30% Château smoked malt in rauchbier - too much?

[Heinz]

I ordered some malts and I followed a recipe that suggested something like 30% of smoked malt. It appears that not all smoked malts are the same (at all). I read somewhere that one should only use up to 15% of the Château smoked malt. According to brewof.com it's a beechwood smoked malt. Will my beer be undrinkable? Any way to make it less smokey?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Usually one has to brew another beer and blend it down.

In the past, I've found that one can very rarely "fix" a "bad beer".

You will just have to taste is and make that decision.

 

[AlexKay]

I happen to enjoy very smoky beers. I think there's a nonlinear dose-response here; it's not going to taste twice as smoky as if you'd used 15%. Beechwood is lovely and not too assertive, so I'd be hopeful you'll have some drinkable, if not ideal.

The smokiest malts (not including peated malts) are from Sugar Creek, and for those, while 15-20% seems (to me) to be ideal, 30-50% still produces a nice beer. I think you'll be fine, but report back once you've tasted it and let us know.

 

[passedpawn]

I don't think you can have too much smoked malt in a smokebier. I'm sure it depends on your audience, but I like the smoke flavor.

I've used both the weyerman smoked malt, which is smoked over beech, and also the briess cherry smoked. The latter is quite awesome and produces a great beer.

Smoke is like hops. If you make it sweeter, it offsets the smoke. If you want a nice mix, put some crystal malts in there.

Here's a beer I make often (note to self to make soon) that is really good. It's > 50% smoked malts

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/cherry-beech-smokebeer-many-awards.157818/

 

[bracconiere]

Any way to make it less smokey?

i've only made two or three, but time will mellow it out significantly.. maybe try serving it cask style? with some grilled food, smokey beer is sweet smokey to me, go good with grill flavor.....

 

[Heinz]

Thank you for all the replies! So I just try it out and when it is too smokey I leave it to mellow out for some time.

 

[Steveruch]

How old will this smoked malt be when you use it? The smoke fades.
Have you ever tried a grodziskie?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

A pro brewer in Colorado once said, “When it comes to smoke, go big or go home.”

 

[Heinz]

How old will this smoked malt be when you use it? The smoke fades.
Have you ever tried a grodziskie?

I don't know how long it had been in the store. I will use it in the next week sometime. I have tried only one rauchbier that was described as being extra smokey - that's all I remember about it, but I liked it.

 

[Heinz]

A pro brewer in Colorado once said, “When it comes to smoke, go big or go home.”

Heh! Nice to hear!

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Heh! Nice to hear!

With that said, some people seem to be more sensitive to it than others, so the comment above about the audience is spot on. Really it is best to have some balance… Big balance with lots of smoky goodness.

 

[superiorsat]

Drinking smoked beer makes me thirsty, so I drink more smoke beer to fix the situation. I love the Cherry smoked malt.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Me and a friend have brewed Rauchbier several times. We cannot use enough smoked malt - our recipe is now up to 100%. Even then, it is no where near as smoky as the original. They must use smoked malt that is quite fresh. We are thinking of re-smoking smoked malt with a smoker and using that in our next batch.

 

[AlexKay]

I've made rauchbier with ~90% Weyermann rauchmalt without it getting too smoky. Sugar Creek rauchmalt (link) delivers more smokiness at about 15%. Highly recommended.

 

[passedpawn]

Me and a friend have brewed Rauchbier several times. We cannot use enough smoked malt - our recipe is now up to 100%. Even then, it is no where near as smoky as the original. They must use smoked malt that is quite fresh. We are thinking of re-smoking smoked malt with a smoker and using that in our next batch.

I guess you're gonna have to go nuclear then.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/100-peated-ale.276443/

 

[lumpher]

Now I'm wanting a Rauchbier. Haven't made 1 in years. I did just finish a Smoked Chipotle Imperial Porter, which was good, but a Cherrywood Smoked Beer would hit the spot with some Texas Summer Barbeque.

 

[passedpawn]

Now I'm wanting a Rauchbier. Haven't made 1 in years. I did just finish a Smoked Chipotle Imperial Porter, which was good, but a Cherrywood Smoked Beer would hit the spot with some Texas Summer Barbeque.

