Adding Depth to your Cider

[CorduroyClub]

Hi all, I've been a reader of the forum for a few months and decided to make an account now that I'm starting do brew. I've got 2 very basic cider and sugar batches and one that's more experimental (honey, sugar, vanilla, pear juice), all small scale.

I generally prefer drier ciders, my favorite commercial one I've tried is Angry Orchard's Strawman. It retains an apple flavor while achieving wine-like complexity and 10% abv. I've seen EdWort's Apfelwine (which I'll have to brew sometime) and saw that he highly recommends aging. Is that the best way to get some depth in cider? I'll of course keep mixing up the ingredients, but I'm not quite in a position to go to an apple farm and get specific blends of juice.

Being a fan of the hefeweizen style of beer (and sampling one of my unfinished ciders), I'm also quite curious about what effect leaving our yeast friends in the cider can have. I'm not too picky about cloudiness, and don't want to add any chemicals to clear it up.

I'm not looking to create jet fuel, I'm just of the opinion that cider is great when it's just between a heavier beer and wine on the abv spectrum. Please post any suggestions you have!

Thanks, and happy brewing.

 

[woozl]

I am also a fan of dry ciders. Fermenting temps and yeast can be a big factor in the finished cider. I think for a higher ABV wine style, or sparkling cooler temps
ie. 55F and a slow ferment makes for a complex palate. As soon as it is dry 1.000 rack into a secondary. Not good to leave on the lees. It should clear in a month or two. If you want to carb you may need to add a touch of yeast before bottling.I had a batch that sat four months and never carbed.
Also this style is best after 4-6 months in bottle.
All good things in all good time.
I can make jet fuel in a week next to my furnace.

 

[Bearfoot]

Yeast strain is a good place to start. I've done a few EdWorts with WLP002 English, all of which had a little more depth than an American yeast. Zymurgy had a good write up on yeast choice in cider not too long ago.

One batch I hopped with Mosaic...a light simmer pre-fermentation that added a lot of depth in aroma. Definitely going to keep experimenting with this.

By far my best result was brewing the cider with 100% Brettanomyces. The esters produced were incredible. A big underpitch led to some lactic acid production too which added some desired tartness.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

By far my best result was brewing the cider with 100% Brettanomyces. The esters produced were incredible. A big underpitch led to some lactic acid production too which added some desired tartness.

I have to try this. I've been nursing an all Brett berliner weisse for a while, but a cider sounds crazy.

 

[Stauffbier]

A brett cider does sound amazing. Bearfoot, how long did you let that ferment and/or bulk age?

 

[Bearfoot]

The first one fermented through in 3 weeks and was drank shortly after.

The second one was a smaller pitch, fermented through in about 6 weeks and conditioned for another two. Also drank shortly after. I keep telling myself I'll let one bulk age but I've been so happy with the younger apfelwein so I havn't bothered.

 

[MindenMan]

I have a small amount of a FAJC batch left from a batch bottled in June. This batch was primed and when the fermentation got to where I wanted (I thought) I pasteurized it. At first it really didn't taste like much, kinda apple-y, but warm from the alcohol. As of two weeks ago, the apple flavor has come back, and the alcohol flavor has subsided. For my first real batch of cider (as of then) it motivates me to improve my technique and wait for the prize to show up. I will be less apprehensive about bottle bombs, and carbonation will be slightly more and so will the ending sugar. Unless I Jack it, then all bets are off.

EDIT: I guess I missed the whole point above, but my answer to not enough apple flavor is to add a little apricot flavoring. I found out quite by accident one day, a small amount of apricot extract will really brighten up a glass of cider. And, if your want a definite apple/apricot flavor, a little apricot goes a long way. 2 drops in a 4 oz glass is enough just to brighten the flavor, 2 or 3 more drops changes everything. The only apricot flavor/extract that I like is from Brewmaster company, the others I have tested smelled great, but really had no presence flavor wise.

