☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[jammin]

^agreed about brewing water temp.

Grinder is key though as well. If you don't have a solid burr grinder - you have no idea what you're missing. I cant emphasize that enough. Baratza is guaranteed quality grinds and breville makes one called the smart grinder that is solid.

If you're not grinding the coffee properly and brewing at the proper temps; i hate to say it, your coffee sucks.

 

[roastquake]

Here's a picture of the resulting coffee. It's not as bad as I originally thought. In fact, might work out perfectly since I intended to go for a slightly darker roast than what I've been doing.

Looks great! Yirgacheffe is usually the exception but with most Ethiopians you can expect an uneven roast, especially the natural (dry) processed ones. The reason is they don't typically screen for size, except Yirga, which is generally the only wet processed coffee which is screened for size. To me the different size beans just gives the coffee more character.

About the whirly, that's exactly what happened to mine and that's why I just use a spoon now

 

[Chuginator]

^agreed about brewing water temp.

Grinder is key though as well. If you don't have a solid burr grinder - you have no idea what you're missing. I cant emphasize that enough. Baratza is guaranteed quality grinds and breville makes one called the smart grinder that is solid.

If you're not grinding the coffee properly and brewing at the proper temps; i hate to say it, your coffee sucks.

LOL! We need to talk!

I've also read on the CoffeeGeeks forum - some were saying that the grinder makes the most impact. However, I just can't quite wrap my head around that, unless they're referring to espresso? Does it really have that huge of an impact with drip?

I even remember Michael Symon being quizzed about coffee once, and he was saying that consistent grinds are key to a good cup. I dismissed it as a reference to espresso grinds, where I thought it'd be more critical.

When I considered a burr grinder I was also looking at the Baratza, but just haven't pulled the trigger on it - because it is expensive, and if it doesn't make a real big difference for drip compared to a whirly grinder, then I'm probably going to drag my feet. However, if you tell me that it makes a noticeable improvement (again, for drip), then I'm going to get serious about it, buy one, compare, and report.

As a side question, which model of Baratza do you have?

 

[jammin]

^ive literally spent thousands on coffee equipment over the years from espresso to drip.

The grinder is the key piece of equipment no matter the preparation (spro/drip). I've used almost all the baratza grinders and the Virtuoso is about the best for drip. I'm currently using a Vario-W with upgraded Ditting burrs. I pair that with a digital kettle for very consistent results.

Check with Kyle at baratza for a refurb Virtuoso - it will be the best money you've ever spent. If you get one - Id be happ to send you some home roast

 

[TallDan]

The consistent grind that you get from a good burr grinder is important regardless of how you brew the coffee. Of course, some brewing methods are more sensitive to the grind consistency than others, but it affects all kinds. Your brew temperature and time are a constant with a drip brewer, but that temperature and time may be overextracting or underextracting the coffee during brewing depending on the grind of the coffee. If the grind is inconsistent, you can overextract the finer ground coffee while underextracting the coarser ground coffee. When you use a burr grinder, you first get a consistent grind and second can adjust it for optimum extraction.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I don't have much experience with grinding. I get my coffee espresso ground when I buy it. this last batch I got I used the grinder in the grocery store, which I have never done before. my espresso machine hardly pushes through it. I tested with coarser ground coffee and that extracts fine (as well as one could possibly expect anyway). could the espresso ground be too fine? there was one setting on the grinder past espresso, but I'm damn sure I didn't set it there since I have a setting OCD issue.

 

[Chuginator]

^ive literally spent thousands on coffee equipment over the years from espresso to drip.

The grinder is the key piece of equipment no matter the preparation (spro/drip). I've used almost all the baratza grinders and the Virtuoso is about the best for drip. I'm currently using a Vario-W with upgraded Ditting burrs. I pair that with a digital kettle for very consistent results.

Check with Kyle at baratza for a refurb Virtuoso - it will be the best money you've ever spent. If you get one - Id be happ to send you some home roast

Thank you for the input. I think you have me convinced. I'll keep my eyes open for a Virtuoso refurb. As for the home roast - I've got that covered, but thank you very much for the offer!

