Re-pitching yeast???

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ncoutroulis

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Hi,

Just brewed my first batch yesterday and have this question...

The Wyeast smack pack I used, didn't seem to inflate much after smacking it. The date was within the recommended time frame, so i'm just wondering if the yeast is "good".

I've pitched this yeast, and don't really see signs that its working, so wondering if its OK to get another pack and add it today?

any help would be great!

thanks
 
Don't begin to worry until at least 72 hours has gone by without signs of fermentation. Lag time can be short or long. Pitching the yeast into very cool wort will increase lag time. This is not a bad thing. Much better than pitching into a wort that is to warm and having a short lag time.

You are waiting for CO2 to begin bubbling through the air lock and you are brewing in a bucket? Often with buckets, the lid does not seal well. This is not a problem, but until fermentation is very active, the CO2 will probably escape around the rim.

At 72 hours, and the wort has been in the low 60° range for at least 24 hours, lift the lid and look for signs of krausen formation. Sanitize around the lid first.

Unless your beer is very low OG, around 1.042, a yeast starter is very likely needed with liquid yeast to prevent severe under pitching. I am not saying that you did under pitch, but to be aware of the number of yeast cells needed for a brew, of a certain OG, will prevent potential brewing problems.
 
You should be fine. Some yeasts are slower to start than others. For your next batch, consider a yeast starter to bring your cell count up. Not that it is relevant to your slow start but it is usually advisable to pitch more than one pack or make a starter. You could have pitched 3 packs and still be waiting for signs of fermentation. Check out this site for a pitch rate calculator:
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

That being said, it would not hurt anything to toss in another pack of yeast at this point if you have it on hand. But you may not even need it. If you're brewing a low abv brew, mrmalty might tell you you're good with one pack. Remember, pitching more would just be to get a higher cell count. Your slow start is nothing to be concerned about.

BTW, after you visit that site, you will likely find yourself back on this site the rest of the day researching things like stir plates and aeration; maybe even temperature control. Don't waste your energy worrying about whether or not your first batch will be perfect. You will have beer and you can apply the other things you learn as you go along.

Welcome to the forum and to a great hobby! :mug:
 
Same thing happened to me on my very first brew. I was told by my home local homebrew store to repitch and next time give up to 6hrs to let the pack firm up more. My pack was 2 months from expiration and they gave me a replacement free
 
flars said:
Don't begin to worry until at least 72 hours has gone by without signs of fermentation. Lag time can be short or long. Pitching the yeast into very cool wort will increase lag time. This is not a bad thing. Much better than pitching into a wort that is to warm and having a short lag time.

You are waiting for CO2 to begin bubbling through the air lock and you are brewing in a bucket? Often with buckets, the lid does not seal well. This is not a problem, but until fermentation is very active, the CO2 will probably escape around the rim.

At 72 hours, and the wort has been in the low 60° range for at least 24 hours, lift the lid and look for signs of krausen formation. Sanitize around the lid first.

Unless your beer is very low OG, around 1.042, a yeast starter is very likely needed with liquid yeast to prevent severe under pitching. I am not saying that you did under pitch, but to be aware of the number of yeast cells needed for a brew, of a certain OG, will prevent potential brewing problems.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone.

I'm fermenting in a glass carboy...

what temperature should the fermenting take place? i had it in a dark closet over night, but it may be a bit too cold. What's the idea place and temperature to keep this carboy?

Thanks
 
The heat created during fermentation will raise the temps up to ~8 degrees so your ambient temp needs to be cooler than your desired fermentation temp. After the first 3-5 days, activity will slow and less heat will be created.

I have a beer going with 1214 right now. If you do some digging on here, people are reporting good results with fermenting this yeast in the mid-60's (a little lower than Wyeasts recommendation). So, if you have a room somewhere around the upper 50's, put it there. As activity slows down you'll want to move it to a warmer spot. Yeast prefer for the temperature to be raised towards the tail end of fermentation to get the job done.

:off: Be careful when moving the carboy around. There have been some nasty accidents with those reported on this site. I'm not saying don't use it. Just be aware of the potential danger and be careful with it.
 
TimmyWit said:
The heat created during fermentation will raise the temps up to ~8 degrees so your ambient temp needs to be cooler than your desired fermentation temp. After the first 3-5 days, activity will slow and less heat will be created.