 

[Bearfoot]

I'm actually going to be bottling an WLP002 Apfelwein tomorrow morning. This batch is intended as gifts for the family, so there's no time to age.

To cover up some of the alcoholic heat Im going to pull off a liter or two of cider and simmer with mulling spices. After some careful testing I'll blend that back into the original batch and bottle.

Love the idea of apricot extract. All I have on hand is peach extract...shall we experiment? =)

 

[MindenMan]

I would check that out asap! Sitting here thinking, I have had many "summer" fruit salads, that contained both apple and one or more stone fruits, so you should be good to go. Without doing anything else, see if the peach balances the alcohol. Shall we experiment? LOL

 

[CorduroyClub]

To cover up some of the alcoholic heat Im going to pull off a liter or two of cider and simmer with mulling spices. After some careful testing I'll blend that back into the original batch and bottle.

Love the idea of apricot extract. All I have on hand is peach extract...shall we experiment? =)

I was wondering why people add spices to water instead of cider, the method you're taking makes more sense.

and I'll follow you on that apricot extract train!

 

[Stauffbier]

I actually bottle my cider with pumpkin pie spice. I really enjoy it that way.

With that said I'm having a bottle of my cider right now with a splash of rum that has been soaking with vanilla bean and dark toasted oak for 4 months. It really does add a tremendous depth to the flavor as we mentioned earlier in this thread. The oak stands out the most.

 

[derekc153]

I personally recommend malic acid and oak. I find dry cider (at least with store-bought juice, even the expensive stuff) tends to be a bit bland and "thin" otherwise. I add about 1 tsp malic acid per gallon, though keep in mind I like sour flavors in general. The oak adds a bit more complexity and maybe some body.

 

[Stauffbier]

I'm lucky that my cider is already pretty sour naturally. I use homegrown Granny Smiths, so it's nice and tart.

 

[RukusDM]

This really isn't straight hard cider but I put about 1 lb of Light DME in my 5 gallon batches and Maltodextrin as well. The DME give a interesting
addition to the taste which I like. The Maltodextrin give a creamier mouth feel than straight cider.

I've also used Dark Brown sugar in some of my batches. The molasses in the dark brown sugar gives the cider a nice taste as well.

 

[Stauffbier]

I use dark brown sugar in mine too..

 

[Bearfoot]

I put about 1 lb of Light DME in my 5 gallon batches and Maltodextrin as well.

Super interesting....how are you getting that stuff into the cider? Dissolving it in cold juice?

Also, are you using the DME in place of corn sugar or in addition?

thanks

 

[RukusDM]

Super interesting....how are you getting that stuff into the cider? Dissolving it in cold juice?

Also, are you using the DME in place of corn sugar or in addition?

thanks

I put the DME and Maltodextrin on the bottom of the fermenter and then pour the juice in on top of it then stir it up.

Regarding Corn Sugar, I don't like using corn sugar. I think this is more because I never liked it in my beer than any other real reason. Adding any kind of sugar to get the SG your looking for is much easier with ciders than with beers.

I use the DME in varying amounts depending on my mood. The batch I did yesterday i used 1lb light dme and dark brown sugar to get to my 1.060 SG I was looking for. Maltodexrin has very low fermentables in it so it will just shift your SG up a bit but won't ferment out.

When I use these combinations in my ciders, when you pour them you will get a head on the cider and it even shows a bit of laceing from the proteins in the Maltodextrin, and a better mouthfeel

Its kindof a blend between cider and beer. Not much beer taste but you can taste the malt and molasses from the dark brown sugar. Really nice and is a hit with everyone who has had it.

A few years ago I brewed 50 gallons and I think the neighbors, my daughter and her friends drank about 40 gallons of it. I only got 10 LOL

 

[HopSong]

I haven't seen anyone mention……. taa daa

Slices of GINGERRRR. It does wonders

 

[RukusDM]

I forgot to mention....prior to bottling if I am bottle carbonating or if I am kegging, I'll taste the cider and check for acidity. I will occasionally add citric acid to tart it up a bit depending on how acidic the juice is that I started with.