 

[TallDan]

I don't have much experience with grinding. I get my coffee espresso ground when I buy it. this last batch I got I used the grinder in the grocery store, which I have never done before. my espresso machine hardly pushes through it. I tested with coarser ground coffee and that extracts fine (as well as one could possibly expect anyway). could the espresso ground be too fine? there was one setting on the grinder past espresso, but I'm damn sure I didn't set it there since I have a setting OCD issue.

It should take something around 25 seconds to make shots of espresso. The grind is key, but not the only factor in how long it takes to brew. I adjust the grinder from one shot to the next depending on how it's brewing, it will depends on the roast level, freshness, and type of coffee.

I'd strongly advise you to get a burr grinder. It's going to be very difficult to consistently get good espresso without it, ground coffee does not say fresh very long at all.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

It should take something around 25 seconds to make shots of espresso. The grind is key, but not the only factor in how long it takes to brew. I adjust the grinder from one shot to the next depending on how it's brewing, it will depends on the roast level, freshness, and type of coffee.

I'd strongly advise you to get a burr grinder. It's going to be very difficult to consistently get good espresso without it, ground coffee does not say fresh very long at all.

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

 

[jammin]

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

what he was trying to say was, there is no way to know. flow rate can be affected by the type of coffee and the amount dosed. it can also be influenced by how old the coffee is (how long ago it was roasted). pre-ground is also a complete "no-no" for coffee, especially espresso.

in any case - it is entirely possible that your coffee is ground "too fine". it is also hard to say, as we do not know what kind of machine you're using.

1 helpful question you can answer: are you using a pressurized porta-filter? these are characterized by a flow restrictor which causes pressure to build in the filter basket and assist with building crema. In a "real" espresso machine, the porta-filter is non-pressurized and allows the user to select their preferred filter basket.

If you have a cheap espresso machine, these normally have pressurized filter baskets. These type of filter baskets do not need a fine, traditional espresso range grind range due to the nature of the basket.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

what he was trying to say was, there is no way to know. flow rate can be affected by the type of coffee and the amount dosed. it can also be influenced by how old the coffee is (how long ago it was roasted). pre-ground is also a complete "no-no" for coffee, especially espresso.

in any case - it is entirely possible that your coffee is ground "too fine". it is also hard to say, as we do not know what kind of machine you're using.

1 helpful question you can answer: are you using a pressurized porta-filter? these are characterized by a flow restrictor which causes pressure to build in the filter basket and assist with building crema. In a "real" espresso machine, the porta-filter is non-pressurized and allows the user to select their preferred filter basket.

If you have a cheap espresso machine, these normally have pressurized filter baskets. These type of filter baskets do not need a fine, traditional espresso range grind range due to the nature of the basket.

I'm a weekend warrior with espresso. thought that was quite obvious with what I was saying & asking. but again, thanks for the info. I'll go back to what I was getting before the issue began. I'd learn more about all the intricacies of coffee, but my brain is full of beer & welding.

 

[HoppyDaze]

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

Love this response

 

[Chuginator]

Well, I picked up a Baratza Virtuoso, and have been tinkering with it. I tried both extremes of the recommended range for drip (16 - 32). 32 was way too coarse and the body suffered badly. 16 was definitely the better option! Tried the 18-22 ranges too, but am favoring the finer grind. 14 was approaching the area where the water wasn't filtering through the paper filter well.

Gotta say though - I still think the coffee maker itself made much more of an impact on flavor than the grinder, and the coffee didn't suck making it with a whirly; but it is improved with a burr grinder.

 

[banesong]

Is there anyone in the DC area on this thread? I am uncertain on the quality of my roast and would love some feedback.

 

[ajrunningbiking]

Well, I picked up a Baratza Virtuoso, and have been tinkering with it. I tried both extremes of the recommended range for drip (16 - 32). 32 was way too coarse and the body suffered badly. 16 was definitely the better option! Tried the 18-22 ranges too, but am favoring the finer grind. 14 was approaching the area where the water wasn't filtering through the paper filter well.