I have a beer going with 1214 right now. If you do some digging on here, people are reporting good results with fermenting this yeast in the mid-60's (a little lower than Wyeasts recommendation). So, if you have a room somewhere around the upper 50's, put it there. As activity slows down you'll want to move it to a warmer spot. Yeast prefer for the temperature to be raised towards the tail end of fermentation to get the job done.

:off: Be careful when moving the carboy around. There have been some nasty accidents with those reported on this site. I'm not saying don't use it. Just be aware of the potential danger and be careful with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I'm not seeing any activity that looks like fermentation. No bubbles, no foam, the airlock isn't really changing water levels. Its now been 24 hrs. how soon should I see something, and what will i see?

thanks
 
You are good! 1214 is notorious for being a slow starter. Wyeast even mentions it on their website:

" A widely used and alcohol tolerant Abbey yeast that is suitable for a variety of Belgian style ales. This strain produces a nice ester profile as well as slightly spicy alcohol notes. It can be slow to start; however, it attenuates well. "

https://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=127

RDWHAHB :mug:
 
also how well did you aerate?
gonna +1 to the rest. just relax. if it's possible, i would recommend giving that thing a good shake. but being so heavy, that may not be possible to do safely.
invest in a thermometer so you don't have to guess what your ambient temps are. i keep my bedroom cool anyways, so it's usually about 17C (63F) for the first part of fermentation, usually actually about 9-10 days. At that point I usually do any dry hopping, and bring it into the living room which is 21C (70F) for 5-7 days.
Since you have no homebrew, go to the store and buy some beer, and then sit down and relax and work on any of your other hobbies. if you're into football, a great game going on now!
 
joshesmusica said:
also how well did you aerate?
gonna +1 to the rest. just relax. if it's possible, i would recommend giving that thing a good shake. but being so heavy, that may not be possible to do safely.
invest in a thermometer so you don't have to guess what your ambient temps are. i keep my bedroom cool anyways, so it's usually about 17C (63F) for the first part of fermentation, usually actually about 9-10 days. At that point I usually do any dry hopping, and bring it into the living room which is 21C (70F) for 5-7 days.
Since you have no homebrew, go to the store and buy some beer, and then sit down and relax and work on any of your other hobbies. if you're into football, a great game going on now!
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've noticed this seems to be a popular topic on here, so sorry for starting this new thread.

It will be 48 hrs this afternoon, and still no change. On the bottom of the carboy, is a lighter brown/tan ring that has been sitting there. the rest of the wort is the darker brown. I've not shaken the carboy much lately, just letting it sit in the corner.

When should I get worried and do something?

thanks
 
dude no worries about starting a thread. i think that everyone has experienced those freakout moments when we first started, so everyone on here are really great to reassure the new ones that you don't want to panic.
but by now you should at least start to see some kind of foam (krausen) starting to form, even if only a little bit. you said the pack did actually inflate some? how long did you pop it before you pitched it?
 
joshesmusica said:
dude no worries about starting a thread. i think that everyone has experienced those freakout moments when we first started, so everyone on here are really great to reassure the new ones that you don't want to panic.
but by now you should at least start to see some kind of foam (krausen) starting to form, even if only a little bit. you said the pack did actually inflate some? how long did you pop it before you pitched it?
Click to expand...

its been 48 hrs.
when i smacked the pack, it was probably 1.5 hrs until i pitched it. It inflated a little, but not very much.

I don't see any foam on top at all. there is some lighter colored (tan) stuff towards the bottom, but the rest of the carboy is darker colored. doesn't seem like there is any activity going on at all. what do i do now???

thanks
 
I would try to GENTLY rock the carboy around a bit to stir up the stuff (most likely yeast) on the bottom and it get moving a little throughout the wort. Also, is the temperature of your room at least 66 degrees? If you still don't see ANYTHING - (have you looked closely at the carboy with a flashlight - you should see stuff "swimming" around in there" then it might be time to pitch more yeast. What temperature was the wort when you pitched your yeast?
 
eadavis80 said:
I would try to GENTLY rock the carboy around a bit to stir up the stuff (most likely yeast) on the bottom and it get moving a little throughout the wort. Also, is the temperature of your room at least 66 degrees? If you still don't see ANYTHING - (have you looked closely at the carboy with a flashlight - you should see stuff "swimming" around in there" then it might be time to pitch more yeast. What temperature was the wort when you pitched your yeast?
Click to expand...

