Testing the all-grain water...feedback appreciated.

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

Hey, guys and gals. I'm planning my first all-grain brew here in a few weeks. Before I get rolling, though, I wanted to get some feedback on the recipe and procedure that I have thrown together. I've tried to keep the recipe pretty simple being my first step into the all-grain world, so go easy on me. The plan is an American-styled IPA with Falconer's Flight as the only hop since I already have them on hand and, quite honestly, I've heard great things about them so I wanted to have a brew that would allow me to get a feel (taste?) for what they can bring to the party. Here is what I have right now...

Batch size: 2.5 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (is this a bold assumption for my first all-grain?)
Target OG: 1.069
Target FG: 1.014
ABV: 7.2%
IBU: 68
SRM: 11

Fermentables:
6 lb Maris Otter
8 oz Crystal 60

Hops:
.75 oz Falconer's Flight @ 60 minutes
.5 oz Falconer's Flight @ 20 minutes
.75 oz Falconer's Flight dry hop for 10 days.

Yeast:
Nottingham dry ale yeast

Other:
Whirlfloc @ 15 minutes (should I only use 1/2 tablet?)

The procedure that I have in mind, and feel free to critique the h-e-double-hockeysticks outta this, is to heat 2 gallons of water to around 175* and then add that to my mash tun (converted 5 gallon igloo with CPVC manifold) and allow that to come down to around 163*-165* before doughing in, stirring like a mad man and then mashing for 60 minutes at my 152* target. Vourlauf (I absolutely LOVE that word ) until the runnings are clear and drain into the kettle. If my calculations are correct, I should need another 2.3 gallons or so of sparge water (I will be batch sparging) that I will heat to 170*, add to the tun and stir. Let that sit for 20 minutes then vourlauf until clear again, then drain the tun into the kettle, hopefully bringing me to a pre-boil volume of 3.5 gallons. After that, it's all downhill and similar to my extract brewing experiences, yeah?

I will be chilling in an ice bath to around 65* and transfering to my fermenter before pitching. I have a 5 gallon glass carboy and I have a Mr. Beer LBK...what would be your fermenting vessel of choice? I plan on letting it ferment in my basement (65ish*) for about 2 weeks, then (as long as all is well with gravity) add the dry hop addition to the primary and let it set for another 10 days before bottling.

Feedback? Comments? Suggestions? Any and all are greatly appreciated!

 

[Copbrew133]

Why the mix of the base grains (MO & 2 row)? or is it some grain you're trying to use up. Everything else looks good to me. Only suggestions I would have is to have a very reliable thermometer, prefereably calibrated, as your mash temps are important & keep an eye on your second runnings to make sure the gravity isn't getting too low and possibly extracting tannins from the mash due to Ph levels. A half tab of Whirlfoc will work for this. Good luck.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

Why the mix of the base grains (MO & 2 row)?

Honestly, I don't have a reason. Would you just let it fly with 6 lbs of MO?

 

[Copbrew133]

Yeah, I think so, that one pound of two row isn't really gonna change much, so I'd just go all MO as the base and be done with it.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

Yeah, I think so, that one pound of two row isn't really gonna change much, so I'd just go all MO as the base and be done with it.

Fair enough...6 lbs of Maris Otter it is. I appreciate the feedback, and I have adjusted the recipe in the OP to reflect the change.

 

[JDGator]

one thing you will find is everyone will change your recipe some. some for personal preference and some because it needs changed for style etc. sometimes you just gotta brew it and and learn from the outcome, good or bad.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

one thing you will find is everyone will change your recipe some. some for personal preference and some because it needs changed for style etc. sometimes you just gotta brew it and and learn from the outcome, good or bad.

I had given some serious consideration to only using MO and Crystal 60 from the get go...but I had seen several recipes using a small bit of 2-row with MO making up the majority of the grain bill. I never wondered if there was a reason for it, I only assumed that there must be a reason for it. Therefore, I threw a pound in there because "all the cool kids are doing it".

 

[ronjonacron]

one thing you will find is everyone will change your recipe some. some for personal preference and some because it needs changed for style etc. sometimes you just gotta brew it and and learn from the outcome, good or bad.

I frequently use MO for my base grain instead of american row, even in american style beers. I like the little bit of extra maltiness even.in hop forward beers.