Yes it wood

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I guess you're gonna have to go nuclear then.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/100-peated-ale.276443/

Thanks, that recipe really 'smokes'. Yes, I had considered maybe increasing the gravity to get more of the smoke flavor. Why not? It's a sipping beer anyways, and would be nice in front of a fireplace - or campfire. So maybe rather than making a Peated Malt SMaSH, I'll make a Smoked Malt SMaSH!

 

[Heinz]

Update: Tasted it when bottling. It doesn't taste smoky at all! Disappointed. I think I should have used 100% smoked malt or maybe there was a mixup.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Update: Tasted it when bottling. It doesn't taste smoky at all! Disappointed. I think I should have used 100% smoked malt or maybe there was a mixup.

As mentioned above, even 100% smoked malt is not enough. Doesn't come close to the original. I think you need the smoked malt as fresh as possible. We are thinking of re-smoking the smoked malt before use.

 

[homebrudoc]

passedpawn posted it.

I guess you're gonna have to go nuclear then.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/100-peated-ale.276443/

You're making me want to go get one out of the basement. Yes, I made it and have 20 lbs of peat malt waiting for a yeast cake. My wife can't stand the smell but it's really a very good beer.
homebrudoc

 

[Heinz]

Just for the truth's sake - after all, the beer came a bit smokey and all the other side tastes subsided. So not a bad beer.

 

[mashpaddled]

Smoked beers aren't difficult to brew but they are difficult to nail because everybody has a different idea of what is too smoky and the age of the grain can change a lot about potency. A 50% freshly smoked malt beer might be considerably more smoky than a 100% rauchmalz beer with grain that sat in the homebrew shop for nine months before you bought it. Unless you buy by the sack there's no good way to reliably buy fresh smoked malts at most shops. Smoked beers just aren't popular enough to rotate fresh stock enough. I've been happier smoking malt at home than anything I've personally bought smoked.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

As mentioned above, even 100% smoked malt is not enough. Doesn't come close to the original. I think you need the smoked malt as fresh as possible. We are thinking of re-smoking the smoked malt before use.

Success! A friend and I used a smoker to re-smoke smoked grain and we also smoked some regular pilsner grain, using hickory wood. We spend a few hours smoking it, then left it in paper bags for a couple of weeks (to de-gas) before making the rauchbier. We were worried about there still being enough enzymes to mash it but there was no difficulty doing so.

The resultant smokiness was as good and strong as the German version. Very smooth, smoky and enjoyable, and maybe even better than the original (although I've never had the original fresh at the Brewery). See attached photo of my friend in front of the smoker.

 

[minmaxx77]

I Hope you or other see this

Update: Tasted it when bottling. It doesn't taste smoky at all! Disappointed. I think I should have used 100% smoked malt or maybe there was a mixup.

Man i was about to order grains for smoky porter and based on castle malting recommendation were thinking only about 10%. Thx for the report.

and all the other side tastes subsided. So not a bad beer.

By that do you mean that smoke did hide all the other flavours in beer but smoke just wasnt strong enough for your taste?

I am looking to make Porter that has clearly noticeable forward smokeyness, but not too overpowering so you can still taste those malty, roasty, chocolate notes on the back.

Im am now thinking to go from 10%>>>15%?

 

[Heinz]

I Hope you or other see this

Man i was about to order grains for smoky porter and based on castle malting recommendation were thinking only about 10%. Thx for the report.

By that do you mean that smoke did hide all the other flavours in beer but smoke just wasnt strong enough for your taste?

I am looking to make Porter that has clearly noticeable forward smokeyness, but not too overpowering so you can still taste those malty, roasty, chocolate notes on the back.

Im am now thinking to go from 10%>>>15%?

As far as I remember, I meant that the other side tastes hid the smokiness at the beginning but they did go away (almost) and the smokiness remained. The smokiness of the grains depends on what wood was used, how long were they smoked and how long ago. So if you got the recommendation from the same source you got the malts, that might be appropriate recommendation but otherwise yes, increase the percentage if you are not afraid of smokiness.