I like the fresh taste of the cider when it is just a touch tart to balance the sweet from the sugars.

I bottle and keg my ciders carbonated.

 

[RukusDM]

I haven't seen anyone mention……. taa daa

Slices of GINGERRRR. It does wonders

Hop....that really does sound good

 

[HopSong]

Rukus.. it is.. it's very good.

 

[CorduroyClub]

I haven't seen anyone mention……. taa daa

Slices of GINGERRRR. It does wonders

For my last batch, I sadly couldn't find any ginger at the supermarket I went to! Or Corn Sugar for that matter, I've checked a few places as well.

To help keep improving the thread, my research has found these solutions as well: Tea bags, Lime, and hops. The first 2 for adding tannin, I think I'll try Woodchuck's dry hopped cider before I commit to the latter. Could be interesting with all the options out there

 

[Stauffbier]

This really isn't straight hard cider but I put about 1 lb of Light DME in my 5 gallon batches and Maltodextrin as well. The DME give a interesting
addition to the taste which I like. The Maltodextrin give a creamier mouth feel than straight cider.

I've also used Dark Brown sugar in some of my batches. The molasses in the dark brown sugar gives the cider a nice taste as well.

Does the Maltodextrin leave the cider fairly sweet? I like my cider sweet, but I'm tired of back sweetening with fermentable sugars and pasteurizing. I've been considering using either malto or lactose to back sweeten, so I can get away from pasteurizing.

 

[rocketsan22]

Neither maltodextrin or lactose will give you much noticeable sweetness...

 

[RukusDM]

Does the Maltodextrin leave the cider fairly sweet? I like my cider sweet, but I'm tired of back sweetening with fermentable sugars and pasteurizing. I've been considering using either malto or lactose to back sweeten, so I can get away from pasteurizing.

Maltodextrin is not sweet.

 

[Urkelbot]

Anyone tried that Mexican suger pilnocillo. I saw it at the store the other day and my first thought was cider.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I've added a few cans of FAJC, FWGJC, raisins, brown sugar, molasses, LME, oats, caraway seed, malic acid, acid blend & wine tannin; not all in the same batch mind you, but in different combinations for different batches.

Yesterday I sampled a bottle of Munich graff that I bulk aged for a year & a half, with an ABV of 8.7%, it went down dangerously smooth. A little malt can do wonders for a cider.
Regards, GF.

 

[HopSong]

What in the heck is FWGJC? Sometimes abbreviations work.. but then……. FWGJC? Sheesh

Ok.. a stab… . F is Frozen? C is Concentrate.. J is juice.. G is Grape??? W is Wine???

 

[BobAgain]

Frozen Welches Grape Juice Concentrate??

 

[Bearfoot]

So this thread has gotten me thinking quite deeply about my next batch of Cider. I'd love to add some depth and mouthfeel, but would like to avoid adding DME so I can make sure I have something Gluten Free on tap to offer my SO.

Does anyone have any experience with sorghum syrup and whether or not I might be able to add it pre-fermentation in place of DME?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

What in the heck is FWGJC? Sometimes abbreviations work.. but then……. FWGJC? Sheesh

Ok.. a stab… . F is Frozen? C is Concentrate.. J is juice.. G is Grape??? W is Wine???

FWGJC= Frozen White Grape Juice Concentrate
FAJC= Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate

I thaw them & add to the must; it's a great way to put more juice in your juice. The white grape juice helps to add a bit of body (as well as sugar & acid) without adding any discernable grape flavour if kept at 4 cans or less in 6 gallons.
Regards, GF.

 

[BobAgain]

The white grape juice helps to add a bit of body (as well as sugar & acid) without adding any discernable grape flavour if kept at 4 cans or less in 6 gallons.

I would not have thought of that. Thanks!!