The wort temp was about 68, within the redo from Wyeast.
The room temp is currently low 70's. I'll look with a flashlight and see if anything is swimming around in there

thanks
 
If it was 1.060 and is now 1.049 then that means the yeast are having a good time and fermenting those sugars... if I understand your post correctly.
 
eadavis80 said:
If it was 1.060 and is now 1.049 then that means the yeast are having a good time and fermenting those sugars... if I understand your post correctly.
Click to expand...

Not sure what it is now.
it was 1.060 when i pitched it, but it was recommended to be 1.049. I was a bit high. not sure if that makes a difference.
 
After 3 days, check your OG again. If its lower than the starting OG, then the yeast is fermenting your beer.
 
ok so by now it's been about 3 days? if still no activity, i think it's time to pitch more yeast. a very long lag time can cause some off flavors. i would personally recommend a dry yeast. pour it in 80 degree water at about 10 ml per gram. let it sit in that water for about 15-20 mins stirring it around every couple of mins. then pour it in.
even if you're getting some activity, most of that light brown stuff on the bottom of your fermenter are dead yeast cells. which means you probably way under-pitched. which means you're going to have very stressed out yeast, and stressed yeast creates off-flavors.

maybe if you even go back to the lhbs and tell them what's happened, they will give you some new yeast. if they will, then a new smack pack of the same strain would be best. i only recommended the dry yeast because it's cheaper. hell if your beer ends up being a crappy beer, and you have the guts, i would take the crappy beer to the lhbs and tell them they owe you for the whole thing for selling you yeast that wasn't viable enough.

if you go with the smack pack, i would wait at least 3 hours before pitching it. and in the future, i would also wait at least 3 hours.
 
joshesmusica said:
ok so by now it's been about 3 days? if still no activity, i think it's time to pitch more yeast. a very long lag time can cause some off flavors. i would personally recommend a dry yeast. pour it in 80 degree water at about 10 ml per gram. let it sit in that water for about 15-20 mins stirring it around every couple of mins. then pour it in.
even if you're getting some activity, most of that light brown stuff on the bottom of your fermenter are dead yeast cells. which means you probably way under-pitched. which means you're going to have very stressed out yeast, and stressed yeast creates off-flavors.

maybe if you even go back to the lhbs and tell them what's happened, they will give you some new yeast. if they will, then a new smack pack of the same strain would be best. i only recommended the dry yeast because it's cheaper. hell if your beer ends up being a crappy beer, and you have the guts, i would take the crappy beer to the lhbs and tell them they owe you for the whole thing for selling you yeast that wasn't viable enough.

if you go with the smack pack, i would wait at least 3 hours before pitching it. and in the future, i would also wait at least 3 hours.
Click to expand...

Thanks. when i called the place that sold me the kit ( a very reputable place), and I told them that i wasn't going to be able to wait the suggested 3 hrs to pitch, they told me not to worry. :)

This afternoon, it will be 3 days, and the only activity i see, are the so-called dead cells that are on the bottom. No foam, nothing but dark liquid that takes up most of the carboy. If i do re-pitch, can i do so tonight, with the same Wyeast that was suggested?

Thanks
 
there are probably some who would suggest for you to not repitch. but like i said, for how many dead yeast cells there must be in there (or at least not viable cells) then you way underpitched which would stress the hell out of those yeast. so i would suggest doing it today. if you really wanted to wait until the 72 hour mark exactly you could. but honestly if you read from people taking 3-4 days of lag time, their beers had some off flavors. unless of course that's an off flavor you're wanting. then go ahead and wait another day or two to see what happens.
i would suggest the same yeast strain if you can. but this time go ahead and wait the full three hours after smacking.
 
I would take the airlock and bung off, shake the heck out of it and repitch some yeast. Could be that there wasn't enough oxygen in the wort when you pitched, and now the yeast have just been chilling in there waiting for some oxygen.

This happened to me a couple months ago, took the bung off and shook it pretty hard, then the yeast took off within about 6 hours.
 
halcyondays said:
I would take the airlock and bung off, shake the heck out of it and repitch some yeast. Could be that there wasn't enough oxygen in the wort when you pitched, and now the yeast have just been chilling in there waiting for some oxygen.

This happened to me a couple months ago, took the bung off and shook it pretty hard, then the yeast took off within about 6 hours.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
If i do that (take the airlock and bung off), don't i risk contaminating the wort?
its in the carboy, so would i just shake it around, with the bung off? then recap it?

going to try to repitch tonight, with the same strand.

thanks
 
ncoutroulis said:
Thanks.
If i do that (take the airlock and bung off), don't i risk contaminating the wort?
its in the carboy, so would i just shake it around, with the bung off? then recap it?

going to try to repitch tonight, with the same strand.

thanks
Click to expand...