Gotta say though - I still think the coffee maker itself made much more of an impact on flavor than the grinder, and the coffee didn't suck making it with a whirly; but it is improved with a burr grinder.

The key to the coffee maker is water temp, too low, not enough extraction. I don't own any fancy drip coffee maker. I will say having gone through a few in my day. Having a good grinder helps to dial in the grind to your coffee maker. A technivorm brewer is on my wish list one of these days!!

 

[TallDan]

The key to the coffee maker is water temp, too low, not enough extraction. I don't own any fancy drip coffee maker. I will say having gone through a few in my day. Having a good grinder helps to dial in the grind to your coffee maker. A technivorm brewer is on my wish list one of these days!!

For anyone on the fence, it seems to me that a technivorm is a "buy once, cry once" type of purchase. A couple years ago when my wife and I were registering for our wedding, we were given the advice to register for a coffee maker because "they only last about 5 years, and that way you'll have a backup". Well, the only coffee maker we registered for was a chemex pourover because I've had my Technivorm for over 10 years now and it has never had any issue whatsoever. It's also fairly simply built so that the few parts that may wear can be simply replaced. The carafe in mine may be replaced soon as it's starting to show some wear.

 

[EddieB_LTB]

I'm considering it quality control to pick out a couple beans that look a little underroasted while cooling and eat them.

Some of the light colored beans are called stink beans/Quakers. These should be taken out before brewing because they can in part off flavors. Often times you will find these little buggers in coffees that have gone through the natural process of drying which produces some of the more interesting characteristics to be found in coffee but tends to contain more defects. In small home roasting batches it is easy enough to pick them out. Hope this helps...

 

[FloridaMarine]

New to home brewing but I have been roasting for 8 years. Glad to answer anyone's questions. I roast with a SC/TO. Have built a few poppery roasters also.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I stumbled across this thread by complete accident last week. Got crazy enough to buy some green beans on my way home from work and roasted them up in a whirly pop I had laying around. Delicious.

Question though: I was cranking the whirly pop the whole time, and I didn't really hear much of a "first crack" sound. Maybe I heard some popping very faintly around 7 or 8 mins in. When I lifted the lid and looked at 10 mins, they were darker than I had hoped to get. They probably turned out more like a Vienna roast, while I wanted something lighter, like a City roast.

So, the question is, how loud is the cracking we are to be listening for?

Thanks everyone for posting thus far - it was encouragement for me to get into it.

 

[passedpawn]

I stumbled across this thread by complete accident last week. Got crazy enough to buy some green beans on my way home from work and roasted them up in a whirly pop I had laying around. Delicious.

Question though: I was cranking the whirly pop the whole time, and I didn't really hear much of a "first crack" sound. Maybe I heard some popping very faintly around 7 or 8 mins in. When I lifted the lid and looked at 10 mins, they were darker than I had hoped to get. They probably turned out more like a Vienna roast, while I wanted something lighter, like a City roast.

So, the question is, how loud is the cracking we are to be listening for?

Thanks everyone for posting thus far - it was encouragement for me to get into it.

The cracking is pretty loud to me. Sounds a lot like popcorn. I can't really discern the 1st crack from the second, so I go by color and time.

It's better to pull it a little early. The beans keep cooking and darkening for a minute or two after you pull it off the heat. If you see oils coming out of the beans, you went too far. The oils do seem to leak out after a few days, but if you see them during cooking it's gone past vienna in my experience.

 

[FloridaMarine]

Smoke and chaff burn off are clues for first crack...but you will hear it. 2nd cracks are faint, and smoke will go way up. I profile my roasts....ramping up heat as time goes on to delay the roast time. I usually roast light...city city plus. I hate over roasted beans...taste charred.

 

[roastquake]

I stumbled across this thread by complete accident last week. Got crazy enough to buy some green beans on my way home from work and roasted them up in a whirly pop I had laying around. Delicious.

