advice on my second batch

[Jon112]

I am thinking of doing a fall/winter batch of beer, and would like advice.

I am thinking of getting a coopers beer kit (ale?) and adding the following

Malt extract
1 oz cascade hops boil 10-15 min
1 oz cascade for aroma, 5 min boil
2 Cans of apple juice
1-2 bottles of maple syrup
1-2 cups of brown sugar
Oak chips for flavor
and maybe vanilla flavor

Im looking for something clean and crisp with sort of a fall flavor. Im curious if I should change the hops type and amount, and how much apple juice and maple syrup i should use. Advice?


Jon

 

[hercher]

How much malt extract are you planning to use? Are you shooting for a darker color? I'd probably aim for a bigger beer, say an OG around 1.075 - 1.080.

I personally am not sure about the apple juice -- green apple notes are sometimes perceived as a flaw in beer.

1 bottle of syrup (the real stuff, not imitation) should be plenty.

Yes, I would use different hops. It seems to me you might want a more earthy flavor than the citrusy notes of Cascade. Saaz or Tettnang would do well.

 

[Zamial]

I would make a basic: brown nut, scotch ale or some other VERY basic beer if I were you. We all wanted to get that "Big monster beer" made when we started out and very few of them turned out well. (I still have bottles of mine left...) IMO you have to much going on in your recipe.

Make a few good batches of beer then try to make a great batch by improving your processes and then try some untested recipe of your creation. If you want an apple drink try: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/ it is easy to make and tasty.

 

[scarlessmeanie]

I second the nut brown idea. Nothing says fall like a good nut brown.

 

[DarkBrood]

maple, vanilla, molasses (from the brown sugar), apple, oak, AND citrusy hops? That doesn't seem like the best-tasting combo to me - an especially difficult to balance for a beginner.

Something to remember when starting out is that ingredients used in fermenting do NOT behave the same as when cooking. Keep it much simpler and start with just one or two new ingredients until you get used to what they do. With this recipe, if you don't like it, you won't be able to determine which ingredient is the problem, whether it's an interaction issue, an amount added issue, etc.

I'd agree in dropping the apple juice. (If you REALLY want some apple flavor, you can "dry hop" with some apple slices in brandy/rum, but as mentioned above, apple flavors are often percieved as a flaw.

If you want "clean and crisp" then you definitely need some bittering hops (10-15 minutes of boil isn't going to cut it - you need AT LEAST 45min, preferably at least an hour. Many people recommend going to a 70-75min boil when using extracts). As far as hop selection, if you want a fall-style taste, I agree with @hercher above, look towards European hops. The various hops of the American northwest are wonderfully flavorful, but are best suited to springtime and summery beers - the earthy and woodsy flavors of the European hops are more reminiscent of the smells of autumn (and the hardy root vegetables of winter). I'd recommend Fuggle for a deep earthiness, East Kent Goldings for an all-around mellow earthy/woodsiness, Saaz for a stronger spiciness. Hallertau and Tettnang would both make great bittering hops. If you really want a fruitiness that is more fall-oriented, Strisselspalt can give hints of blackberries or currants (but that might not play well with a strong maple flavor).

Is the Coopers LME that you plan to use pre-hopped?

Be sure to check what your brown sugar really is. Some are true brown sugars (but more expensive and usually labelled "turbinado"), some are white cane sugars with some low-grade molasses added back in (better off using corn sugar/dextrose and a couple Tbsp of good molasses), and some are just white can sugar with artificial coloring and flavoring added (avoid!).

Of course, you could just swap out the apple juice with some pumpkin or butternut squash - most of your ingredients would play pretty well with that, would just need to adjust quantities....

 

[Jon112]

Thanks for the replies guys. I will give more thought on the ingredients, and I think your right it might be too much going on. I think I will take out the brown sugar, it was more just of an idea. I will have to see what type of hops my brew shop has.

Would 1 oz of hops be enough?I know it depends on what I go with, but just curious.

Also should I aroma hop with a different type of hops, or the same one?

Jon

 

[hercher]

If I, as a guy who has been brewing since 1993, may be so bold as to make a suggestion for a beer I think you want to try, for your second brew:

If you want a bigger beer, go ahead and use some extra LME. Use a lighter variety, at least about 8-10 lbs.