 

[mblanks2]

So here's my 2 cent.
1) With the grain bill you have for a 2.5 gallon batch that puts your caramel malts at 7.7%. I typically like my caramels at 5% or less which cuts down on the residual sweetness. 5 ounces will give you the 5% and only reduce your ABV to 7% depending on attenuation of the yeast. The 5% is my preference but this is your beer.
2) Also plugging your numbers of the hop schedule into beersmith and making the ASSumption that you are using pellet hops with the default value of 11%AA, you will be producing a beer that is well outside the style standard for an American IPA at a total of 93.5 IBU's, not 68. If you moved your 20 minute addition to Whirlpool/steep that would drop your IBU's to 71.7 and be closer to the desired style plus add a great amount of aroma. This change will keep your beer in the desired style profile. I typically add my whirlpool hops once the wort has been cooled to 180*F and then allow the wort temperature to free-fall to 150*F before restarting my chiller.
3) 70% efficiency shouldn't be a bold assumption but will depend on several factors such as grain crush, water chemistry, etc.
4) and lastly, I would leave the beer on the yeast for 21 days at around 60*F to 62*F for a good clean-up and rack onto the planned dry hop addition for a 5 - 7 day period before packaging. This is again my preference but it works really well with my conditions and set-up.
Again, just my 2 cent. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

So here's my 2 cent.
1) With the grain bill you have for a 2.5 gallon batch that puts your caramel malts at 7.7%. I typically like my caramels at 5% or less which cuts down on the residual sweetness. 5 ounces will give you the 5% and only reduce your ABV to 7% depending on attenuation of the yeast. The 5% is my preference but this is your beer.

Duly noted, thanks for the input.

2) Also plugging your numbers of the hop schedule into beersmith and making the ASSumption that you are using pellet hops with the default value of 11%AA, you will be producing a beer that is well outside the style standard for an American IPA at a total of 93.5 IBU's, not 68. If you moved your 20 minute addition to Whirlpool/steep that would drop your IBU's to 71.7 and be closer to the desired style plus add a great amount of aroma. This change will keep your beer in the desired style profile. I typically add my whirlpool hops once the wort has been cooled to 180*F and then allow the wort temperature to free-fall to 150*F before restarting my chiller.

Actually, my hops are 10.5% Alpha, but that doesn't explain the huge difference. Your comment got me wondering if I had done something wrong, so I went back and double checked my numbers. I suppose the old adage, "you get what you pay for" rings true in this case. I formulated this recipe with the aid of Brewtoad (free). After double checking and verifying my numbers, I decided to plug the recipe into a few other free tools...my results ranged anywhere from 61 to 86 IBUs. :smack: Guess I need to pony up a few bucks to drop on a good piece of brewing software. Again, thanks for the feedback.

3) 70% efficiency shouldn't be a bold assumption but will depend on several factors such as grain crush, water chemistry, etc.
4) and lastly, I would leave the beer on the yeast for 21 days at around 60*F to 62*F for a good clean-up and rack onto the planned dry hop addition for a 5 - 7 day period before packaging. This is again my preference but it works really well with my conditions and set-up.
Again, just my 2 cent. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

As far as grain crush, my LHBS has a pretty good reputation so I'm not too concerned with that. My only concern is my procedure, this being my first attempt at an all-grain. I will certainly keep notes and document, document, document. Once I get it all sorted out, I will post results.

 

[masonsjax]

I thought this was going to be a thread about water testing.

Your planned process looks good. I would heat the strike water closer to 180 though and definitely measure the temp of the grain and use that with a strike water calculator to see exactly what temp to add the grain. With a 2.5 gallon batch, I don't know what to expect, so a calculator will help.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

I thought this was going to be a thread about water testing.

Your planned process looks good. I would heat the strike water closer to 180 though and definitely measure the temp of the grain and use that with a strike water calculator to see exactly what temp to add the grain. With a 2.5 gallon batch, I don't know what to expect, so a calculator will help.

You know, the bad part is that I thought that when I made the thread title too...LOL

I have been playing around with some strike calculators as well...hopefully they work out better than the recipe calculators that I have been using. :cross:

 

[PHDrunk]

Here's my thoughts:

(1) Have 3 gallons of water ready for sparging. Your system is uncalibrated so you may end up with less first runnings than anticipated. Add sparge water such that the sparge plus the first runnings equals your desired pre-boil volume.

(2) I think 70% is a little bold for the first time out. Too many variables. I would calculate beforehand your anticipated pre-boil SG and then take a sample. Cool it in your freezer (I assume you have a hydrometer, not a refractometer) and measure the gravity as the wort is approaching boil. You can calculate your efficiency here, and if you come up short, have some DME on hand to supplement. That way you don't have to adjust your hop schedule on the fly and you don't have a poorly balanced beer.

(3) Finally, I do 3.5 gallon batches in a 6 gallon carboy exclusively. I've never had an issue but I should note -- I leave it alone for a month and don't secondary to avoid headspace and contamination issues.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jbaysurfer]

i thought this was going to be a thread about water testing.