Question though: I was cranking the whirly pop the whole time, and I didn't really hear much of a "first crack" sound. Maybe I heard some popping very faintly around 7 or 8 mins in. When I lifted the lid and looked at 10 mins, they were darker than I had hoped to get. They probably turned out more like a Vienna roast, while I wanted something lighter, like a City roast.

So, the question is, how loud is the cracking we are to be listening for?

Thanks everyone for posting thus far - it was encouragement for me to get into it.

I understand the predicament of a "single crack" when home roasting. So I like to use a technique I learned pro roasting. Start taking samples every few minutes when the cracking starts. Take note of the wrinkles on the surface of the beans, also take note of the muddled color. As your beans roast, the wrinkles smooth out and the color evens out and darkens (as you know), once you notice this smoothing effect, you can be certain enough that you are somewhere between the end of 1st crack and the beginning of 2nd crack

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Well, here is a mini update for anyone who was interested, and some info I've learned in the past week or so.

-First, my first roasted batch turned out tasting incredible. In Chicago we have access to some fantastic fresh roasted beans (La Colombe, for example) and these home roasted ones tasted comparably well. The wife and I enjoyed the heck out of this batch....buuuuut, the half pound I roasted didn't last long

-I went about roasting the other half pound of beans we had. I did the same procedure as before: Whirlypop on the grill's side burner, preheating on high heat for about 5-7 mins, then adding the beans and keeping the heat on low. After about 7.5 mins I decided to look and see how brown they were looking (they hadn't made a noise yet) and to my surprise they looked no different then when I had added them to the Whirlypop and showed no signs of roasting.

-I realized the wind was blowing my burner's flame all over the place. I cranked up the heat, eventually raising it to the highest level, but still had a really hard time. I had a timer going, and I think I was at about 30 mins when I finally decided they looked roasted enough. Of course, by this time it was dark out and even with patio lighting I couldn't see much.

-I killed the flame, dumped the beans into a collander, and began tossing them around, and didn't notice much coming off the beans. Eventually brought them inside and found that they weren't roasted nearly enough. At this point, the wind was worse and it was real dark, so I quit. I cranked that Whirlypop for about 40 mins and couldn't even get a city roast.

-For kicks and giggles, a couple days later I ground it up and tried the coffee. Yeah, it was bad. Took about 5 sips and dumped the beans in the trash.

So, I guess I learned not to try roasting when it's windy because I just couldn't keep the flame going. Another interesting thing was I had posted a few days back about not being able to hear the crack. I was using a peaberry bean, which I read elsewhere is prone to give very faint cracks which some can not easily hear. Couple faint cracking noises with the sounds of passing cars and sirens outside my patio, and I probably just didn't catch it in my first roast attempt a couple weeks ago.

In short, I ordered a 4 lb sampler from Sweet Maria's and I'm looking forward to trying it again. The first batch turned out very well, so I can't wait to try to replicate it again.

 

[passedpawn]

.buuuuut, the half pound I roasted didn't last long

Yep.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

You guys all got me hooked, by the way. I hadn't given a lot of thought towards roasting until stumbling across this thread, and after reading all the pages I gave it a go and fell in love. I ordered the new Behmor 1600 Plus, and should be roasting with it come early November.

So, thanks to everyone who contributed to this forum regarding their roasting and experiences. It helped introduce me to a new hobby in addition to the beer.

 

[passedpawn]

You guys all got me hooked, by the way. I hadn't given a lot of thought towards roasting until stumbling across this thread, and after reading all the pages I gave it a go and fell in love. I ordered the new Behmor 1600 Plus, and should be roasting with it come early November.

So, thanks to everyone who contributed to this forum regarding their roasting and experiences. It helped introduce me to a new hobby in addition to the beer.

Sweet!

Now, start making cheese!

 

[jammin]

What is everyone's take on roasting a coffee for an imperial coffee stout?

my thoughts are to roasting it at a medium to long pace (12-15 minutes total roast time) and take it to full city+ (the 1st snaps of 2nd crack).

this might be tough to do on air roaster, but drum roaster types should have no trouble.

air roaster guys - what's your technique?