Remove the air lock and put a solid bung on the carboy to aerate.

What was the production date of the yeast? It does seem like an under pitch of viable yeast cells if the original gravity was 1.060.
 
flars said:
Remove the air lock and put a solid bung on the carboy to aerate.

What was the production date of the yeast? It does seem like an under pitch of viable yeast cells if the original gravity was 1.060.
Click to expand...

I think the production date was Nov 2014.
when you say "under pitched", is that my fault? or the fault of the yeast not working?

I'm pretty sure I didn't add enough water back in, after the initial boil, and that's why the OG was higher than the suggested target of 1.049. My fault, right?

thx
 
Northern Brewer says WYeast Smack Packs or White Labs yeast vials should be fine for a 5-gallon batch of up to 1.060. However, pitching a starter never hurts for liquid yeast. The amount of cells in a smack pack is 100 billion, but during shipping/time some of those cells will die prior to your pitching. I've made good beers without a starter, but I always make one now. If the target OG was only 1.049 I doubt you really needed one, if the yeast was still fairly new. Good luck on your yeast. It can cause concerns until you see signs of fermentation.
 
eadavis80 said:
Northern Brewer says WYeast Smack Packs or White Labs yeast vials should be fine for a 5-gallon batch of up to 1.060. However, pitching a starter never hurts for liquid yeast. The amount of cells in a smack pack is 100 billion, but during shipping/time some of those cells will die prior to your pitching. I've made good beers without a starter, but I always make one now. If the target OG was only 1.049 I doubt you really needed one, if the yeast was still fairly new. Good luck on your yeast. It can cause concerns until you see signs of fermentation.
Click to expand...

Can't get my hands on the same yeast, but my local guy suggested S33 dry yeast, from Fermentus. Said to just re-hydrate it, and then re-pitch.

any thoughts on this?

thanks
 
Wait 72 hrs from pitching, then start worrying.

Is a krausen forming? Can you see bubbles rising? Yeast churning? Anything going on?
 
Given all that's been discussed so far he's already answered all those questions.

Go ahead and pitch that dry yeast going off the instructions I gave earlier about rehydrating.
 
joshesmusica said:
Given all that's been discussed so far he's already answered all those questions.

Go ahead and pitch that dry yeast going off the instructions I gave earlier about rehydrating.
Click to expand...

Thanks. question on re-hydration. Do i need to boil water, so it's sterilized?

Then let it cool to 80, and put the yeast in, etc?

thanks
 
joshesmusica said:
Given all that's been discussed so far he's already answered all those questions.

Go ahead and pitch that dry yeast going off the instructions I gave earlier about rehydrating.
Click to expand...

Meh... no one said anything about his wort not being properly mixed with his top off water which led him to believe that his OG was 1.060, which it wasn't, unless his volume is less than 5 gal or he added more fermentables.

Never hurts to double check.

Repitch if you want OP, sounds like nothing's happening.
 
Psylocide said:
Meh... no one said anything about his wort not being properly mixed with his top off water which led him to believe that his OG was 1.060, which it wasn't, unless his volume is less than 5 gal or he added more fermentables.

Never hurts to double check.

Repitch if you want OP, sounds like nothing's happening.
Click to expand...

Im going to re-pitch with the dry yeast.

After that, should I swirl the carboy around?

as for the OG being 1.60 (higher than it should be), that's probably because i had less than 5 gals in there, right? i.e not enough water?
 
He did in fact mention it.
If the instructions were for 5 gallons and you were under that, that's your culprit for the higher OG.
The reason we are saying you under pitched is on the assumption that the yeast pack was bad for some reason. Apparently it happens sometimes, as wyeast even has answered what to do if that happens.
After pitching the new yeast shake it up like the other guys said. Then make sure you update us tomorrow on the status.
 
ncoutroulis said:
Im going to re-pitch with the dry yeast.

After that, should I swirl the carboy around?

as for the OG being 1.60 (higher than it should be), that's probably because i had less than 5 gals in there, right? i.e not enough water?
Click to expand...

Most likely not. You did a partial boil and topped off to 5 with water right?

If so, your wort from the partial boil and top-off water were most likely not mixed well and you got a "concentrated reading" or more wort than water.

You know what I'm saying? It's a non-issue, but will lead to funky readings either direction.

No need to swirl if you are repitching, just sprinkle on top.
 

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