Possible stall in big RIS, how to proceed?

[olotti]

2 weeks ago brewed up my biggest version yet of my RIS recipe, OG came in at 1.132 for just over 5 gallons. Ive made this beer every year and use 007 with great results. Typically pitch in low 60's let it free rise for a couple days and as the temp falls and fermentation slows I move the carboy from my basement to my first floor coat closet where its steady 70 deg, from there I'll let the beer finish out and go through a D rest and condition up to 4 weeks then it goes into secondary for bba oak cubes. So today is two weeks from brew day and took a sample, FG is 1.152, way off from the 1.135 projected by beersmith, I ask this question because in the past this beer has hit FG by now. So how should I proceed, I have a couple options. 1)Let it sit and take a reading in another week and see if its moved if not I'll have to do something at that point. 2)Move the carboy up to my second floor in my bedroom closet where its even warmer since there's a vent in the closet and see if that doesn't speed things up or 3) Get some yeast 05 I assume, rehydrate and pitch it to hope it finishes out the beer. I don't want to bottom out the FG so IDK if pitching new yeast will do that or not and I pitched a 3 step starter into this beer so I'm pretty sure there was enough yeast as I used a yeast calculator to step the starter up, there was also some blowoff and while I didn't lose any volume I lost Krausen andyeast so maybe I lost to much yeast to effectively help the beer finish out once the primary fermentation was done. Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[shoreman]

Were mash temps out the ordinary? What did you mash at?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I'm assuming you meant to put the current gravity as 1.052? Warm it up and if you can, toss in some WLP540/WY1762. It's a non-phenolic yeast with excellent alcohol tolerance. Works beautifully in dark beers.

 

[olotti]

Were mash temps out the ordinary? What did you mash at?

Nope hit my desired mash temp of 154 deg and held it for 90 min.

 

[olotti]

I'm assuming you meant to put the current gravity as 1.052? Warm it up and if you can, toss in some WLP540/WY1762. It's a non-phenolic yeast with excellent alcohol tolerance. Works beautifully in dark beers.

Yea I meant current gravity is 1.152. Maybe I’ll take it upstairs and if that doesn’t make the gravity move I’ll have to pitch some yeast. If I buy either of those would u make a starter or just pitch it directly into the beer. Should I be worried of the gravity dropping below 1.135 by pitching fresh yeast? I’d like to keep the body on the thicker side it’s just that 1.152 is just to sweet but if it stayed at the current gravity it’d still be 10.7% I was just hoping to crack 13% this time.

 

[olotti]

No other thoughts here. Wealth of info and I’m looking for some.....

 

[Comfort_Zone]

No other thoughts here. Wealth of info and I’m looking for some.....

Do a starter if you end up pitching more yeast. What was your recipe, off hand? A finishing gravity that high doesn't strike me as particularly odd given the fact that as you get to higher and higher gravity things get a little wonky. Heck, bourbon County is a ~1.040 FG beer and Dark Lord can be double that. When making giant beers like this mash much lower like 148F.

 

[olotti]

Do a starter if you end up pitching more yeast. What was your recipe, off hand? A finishing gravity that high doesn't strike me as particularly odd given the fact that as you get to higher and higher gravity things get a little wonky. Heck, bourbon County is a ~1.040 FG beer and Dark Lord can be double that. When making giant beers like this mash much lower like 148F.

So the last version I made of this the OG was 1.124 and the only thing I did diff in this version was add an extra pound of dme so 3lbs in the old version vs 4lbs in the current version, mash temp was the same 154deg for both. Otherwise all the adjuncts, oats, barley, midnight wheat, choc malt etc were all the same. My base malt is 16lbs of Marris otter plus the 4lbs of dme. My guess is I may have lost yeast in the blowoff so when things calmed down there wasn't enough to finish it out but who knows.

 

[InspectorJon]

That might be just as low as it is going to go. See my communication with the J.C.Hill at Alvarado Street Brewery in the Monterey/Salinas California area.

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM Jon Gudnason wrote:
Hi, I’m sitting here at Pour Taproom in Santa Cruz amazed at this Nunca Muerto stout. I am a home brewer and would really like to take a swing at this. Can you share any guidance on this? OG & FG? Adjuncts? I saw this on your website regarding grains: “Malt: American 2-Row, Carafa III, Dark Crystal, Pale Chocolate, Drum Roasted Crystal, Flaked Barley”. Any hints at percentages? Mash temp. . .

I am sure you guys worked hard to perfect this and don’t expect you will give away the whole story. I have been thinking about doing a sweeter, spiced imperial stout for a while now and this one is a home run for me. Any advice or direction you can give will be appreciated. Thank you.

Jon Gudnason
----------------
Glad you liked it!