Your planned process looks good. I would heat the strike water closer to 180 though and definitely measure the temp of the grain and use that with a strike water calculator to see exactly what temp to add the grain. With a 2.5 gallon batch, i don't know what to expect, so a calculator will help.

lol...+1

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

Here's my thoughts:

(1) Have 3 gallons of water ready for sparging. Your system is uncalibrated so you may end up with less first runnings than anticipated. Add sparge water such that the sparge plus the first runnings equals your desired pre-boil volume.

Fair enough, I had not given any consideration to figuring my dead-space into my water calculations, but I do plan on a "dry run" to get all my numbers in order and I will most certainly have extra just in case. Thanks for bringing it up.

(2) I think 70% is a little bold for the first time out. Too many variables. I would calculate beforehand your anticipated pre-boil SG and then take a sample. Cool it in your freezer (I assume you have a hydrometer, not a refractometer) and measure the gravity as the wort is approaching boil. You can calculate your efficiency here, and if you come up short, have some DME on hand to supplement. That way you don't have to adjust your hop schedule on the fly and you don't have a poorly balanced beer.

I was nervous about banking on 70% as well, but hey...beginners luck, yeah? Seriously though, I do have DME on hand...so I will have it at the ready. Thanks again for the input.

(3) Finally, I do 3.5 gallon batches in a 6 gallon carboy exclusively. I've never had an issue but I should note -- I leave it alone for a month and don't secondary to avoid headspace and contamination issues.

Good luck!

I do not plan on a secondary for this brew. My dry hopping will be done in the primary, and I believe that I am leaning heavily to the carboy due to past experiences of Nottingham taking off like a beast and me coming home to krausen blowing out of the airlock and down the side of my bucket. I am afraid that the lack of headspace in the LBK on a 2.5 gallon batch would not allow me to avoid a mess.

 

[Gunfighter04]

Couple of things that have helped me, specifically in the area of hitting my mash temps.

Preheat the mash tun. It's one less item the water needs to "bring up to temp".
If your like me and have your grains in the fridge, or garage, bring them up to room temp a day before you brew.

I find doing these things allow me to discount swings in the outside air temp (if you brew outside), it makes my strike water calculations very consistent from batch to batch. I know I'm going to drop 10-12 degrees depending on how big the grain bill is. I usually shoot for the high side of the temp I'm mashing. Leave the lid off for a couple minutes to drop a degree if necessary. then close it up and let the magic happen.

 

[thinkinboutdrinkin]

Update:

Finally got around to brewing this past Saturday (5-10). Everything went fairly smooth I suppose. Strike water was heated to 175 and added to the tun. I allowed it to "coast" down to 164 before doughing in. Added 6lb MO and 4 oz Crystal 60 and stirred like crazy. Temp was 152.6 and I let it sit for an hour, stirring and checking the temp at 15 min and 30 min. After the hour was up, the temp was 151.2 (taking the lid off to stir and check temps didn't help...first all-grain jitters, ya know?). I cracked the valve ever so slowly on the tun and the sweet wort started trickling out. Opened it further...still just a trickle. Blew back thru the hose and tried again...trickle. Oh well, onward and upward, right? After FINALLY collecting my first runnings, I added 180* sparge water and stirred again like I was making money doing it. Cracked the valve and it was still just a trickle. I let it go as long as my impatience could handle and had enough. Grabbed my fine mesh strainer and put it over the kettle. Slowly tipped the tun over and drained out the remaining wort. Got the boil going and added .5 oz Falconer's @ 60, .75 oz @ 15 and .75 oz @ 5. Chilled in an ice bath until the temp was 63*. Added everything (yes, the break material too) to the fermenter and pitched my rehydrated Nottingham.

Now for a few questions...OG was 1.067, which is right inline with what I had anticipated @ 70% efficiency. Question number one is, do you think that it would have been higher if the tun would have cooperated and I didn't drain the way I did? I think that my issue with slow flow from the tun valve is attributed to the fact that I am using a CPVC manifold with holes drilled in the bottom. It is an octagonal design that I got here... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/efficient-octagonal-cpvc-manifold-rubbermaids-268491/ and I have a single row of 8 holes, not slits...holes (5/64"?) in each of the 6 outer sections. Question number two...do I need to add more holes to aid in the draining? It ran perfect on my test run with nothing but water in it, but would the grain hamper the flow enough that it would only come out at a slow trickle?

Regardless, fermentation took off the next day and it churned like mad until yesterday. Today's visual inspection revealed that things are starting to drop out and it is clearing up. I am going to let it ride until the 31st and bottle once I verify it's done.

I appreciate everyone's input and assistance in making sure that my first all-grain experience was a fairly smooth one. You guys (and gals) are awesome I am eagerly anticipating my first taste of this stuff too...they hydro sample was amazing. :rockin: