Session IPA recipe critique

[SattMephen00]

Hi, looking for some opinions on a hazy session IPA recipe I put together. Trying to get something close to Founders All Day Haze.

It’s a 4.5 gal batch because I’m fermenting in kegs.

Malt:

5lbs Pilsner
3lbs Vienna
1lb Golden Naked Oats

Hops:

.25oz Simcoe @60
.25oz Amarillo @30
.25oz Citra @30
.75oz Amarillo hop stand
.75oz Citra hop stand

Yeast:
A07 Flagship by Imperial

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RCope]

So I can help direct you..."Session Hazy". You will need to start with a traditional NEIPA grain bill, such as base malt with adjuncts: wheat malt, oat malt, chit malt. Oats and wheat are the most common. No crystal...Golden Naked Oats is a huskless crystal malt. Vienna not usually used. You could add a small amount for "character". A good grain bill for me would be 7lbs pilsner malt, 1.5lbs wheat malt, 1.5lbs oat malt, 4oz of acidulated (as necessary to get your mash pH to about 5.2), and 1 or 2 oz of caraaroma just for that orange color. Depending on your efficiency, that should get you around 5% abv.

You have chosen hops that will work well. A 60 minute addition for about 20 ibus is fine. Many are skipping that entirely and getting all their bitterness from late additions and/or whirlpool (or hop stand). With your hops I'd skip the 60 and add Simcoe at 20 to get all of your desired ibus (not many, maybe 20) Then I'd chill to below 170 and add the rest of your hotside additions for a 20 minute whirlpool. I'd use 1.5-2oz each of Citra and Amarillo. No ibus from that addition.

Yeast: Chico is not a traditional NEIPA yeast, think A24 Dryhop or A38 Juice if you want to stick with Imperial.

You didn't mention dry hops...it won't be "hazy" without them. For 4.5 gallons I'd add 6-8oz of dry hops. Citra and Amarillo play nice together, 3oz of each would be fine. Of course, you'd have to have a way to mitigate O2 exposure. If you are fermenting in a keg you could prepare a separate dry hop keg and pressure transfer into it after fermentation is complete. You'd have to purge the dry hop keg to eliminate O2. Several techniques for that...

And then, you have to be able to serve from that keg so a floating dip tube with a screen may be helpful.
If you would like some extensive reading, I encourage you to peruse the thread "Northeast" style IPA". Set aside a few days...

All that being said, the recipe you posted sounds like it might be good, in a traditional west coast ipa way (except for the golden naked oats, 5% Crystal 40 would be OK).Cheers! Rick

 

[SattMephen00]

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t necessarily care too much if it comes out hazy, I am just a huge fan of the example I had from Founders and I’d like to match that flavor profile. I wasn’t aware that dry hopping was the reason for the haze, I just assumed it was either wheat or oats. If I’m okay without the haze, do you think dry hopping is necessary? I’d like to avoid buying a half pound of hops for this recipe, but I will if that’s what it takes to get what I’m looking for. My end goal with this brew is to get something with a low ABV and some intense fruity hop aroma and flavor.

 

[AlexKay]

Have you made very hoppy beers before? How did they come out? Are you kegging or bottling? If kegging, are you spunding and transferring into a purged keg? Can you dry hop without oxygen exposure?

I’m not trying to gatekeep hazy here. But if you’re starting out or close to it, then to me it makes more sense to make a fantastic American Pale Ale then take a risk making a meh hazy. And you can definitely make a fantastic APA without dry hopping and without a highly meticulous process.

As far as the recipe goes (and looking at it as a pale ale), you can’t go wrong with good base malts. I’m a fan of Vienna in this kind of beer. And I’ll second @RCope with the small amount of medium crystal.

Do you like Simcoe? Lots of folks don’t.

 

[RCope]

The haze is a combination of dry hopping with the high protein adjuncts. You will definitely need to dry hop to get "intense fruity hop aroma and flavor". kinda what makes an IPA an IPA. NEIPA is one of the most difficult styles to brew well. It is also the most oxygen sensitive. If you don't have your technique and equipment dialed in you will be frustrated by the final product. Your recipe is for a pale ale, including the "no dry hop" part (but excluding the Golden Naked Oats).

 

[SattMephen00]

Have you made very hoppy beers before? How did they come out? Are you kegging or bottling? If kegging, are you spunding and transferring into a purged keg? Can you dry hop without oxygen exposure?

I’m not trying to gatekeep hazy here. But if you’re starting out or close to it, then to me it makes more sense to make a fantastic American Pale Ale then take a risk making a meh hazy. And you can definitely make a fantastic APA without dry hopping and without a highly meticulous process.

As far as the recipe goes (and looking at it as a pale ale), you can’t go wrong with good base malts. I’m a fan of Vienna in this kind of beer. And I’ll second @RCope with the small amount of medium crystal.

Do you like Simcoe? Lots of folks don’t.

Nope, this’ll be my first go at something this hoppy. I’ll be fermenting in a keg with a blowoff and transferring to a second keg for serving.

And I have no qualms with just making a pale ale, I don’t have any strong feelings about hazys, I’ve just enjoyed the few examples I’ve had.

I think I’ll hold off on the hazy side of things and try to ease into these hoppy beers. I wasn’t aware neipas were so difficult. I appreciate the heads up!

 

[SattMephen00]

The haze is a combination of dry hopping with the high protein adjuncts. You will definitely need to dry hop to get "intense fruity hop aroma and flavor". kinda what makes an IPA an IPA. NEIPA is one of the most difficult styles to brew well. It is also the most oxygen sensitive. If you don't have your technique and equipment dialed in you will be frustrated by the final product. Your recipe is for a pale ale, including the "no dry hop" part (but excluding the Golden Naked Oats).

Okay, I’ll drop the Naked Oats, thank you for the advice!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am not sure what the difference is between a "Hazy Session IPA" and a "Hazy Pale Ale", but this MoreBeer look reasonably close to what I would expect for the general style. You can click through to the Recipe Sheet to see the recipe details:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/school-kicks-hazy-pale-ale-grain-beer-brewing-kit-5-gallons.html

The grail bill is 7 lb 2-Row, 2 lbs Flaked Oats, 2 lbs Flaked Wheat. There is 7 oz total hops of a mix of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Mosaic. The yeast selections are the common Hazy ones (Verdant, London Ale III, etc.). Lots of the things suggested by @RCope. There are plenty of tweaks you could make (some Munich for color, less flaked grains, more or different hops, etc.).

Good luck! I know that for some, making a recipe from scratch is important. I tend to start by gathering ideas from a few solid recipes into what I want (or to match what ingredients I have). If I find a recipe that looks good, I might brew it as written, then plan to tweak in follow-up batches as needed.

 

[rodwha]

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t necessarily care too much if it comes out hazy, I am just a huge fan of the example I had from Founders and I’d like to match that flavor profile. I wasn’t aware that dry hopping was the reason for the haze, I just assumed it was either wheat or oats. If I’m okay without the haze, do you think dry hopping is necessary? I’d like to avoid buying a half pound of hops for this recipe, but I will if that’s what it takes to get what I’m looking for. My end goal with this brew is to get something with a low ABV and some intense fruity hop aroma and flavor.

I use 1/2 lb of hops in my 2.5 gal IPAs altogether. They require lots of hops.

 

[SattMephen00]

I am not sure what the difference is between a "Hazy Session IPA" and a "Hazy Pale Ale", but this MoreBeer look reasonably close to what I would expect for the general style. You can click through to the Recipe Sheet to see the recipe details:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/school-kicks-hazy-pale-ale-grain-beer-brewing-kit-5-gallons.html

The grail bill is 7 lb 2-Row, 2 lbs Flaked Oats, 2 lbs Flaked Wheat. There is 7 oz total hops of a mix of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Mosaic. The yeast selections are the common Hazy ones (Verdant, London Ale III, etc.). Lots of the things suggested by @RCope. There are plenty of tweaks you could make (some Munich for color, less flaked grains, more or different hops, etc.).

Good luck! I know that for some, making a recipe from scratch is important. I tend to start by gathering ideas from a few solid recipes into what I want (or to match what ingredients I have). If I find a recipe that looks good, I might brew it as written, then plan to tweak in follow-up batches as needed.

I’ve heard some conflicting opinions on the difference, and personally it feels like we’re splitting hairs at a point, but for me I would assume a pale ale is going to be more balanced and have more malt flavor, while an IPA would be very hip forward. But again, splitting hairs.

And I’ll have to give that recipe a try, im really starting to appreciate these hoppier styles! I do like the idea of making a recipe from scratch, but I’ve used some recipes I’ve found online for the majority of my past batches and I really wanted to try and branch out this time. Thanks for the reply!

 

[SattMephen00]

I use 1/2 lb of hops in my 2.5 gal IPAs altogether. They require lots of hops.

Coming from brewing some more subtle styles, it blows my mind that you can throw a half pound into such a small volume and have something come out drinkable. I may have to get over that though, I’ve been loving IPAs lately and will definitely start getting more into hoppier styles.

 

[mashdar]

I am not sure what the difference is between a "Hazy Session IPA" and a "Hazy Pale Ale"

Eleven out of ten MBAs agree, printing "IPA" on the can sells more fizzy drinks.

 

[HM-2]

A few questions from my side:

• What's your OG/FG and/or ABV target?
• What's your target IBU?

If you're targeting a hazy pale, I would expect

a) significantly less hops pre-whirlpool
b) a bigger whirlpool
c) some kind of dry hop

As mentioned above, the hopping regiment here is more "traditional pale ale" than "hazy".

 

[refect]

I personally like a bit of golden naked oats in my hazys. I keep it low though. Maybe like 5-6% of the grist. I'll use around 10% flaked Oats in junction with the golden naked oats. Get rid of the Vienna and just do all pilsner. The focus is the hops. Pilsner will keep it light and let those hops shine. Add some malted wheat in there too. I'd do something like....

70% Pilsner
15% White wheat
5% Golden Naked Oats
10% Flaked Oats

It would be safe insurance to add some rice hulls to the mash as well due to all the oats and wheat in there. If you're using imperial yeast then I'd use A38 Juice instead. That yeast makes some great hazys. Target a low OG to keep you're abv in the 4% range. When I think of a session, I think of something lower than 5% abv.

Don't waste the simcoe on a 60 min addition. Use Magnum or warrior instead. I personally like Magnum and use it in a lot of my beers due to its clean/smooth bitterness. Warrior has a bit more edge imo, but I like using either depending on what I'm going for. Target 15-20 IBUs for your 60 min addition and move all other hops to your whirlpool/hopstand addition.

You're going to want to do some hefty dry hopping with this style. I'd start with about 2 oz each of Simcoe, Citra, and Amarillo. You could probbaly go higher to like 3 oz of each in the dry hop, but you don't want to go too overboard with dry hopping a session. I feel it can become unbalanced and harsh without the malt/abv to back it up. I regularly add 12-16 oz in the dry hop for my hazys, but that's for a 7% and higher beer. The big thing here is to keep oxygen out when adding dry hops. I'm not sure on your current setup, but there are multiple tricks you can do depending on what you have.

Keep oxygen out when bottling/kegging as well. Oxygen will kill hazys fast. Make sure everything is well purged with co2 before transferring and conduct a closed transfer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Nope, this’ll be my first go at something this hoppy. I’ll be fermenting in a keg with a blowoff and transferring to a second keg for serving.

And I have no qualms with just making a pale ale, I don’t have any strong feelings about hazys, I’ve just enjoyed the few examples I’ve had.

I think I’ll hold off on the hazy side of things and try to ease into these hoppy beers. I wasn’t aware neipas were so difficult. I appreciate the heads up!

Since you have plenty of recipe advice to mull over I'll offer a few thoughts on your process. You mention you'll be fermenting in a keg and transferring to a second keg. If you aren't already doing so I'd highly recommend connecting the second keg to the first, and then a blowoff (or a spunding device), following the second keg. This allows you to use the CO2 produced during fermentation to purge the serving keg of oxygen. You may already be doing this, but it wasn't clear to me. I've done this and it works ok, as long as you're able to contain the krausen to your fermenting keg. A few drops of Fermcap helps. I've also used the second keg as a dry hop keg with a floating dip tube and served from there. And finally I've even added a third keg to this process and transferred from the dry hop keg to a serving keg to get the beer off the hops. Active fermentation will purge the 2 kegs. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.