Pumpkin - To Mash or to Boil

[shamilton2]

I have to stir this brewing community with this questions.

Brewing an all-grain, imperial pumpkin ale here in the coming weeks (so it has plenty of time to age before Thanksgiving).

The real question is this -

When using REAL pumpkin - you know, the ones that grow in the ground - after roasting it with all of the amazing and wonderful spices and sugars - do you as a home-brewer add it to:

1) The mash

or

2) The boil

I shall reference this article for those of you who pick one - what are your thoughts? https://beerandbrewing.com/brewing-the-perfect-pumpkin-ale/

 

[jmartie13]

I brew a pumpkin ale every year for fall. I'm actually planning on brewing it next week. What I do is very similar to the method in the article you mentioned. I've used pie pumpkin, or butternut squash. I split in half, roast with maple syrup, scoop out the flesh, put in a muslin bag for the duration of the boil.

 

[dmtaylor]

It has to be mashed. Otherwise you're just making starch soup.

 

[z-bob]

You'll get some sugar from it just from roasting and boiling, but it really ought to be mashed with some high-diastatic malt (like plain 2-row or 6-row), unless you want starchy beer.

Edit: I just read the linked article, and he might be right but I'm skeptical.

 

[5mooth0perator]

Don't mash it, just add it to the mash in chunks.

 

[jmartie13]

If you roast the pumpkin first, say 375F for 45min-1hr, then add it to the beginning of the boil and let it cook with the beer for another hour.... what could you possibly be benefiting from adding pumpkin to a 152F mash for an hour? Is there some kind of interaction with the grains in the mash I haven't heard about?

 

[Lefou]

It has to be mashed. Otherwise you're just making starch soup.

+1 FTW

Puree, cook, and then mash. Fine dicing would work too, but wouldn't you want to maximize as much pumpkin mass as possible to enzymatic action?
I would, and to double-down, I might add extra amylase to the mash just for fun as insurance - but I do take DP (diastatic power) of my grist into consideration, so that might be a bit of overkill.

It's much like a decoction step where you want to break down unmodified starches. Nowadays, with highly modified malts, decoction can be old hat. Decoction has its place, but a single infusion can work just as well. Raw, uncooked pumpkin has unmodified starch and proteins requiring cooking down. It shouldn't go in a kettle or the primary just because of the potential mess, but that's my opinion.

 

[GoeHaarden]

If you're going to put the pumpkin in your mash, I suggest using a lot of rice hulls as well. It'll lock up your mash pretty quick, or at least it has been in my experience...

 

[applescrap]

I researched the hell out of pumpkin beer, and have brewed plenty of them. I put, as recommended by that article and other data points I can't site, in the boil. Then I put it in my fermenter. And basically try to keep the pumpkin in contact with the wort as long as I can. Brulosophy did an experiment and found that really only people can taste the spices. Pumpkin like this has very little flavor. I also very very lightly spice mine because I want a beer I can drink two of in a row. You have to decide if you want a beer that you drink one of and go this is so good, lots of pumpkin spice, but don't give me another. Or if you want a lightly spiced fall beer that you can sit down and drink a few of. Don't be so quick on the high horse about using real pumpkin. All my research said they were very similar results. If I'm correct if you are looking for a really squashy flavor then use butternut squash. Just my two cents

Edit...that recipe calls for nearly two tablespoons of cinnamon. Yes you will get a very spiced beer if you do that, and that is why pumpkin beer has such a bad name. My recipe and I double-checked my recipe calls for a 1/2 tsp of all spice, nutmeg and cinnamon. That recipe calls for 5 full tsp of cinnamon alone!

 

[z-bob]

How about add roasted pumpkin to the boil, then add amylase enzyme to the secondary fermenter to clean up any leftover starch?

 

[applescrap]

How about add roasted pumpkin to the boil, then add amylase enzyme to the secondary fermenter to clean up any leftover starch?

I don't think starch is an issue from my experience. And I use a massive amount of pumpkin. It all ends up in trub. Have you experienced a starch issue?

 

[jwelch1103]

I roast the deseeded pumpkin and after removing the flesh from the skin put the flesh into the mash. Each method has its proponents and detractors.
There's more than one way to skin a cat(fish) and more than one way to make pumpkin beer.

 

[z-bob]

I don't think starch is an issue from my experience. And I use a massive amount of pumpkin. It all ends up in trub. Have you experienced a starch issue?

Never tried it; I don't like pumpkin beers. I just like to argue

 

[jmartie13]

Haha, for the record, I'm not a huge fan either, I'll drink em', but I'd rather have something else. The wife really looks forward to the pumpkin beer in October, so I don't like to let her down.

I've done the roast to boil method the last 5 years, and if that's the wrong way I don't want to be right! But, I've been thinking of brewing the same beer without the pumpkin and putting them side by side...I'm curious if people could tell them apart.

 

[Lefou]

never tried it; i don't like pumpkin beers. I just like to argue

lmao

Remind me to ask opinions later when adding beets and sweet potatoes to some planned brews. The varied opinions will be just as much fun as brewing the beers.

 

[MHBT]

Mash

 

[jmartie13]

Mash

Wow, with that logic I don't know how I could possibly believe otherwise.....

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

I did a little half and half. I mashed some of the pumpkin. But in reality you get no pumpkin character from this. Just the sugars/some body.
But I also used 2 cans of pumpkin pie filling at the end of the boil (5 mins).

However the secret to the pie crust flavor is to add a small bit of vanilla to the end of the boil.

 

[kh54s10]

I did a little half and half. I mashed some of the pumpkin. But in reality you get no pumpkin character from this. Just the sugars/some body.
But I also used 2 cans of pumpkin pie filling at the end of the boil (5 mins).

However the secret to the pie crust flavor is to add a small bit of vanilla to the end of the boil.

That has not been my experience. I baked the pumpkin, scooped out the pulp, added it to the mash without spices. I definitely tasted pumpkin... I also did it with a spaghetti squash. Again good squash flavor. Subtle but definitely there.

 

[dmtaylor]

The best way to add pumpkin to your beer:

1) Remove guts from pumpkin
2) Slice into wedges
3) Roast in the oven until soft and slightly caramelized
4) Scoop roasted flesh from the rind with a spoon
5) Throw it into the trash
6) Add way too much cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, and/or clove
7) Brag about how wonderful your beer isn't.

 

[applescrap]

Any thoughts for op on aging? It was my experience that the beer didn't necessarily improve with a great deal of age. If you use a bunch of spice the spice will diminish and I could see being just right around Thanksgiving. Imo if you brew it now use more spice or wait maybe to spice it later!? Either way not sure this needs 4 months, imo.

@z-bob haha, killed it.