Get about 4 oz Munich malt, 4 oz Caramel 60, and maybe 2 oz chocolate malt. Have your homebrew shop mill it for you. Bring your water up to about 154 Fahrenheit and hold it there. Put the malt into a grain bag and steep it for a while -- say at least 15-20 minutes. Then you can pull it out, bring the liquid to a boil and add your malt extract.

When it comes to a boil, add an ounce of Saaz, or Hallertau. Boil for 30 minutes, and add another ounce of the same variety. Boil for another 30-45 minutes, and add another ounce of the same variety.

For some of the complexity you are seeking, add a half bottle (8 fl oz) of real maple syrup late in the boil. At the end of the boil, throw a vanilla bean in and let it steep as you chill your wort. (Remember to throw it in while the wort is still at boiling temperature, to sanitize the vanilla.)

Chill the wort, and add your yeast. Talk to your homebrew shop guy -- you want a yeast that can handle a higher gravity beer.

Ferment as usual. When fermentation is complete -- when your specific gravity has stayed steady for 3 consecutive days, probably after about a week or so -- then rack your beer to a secondary vessel with your sanitized oak chips. (I sanitize them by steaming for a half hour.) If you don't have a secondary fermenter, throw them in the primary at this point. Your oak should stay there for about 2-3 weeks, at least.

Bottle as usual and wait a month.

I promise you, this will be a good beer.

 

[Jon112]

thanks for the reply, I like your suggestion hercher. Only problem is that my brew shop does not sell grains, and for some reason no brew shop around here does, so I am forced to use a beer kit and just add to it.

This one sells all the coopers beer kits, so thats what I have to start with. I like the idea of adding a vanilla bean, i think that would go well with the maple syrup.

I will perhaps try one of the hops suggested as well, should I use maybe 2 different types of hops or do a long boil with one type, and aroma hop with the same type of hops?

I have read with the oak you can just boil water with it in it and then add the water to give it an oak taste, not sure if this is better then adding the chips to the secondary. Advice?

also these are the kits i have to work from, there could be a few more from the shop: http://makebeer.ca/index.php/coopers-home-brew-products/beer-kits/original-series.html

 

[DarkBrood]

Personally, when using oak chips, I soak them overnight in a high-proof (at least 40%/80-proof) alcohol to sterilize (just enough to cover them) and add both the chips and the liquor to the secondary. If I just want oak flavor, I'll use vodka, but I often find the slight bit of extra flavor from spiced rum, bourbon, or rye whiskey goes well in a recipe.

As far as your brew shop not carrying grain, I'd make a point of not buying from them and telling them exactly why. Order from Northern Brewer, MoreBeer, Midwest, etc. and you'll be much happier. (Will probably get better prices, too.) I'm all for supporting your local homebrew shop, but if they don't carry the basics, then they're not doing you a good service.

(Just today, I stopped into a store advertising homebrewing supplies - they had a few kits, a couple of small accessories, and that's it. When I asked if they had any hops, the woman running the place said "What? What are hops?" I won't be stopping there again!)

 

[Jon112]

could you not boil them for a while then add the water and chips to secondary?

I live in Canada, and every brew shop I know of does not sell grains, which is stupid because we pretty much grow it all haha. The only way I think I can get it would be to order it onlinne, which could be expensive. Its a little to advanced for me at the moment, but perhaps that is the only option i have in the future.

 

[hercher]

could you not boil them for a while then add the water and chips to secondary?

I live in Canada, and every brew shop I know of does not sell grains, which is stupid because we pretty much grow it all haha. The only way I think I can get it would be to order it onlinne, which could be expensive. Its a little to advanced for me at the moment, but perhaps that is the only option i have in the future.

Yes you could add oak in the fashion you suggest, though the water would tend to water down your beer a little. That may not be a big deal if you've got a pretty big beer, however.

As for your LHBS' shortcomings, you could do a couple things. Just ordering some grains for steeping online shouldn't be too expensive. Or you could try talking to your LHBS guy to see if he can order the grains for you. Perhaps if enough brewers start doing that, it could prompt him to start keeping the stuff around, unless there is some regulation preventing it.

I'm anxious to hear how your beer turns out -- keep us posted!

 

[hercher]

I just did some quick online searching regarding homebrew shops. I see you live in the Toronto area. Have you checked out this place: URL="http://www.torontobrewing.ca"]http://www.torontobrewing.ca[/URL]

 

[Jon112]

I have not seen that site before and I have looked around, so that is perfect! so thank you.

I will keep you posted. I will post my final recipie and take into account the advice I got from everyone. Thanks