Also I checked google for the spelling of "smokiness".

Since you already resurrected the thread, keep us posted what your results will be.

 

[minmaxx77]

, I meant that the other side tastes hid the smokiness at the beginning but they did go away (almost) and the smokiness remained.

Thanks for clarifying. (I'm "not best at english")

The smokiness of the grains depends on what wood was used, how long were they smoked and how long ago. So if you got the recommendation from the same source you got the malts, that might be appropriate recommendation but otherwise yes, increase the percentage if you are not afraid of smokiness.

I got the info on castle malting home page. Info for 2023 crops:
"...beech wood, this malt develops an intense smoky flavour...Up to 15% of the mix..."
Same info is on my LHBS website so i belive they have the same 2023 crop? How long or how is it stored. Who knows.
I think i am just gonna swing it either on 12% or 15% or even 20% (if latter then maybe use more melano or something to still get some maltiness).

Since you already resurrected the thread, keep us posted what your results will be.

Yes. Definetly will report back once done ( i cant stand when people start the thread get all the suggestions and never share the final outcome)

FYI-I will try to brew this or next weekend.

 

[G_robertus]

I Hope you or other see this

Man i was about to order grains for smoky porter and based on castle malting recommendation were thinking only about 10%. Thx for the report.

By that do you mean that smoke did hide all the other flavours in beer but smoke just wasnt strong enough for your taste?

I am looking to make Porter that has clearly noticeable forward smokeyness, but not too overpowering so you can still taste those malty, roasty, chocolate notes on the back.

Im am now thinking to go from 10%>>>15%?

I don't have experience with Castle Malt, but from my experience with Weyermann and Steinbach:
Assuming you're in the US, the malt is probably older and not as intense as when fresh. Even when fresh Weyermann is not very pungent (and it seems to be decreasing further) and from the replies in this thread neither is Castle. I've tried <10% in dark beer before and it gets you complexity, but not much of smoke. In fact I couldn't pick it out with all the other stuff. Only that it tastes richer compared to when it is not present. Depending on how much smoke you want, don't be afraid to substitute half/all of your base malt for smoked malt.
The thing with smoke and freshness is that you need a lot of trial and error to dial in the right amount, but compensating for freshness makes that extremely difficult sometimes. I usually err on the high side and if needed I'll age the beer very long, although admittedly that almost never happens.

 

[minmaxx77]

I don't have experience with Castle Malt, but from my experience with Weyermann and Steinbach:
Assuming you're in the US, the malt is probably older and not as intense as when fresh. Even when fresh Weyermann is not very pungent (and it seems to be decreasing further) and from the replies in this thread neither is Castle. I've tried <10% in dark beer before and it gets you complexity, but not much of smoke. In fact I couldn't pick it out with all the other stuff. Only that it tastes richer compared to when it is not present. Depending on how much smoke you want, don't be afraid to substitute half/all of your base malt for smoked malt.
The thing with smoke and freshness is that you need a lot of trial and error to dial in the right amount, but compensating for freshness makes that extremely difficult sometimes. I usually err on the high side and if needed I'll age the beer very long, although admittedly that almost never happens.

Im from Europe, Estonia.
I want that rich flavour party of chocolate, malt, roastiness... and smoke in the centre stage. But not so strong i cant taste those other flavours.

I think I never had smoked beer before. But I'm definitely not afraid of smoke. I really enjoy peated whiskeys for example.
But for this brew i want something medium. Not just hint of smoke nor full on smoke beer.

Maybe ill go 20% then

 

[G_robertus]

The the freshness is probably less of an issue, although you never know. I live nextdoor and mine isn't always fresh either. I need to check my notes on my last smoked porter to be sure, but I think the last time I used ~30% for noticeable smoke that wasn't overpowering. So I think your plan is will probably work out or at least give you a clear guideline of whether you need more or less.

Edit: I've used 19% of oak smoked wheat for a very light touch and 30% beechwood smoked malt for a more assertive, but still quite subtle touch of smoke. I'm still planning a stout with all smoked malt, but that's a long way down the line.