Simple question.. What temp do commerical breweries whirlpool at for hop steeping?

[Colbizle]

I'm curious, if anyone would happen to know, what temps do commercial breweries whirpool at (the smaller guys not the big guys)? Are they able to whirlpool/chill down to a certain temp like 175F then add their hops like homebrewers do for the aroma steep or because of their such large systems can they only whirlpool at 195F, hop steep there, then hit their heat exchanger.

Odd question, I know, but I like to mimic some processes of pro-brewing at a the homebrew scale and recipe formulation for hop schedules, and IBU Contributions I'm trying to nail down. But it seems like hop steeping at 175F maybe only practical at the homebrew scale.

 

[PLOVE]

So, I was at a brewery in SD a few years back talking with the headbrewer. As it turned out, for their 30bbl system it takes several hours to pump the beer through the heat exchanger and into the fermenter. To account for this, they were actually hitting boiling temps, adding hops, and going immediately to whirpool figuring hops would be "whirlpooling" for several hours before the entire batch was cooled and in the fermenter. My point is that they weren't really doing boil additions, but rather all of their hop additions were isomerizing at temps below boiling.

As homebrewers doing small 5-10 gallon batches it's actually a luxury to cool a whole batch in 5 min. There's no way most big breweries can do this. So, in some way whirlpooling at the homebrew level is exactly what the big boys are forced to do. I'm using the technique with lots of big beers now - boil for 20min, whirlpool for 40 with most of my hop additions. Makes for a smoother bitterness IMHO.

P

 

[outside92129]

I did a brewday at a commercial/craft brewery and they added the last hops at flameout/start of whirlpool. Because of where the controls and valves are-

1. they turn the gas off (from the control panel at the top of the stack)
2. add the hops, since they're standing next to the boil kettle
3. turn on whirlpool, valves and separate pump were at the bottom of the stack.

 

[outside92129]

PLOVE brings up a good point on the volume - i was working on a single digit barrel system and they did hop additions throughout, similar to homebrewers. I can see a 30bbl system being different for timing.

 

[Colbizle]

PLOVE brings up a good point on the volume - i was working on a single digit barrel system and they did hop additions throughout, similar to homebrewers. I can see a 30bbl system being different for timing.

Right, I'm more interested in whirlpool temps and IBU contributions at those temps. So lets say for example I a design a homebrew recipe where I have a single bittering addition, and then at the end of boil, I flameout and I throw half of my finishing hops in and whirlpool at 195F for 15-20 minutes. I'm going to get some significant IBU contribution there because of the near boiling temps, then I chill down to 175F and add the other half of the hops and steep again for about 35-40 minutes, there I will see hardly any noticeable IBU contributions.

Now if I scale that recipe to a commercial system were I can't chill down to 175F and I can only whirlpool at 195F then my IBU's are going to be way off and maybe even my flavor profile will be off..

Thoughts?

 

[Natdavis777]

Im interested. My last IPA was all late addition/Whirlpool hops and was the best IPA I had brewed. I plan to ask my buddy (whom is a professional brewer/owner) next week when I see his how he does his IPA (which has good reviews thus far, including myself) on his 30bbl system.

 

[Colbizle]

Im interested. My last IPA was all late addition/Whirlpool hops and was the best IPA I had brewed. I plan to ask my buddy (whom is a professional brewer/owner) next week when I see his how he does his IPA (which has good reviews thus far, including myself) on his 30bbl system.

Please let me know. It's an odd question for sure and probably better served on the probrewer.com forums.

Side note: on your last IPA Did you do flameout out and whirlpool only or did you do some late additions like 5 min? Just curious.

Cheers!

 

[Natdavis777]

Please let me know. It's an odd question for sure and probably better served on the probrewer.com forums.

Side note: on your last IPA Did you do flameout out and whirlpool only or did you do some late additions like 5 min? Just curious.

Cheers!

My Johnny Utah IPA Hop Sched


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
US Chinook 11.1 % 1.50 oz 28.8 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 19.1 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 6.0 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 16.2 Loose Pellet Hops 10 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 5.1 Loose Pellet Hops 10 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 12.8 Loose Pellet Hops 5 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 4.0 Loose Pellet Hops 5 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 3.00 oz 12.8 Loose Pellet Hops In Hop-Back
US Centennial 8.5 % 1.00 oz 4.1 Loose Pellet Hops In Hop-Back
US Centennial 8.5 % 7.00 oz 0.0 Loose Pellet Hops Dry-Hopped

 

[Colbizle]

My Johnny Utah IPA Hop Sched


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
US Chinook 11.1 % 1.50 oz 28.8 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 19.1 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 6.0 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 16.2 Loose Pellet Hops 10 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 5.1 Loose Pellet Hops 10 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 2.00 oz 12.8 Loose Pellet Hops 5 Min From End
US Chinook 11.1 % 0.50 oz 4.0 Loose Pellet Hops 5 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.8 % 3.00 oz 12.8 Loose Pellet Hops In Hop-Back
US Centennial 8.5 % 1.00 oz 4.1 Loose Pellet Hops In Hop-Back
US Centennial 8.5 % 7.00 oz 0.0 Loose Pellet Hops Dry-Hopped

Nice I like the schedule.

 

[100amps]

I am part owner of a craft brewery. Temperature doesn't change much during the whirlpool, maybe a couple degrees over 15 minutes.
Isomerization continues for all hop additions.

Isomerization dwindles as temp drops until it stops completely around 170-ish. That never happens on a big system since the temp. doesn't drop much.

Interestingly, the many different hop oils flash off at different temperatures, so you can play with different aromas by steeping freshly added hops at different temperatures during the chilling process. This really only works with an immersion chiller.

Here's what I was just playing with: After flameout, chill quickly to 160°F, steep 20 minutes. Chill to 120°F, add hops, steep 20 minutes. Chill to pitching temp and pitch.

Different oils are infused at each temperature range, and if you are below 170-ish, bitterness doesn't accumulate.