match the flow rate, the need to hang around to monitor it, cleaning/troubleshooting the extra gear, and the expense. For it to make sense, it should give you enough benefits to more than offset all those.

I made a conscious decision to not re-circulate, and I have yet to regret it.

I just have a chance to get a bigger 16 gallon pot (currently use an 8 gallon pot w/o false bottom, thermometer, or ball valve) and what to know if I can recirculate with a pump and other potential uses or advantages of the new equipment.

Definitely jump on the big kettle if you have a chance to get it at a good deal. I use a 15gal kettle and love it. It's big enough to have some flexibility in grain bill & batch size, and big enough to almost completely eliminate the possibility of a boil over for 5gal batches. If the new kettle has a drain valve, so much the better, it's a very handy feature.

...My clarity has improved a lot since I started kegging and then even more so when I started cold crashing for kegging. My BH efficiency (using a cooler) is varied form 60% to 72%.

I tried out various fining agents, but no longer use them. I found that a cold crash for several days at the end of fermentation is all it takes to get good clarity. Some time in the keg makes it even better.

Your efficiency is not high, but it's not terrible. You could tighten up your mill gap by a small amount and probably see some gains. Of course you don't want to go so small that you end up with stuck sparges in your cooler.

I use a very simple single vessel BIAB rig, crushing my grain at .025". Without sparging at all I'm consistently over 80% BH efficiency on "normal" ABV beers. The efficiency is primarily due to the fine grain crush, which doesn't cause any problems in BIAB.

I only sparge when brewing a big beer, because efficiency will drop a bit with a larger grain bill.