I'm on a plane right now and don't have access to the recipe, but if I recall, percentages were roughly 8% for roasted grains (carafa and pale chocolate) and about 4-5% each on dark crystal and drum roasted crystal. Flaked barley around 10%, rest 2-row. There was some dark candi sugar used as well - around 10% of the grist sugars.

OG was around 33ish (1.144), finished around 13 (1.053) or so. Boiled for 5-6 hrs to get it that high without adding DME or LME. We mashed low, around 145, to make sure our wort sugar composition was as simple as possible to get it to "dry" as far as it could go. With these stouts they can stall rather high and leave you with a beer that's unpalatable (but good barrel candidates).

Let me know if you have any other questions, good luck!

J.C. Hill
Director of Brewery Operations
Certified Cicerone™
Alvarado Street Brewery
www.alvaradostreetbrewery.com

 

[InspectorJon]

So I went for a imperialized version of Xocoveza mocha stout on New Years eave, OG 1.114. It stalled at 1.044. Over a period of a couple weeks I warmed and roused and finally repitched Safale s-33 but it would not move below 1.044. The last thing I tried was adding 3/4 tsp amylase enzyme to the 3.5 gallons of wort. Gravity dropped to 1.032 over the next couple weeks. I bottled it a few days ago and it is pretty amazing.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

As InspectorJon stated in their correspondence, mashing low is key in giant beers. You tend to run the risk of a premature shall if you're not careful. In the future you could use a kveik like Hornindal to do big beer really fast.

 

[olotti]

As InspectorJon stated in their correspondence, mashing low is key in giant beers. You tend to run the risk of a premature shall if you're not careful. In the future you could use a kveik like Hornindal to do big beer really fast.

So guess ya live and learn I figured 1lb of dme extra would not be a huge matter since the last beer was mashed at the same temp and finished in the 1.130's. I've never attempted a beer this big so coincidentally I figured I should mash higher to keep the body in it however I can totally see why it would stall out. The sample tasted pretty bcbs like and I figured a good treatment of bourbon oak cubes will cut the body and seeetness a bit. I was just hoping to get the abv up into the high 12's to low 13% but as it sits it's at 10.7% so not terrible.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

So guess ya live and learn I figured 1lb of dme extra would not be a huge matter since the last beer was mashed at the same temp and finished in the 1.130's. I've never attempted a beer this big so coincidentally I figured I should mash higher to keep the body in it however I can totally see why it would stall out. The sample tasted pretty bcbs like and I figured a good treatment of bourbon oak cubes will cut the body and seeetness a bit. I was just hoping to get the abv up into the high 12's to low 13% but as it sits it's at 10.7% so not terrible.

I struggled with big beers for the longest time. I ended up being inspired by this:
https://quaff.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HighGravityFermentation-1.ppt

This is a great resource for brewing high abv beers with success. I now use methods inspired by this. Adding dextrose toward the end of fermentation is always an option.

 

[olotti]

I struggled with big beers for the longest time. I ended up being inspired by this:
https://quaff.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/HighGravityFermentation-1.ppt

This is a great resource for brewing high abv beers with success. I now use methods inspired by this. Adding dextrose toward the end of fermentation is always an option.

If his beer stays at 1.052 I’m not terribly disappointed as it tasted like bourbon county just that thick viscous stout which I love and it’ll be great for sitting on bourbon soaked oak cubes for the next 6-9 months. Next year I’ll just mash a little lower but I still have to see where this ends up in the next couple weeks. Thanks for the advice and link I’m def gonna read it.

 

[olotti]

So I went for a imperialized version of Xocoveza mocha stout on New Years eave, OG 1.114. It stalled at 1.044. Over a period of a couple weeks I warmed and roused and finally repitched Safale s-33 but it would not move below 1.044. The last thing I tried was adding 3/4 tsp amylase enzyme to the 3.5 gallons of wort. Gravity dropped to 1.032 over the next couple weeks. I bottled it a few days ago and it is pretty amazing.

So if mine does not move with warming, rousing etc over he next two weeks how would I add the amylase enzyme and when do u know it’s finished out finally. Taking multiple readings over a span of weeks? The stout is good but I’d like to get it down a little more so it’s not as sweet, like I’d take it in the high 30’s low 40’s for fg.

 

[InspectorJon]

So if mine does not move with warming, rousing etc over he next two weeks how would I add the amylase enzyme and when do u know it’s finished out finally. Taking multiple readings over a span of weeks? The stout is good but I’d like to get it down a little more so it’s not as sweet, like I’d take it in the high 30’s low 40’s for fg.

I boiled a little water to sterilize it, let it cool, and dissolved the amylase powder in the water. I then poured it in the stout, swirled the carboy, and waited for the gravity to stabilize. I added the enzyme in the evening and the wort had a small krausen going the next morning. This finished off in about a week after dropping 12 points. Do a forum search for the term "Amylase stuck" and you will get a lot of information.