 

[TallDan]

You guys all got me hooked, by the way. I hadn't given a lot of thought towards roasting until stumbling across this thread, and after reading all the pages I gave it a go and fell in love. I ordered the new Behmor 1600 Plus, and should be roasting with it come early November.

So, thanks to everyone who contributed to this forum regarding their roasting and experiences. It helped introduce me to a new hobby in addition to the beer.

I've been stalking sweet maria's for when the 1600 plus gets back in stock. I'm ready to go ahead with it myself. Where did you order yours from?

What is everyone's take on roasting a coffee for an imperial coffee stout?

my thoughts are to roasting it at a medium to long pace (12-15 minutes total roast time) and take it to full city+ (the 1st snaps of 2nd crack).

this might be tough to do on air roaster, but drum roaster types should have no trouble.

air roaster guys - what's your technique?

I would roast lighter. Your beer will probably have plenty of roastyness and bitterness without the coffee (unless you've adjusted your recipe for it). You really want to just get the coffee flavor here, and a brighter coffee flavor would match better, I think. From my (limited) experience with the popcorn popper roaster, I'd go just past the first crack. That said, I've only made one coffee stout. It turned out quite well, but I'm far from an expert.

 

[jammin]

^i did a lighter roast for my first coffee beer. the acidity and origin flavors did not go well with the stout imo. it did smoot out over time, but i didn't like it at first at all.

Im always interested to revisit things and hear other experiences though!

 

[TallDan]

^i did a lighter roast for my first coffee beer. the acidity and origin flavors did not go well with the stout imo. it did smoot out over time, but i didn't like it at first at all.

Im always interested to revisit things and hear other experiences though!

How did you brew the coffee for the last batch and how do you plan to brew it for this one? The one I did was Intelligentsia Black Cat coffee and I brewed espresso and poured it into the secondary. I don't get a lot of bitterness in the espresso as long as i don't over-extract it

 

[jammin]

i think i put it in a fine mesh bag and let hang out in the primary for about 5 days. the coffee flavor was strong and i did use quite a bit that might have something to do with it.

coffee is one of those things there isn't really any solid guidance on. no tried n true rules of thumb it seems

 

[TallDan]

i think i put it in a fine mesh bag and let hang out in the primary for about 5 days. the coffee flavor was strong and i did use quite a bit that might have something to do with it.

coffee is one of those things there isn't really any solid guidance on. no tried n true rules of thumb it seems

Agreed. Lots of conflicting opinions on the best way to add coffee to beer.

Mmm... Espresso...

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I've been stalking sweet maria's for when the 1600 plus gets back in stock. I'm ready to go ahead with it myself. Where did you order yours from?

I ordered from Roastmasters.com. I looked all around the web for the best price and availability, but no one had anything. All the roaster sale sites started to offer good deals for pre-ordering the Behmor, and the best two deals I found were:

1) Roastmasters: Behmor 1600 Plus for $369, 8lbs free coffee, free shipping, and $10 credit toward future coffee purchase of $25. Ship roaster end of October.

2) Sweet Marias: Behmor 1600 Plus for $369, 8lbs free coffee. Ship roaster early November.

So I opted for the guaranteed free shipping (couldn't figure out if Sweet Marias offered it), and I'll get the $10 credit.

I'd say no matter who you go with, try to pre-order. Only a few sites were allowing pre-order, but that way you are on the list. I got an email from Roastmasters yesterday saying my roaster will ship on or around Oct. 30.

 

[jammin]

have you guys contacted behmor for a refurb?

the list is usually long, but it's it a good savings. might as well put your name in the hat.


also - why not get a drum roaster? they are more expensive but offer MUCH more control over the roast. I've roasted on nearly everything and a Hottop (manual version) is a fantastic entry level choice.

 

[TallDan]

I ordered from Roastmasters.com. I looked all around the web for the best price and availability, but no one had anything. All the roaster sale sites started to offer good deals for pre-ordering the Behmor, and the best two deals I found were:

1) Roastmasters: Behmor 1600 Plus for $369, 8lbs free coffee, free shipping, and $10 credit toward future coffee purchase of $25. Ship roaster end of October.

2) Sweet Marias: Behmor 1600 Plus for $369, 8lbs free coffee. Ship roaster early November.

So I opted for the guaranteed free shipping (couldn't figure out if Sweet Marias offered it), and I'll get the $10 credit.

I'd say no matter who you go with, try to pre-order. Only a few sites were allowing pre-order, but that way you are on the list. I got an email from Roastmasters yesterday saying my roaster will ship on or around Oct. 30.

Awesome. Roastmasters says they'll be on stock on the 30th for current orders as well. Preordered. On top of the $10 credit and free shipping, they're on the east coast, so it will get here sooner than sweet maria's. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

have you guys contacted behmor for a refurb?

the list is usually long, but it's it a good savings. might as well put your name in the hat.


also - why not get a drum roaster? they are more expensive but offer MUCH more control over the roast. I've roasted on nearly everything and a Hottop (manual version) is a fantastic entry level choice.

I thought about going the refurb route, but from pricing I saw, it didn't seem necessarily worth it for the wait and having a refurb unit. Plus it wouldn't have the latest control board, so there is that part of it if it's a priority to some.

Well, the Behmor is a drum roaster, so I suppose it falls into that category. But why not a Hottop? It's 3x the price as the Behmor and can't handle as heavy of a load as I understand (1/2 lb in the Hottop vs 1 lb in the Behmor). Since I roast very light roasts, I should be able to get away with 1lb roasts in the Behmor.

But in terms of price, there is no way I'm going to drop over a thousand bucks on my first roaster. I'm married, after all

 

[TallDan]

I thought about going the refurb route, but from pricing I saw, it didn't seem necessarily worth it for the wait and having a refurb unit. Plus it wouldn't have the latest control board, so there is that part of it if it's a priority to some.

Well, the Behmor is a drum roaster, so I suppose it falls into that category. But why not a Hottop? It's 3x the price as the Behmor and can't handle as heavy of a load as I understand (1/2 lb in the Hottop vs 1 lb in the Behmor). Since I roast very light roasts, I should be able to get away with 1lb roasts in the Behmor.

But in terms of price, there is no way I'm going to drop over a thousand bucks on my first roaster. I'm married, after all

Agreed on all points with the refurb. It would have to save me more money than it does. I also looked at used 1600's on ebay and such, considering that the control board can be swapped out, but used roasters in decent condition are going for almost $300. By the time you consider shipping costs, the 8lb sampler, and the control board, there is very little savings over new.

Also have to agree on behmor vs hottop. For a first roaster (well, second after re-purposing the popcorn popper) $1k just seems excessive. I'll see how long i stick with roasting coffee with the behmor. If it seems like i'll get the use out of it, I might switch up to a hot top in a few years, and given what I mentioned above about prices of used behmors I won't lose much money on it.

 

[jammin]

^hottop sells refutes as well. that's how I got my first one. HT's are well built and easy to fix too.


if you want to do 1lb roasts in your behmor - get yourself a good variac and kill-a-watt. 1lb is a big job on any roaster working off of 110v. doesn't matter what BS rating is slapped on it.

 

[TallDan]

My order on roastmasters now has a fedex tracking number (it doesn't work yet) and according to their website all backordered 1600+ roasters will ship Monday.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

My order on roastmasters now has a fedex tracking number (it doesn't work yet) and according to their website all backordered 1600+ roasters will ship Monday.

Ooooohhhhhh baby! I can't wait to get this in;was bummed it got delayed a bit. I just checked and my order now has a tracking number as well.

The weather here has been too cold for me to roast for a few weeks, since I usually open my windows to get a breeze through the place. This roaster can't come soon enough - I've been drinking garbage store-bought coffee!!!