Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Do you have an electric car or plan to get one?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I plan to

  • Over my dead body

Results are only viewable after voting.
mashdar said:
Is there just a male plug? I assumed the bidi chargers must be hard wired or with the equivalent of a portable generator setup (with a receptacle on the unit for connection to inlet).

edit: I'm assuming you weren't looking at a suicide cord
Click to expand...
It would probably be a NEMA 14-30P 4 prong receptacle. The Level 2 charger would not be hard wired, so no suicide cord. Our RV is 30A standard which is a 3 prong twist lock plug in, but I carry a 4 prong to 3 prong 'dog bone' adapter (which also has surge protection, ground fault and reverse current cutout) for those rare occasions when I can only park at 50 amp RV places, so at home I'd use that adapter to plug in when not charging a car.
 
Brooothru said:
It would probably be a NEMA 14-30P 4 prong receptacle. The Level 2 charger would not be hard wired, so no suicide cord. Our RV is 30A standard which is a 3 prong twist lock plug in, but I carry a 4 prong to 3 prong 'dog bone' adapter (which also has surge protection, ground fault and reverse current cutout) for those rare occasions when I can only park at 50 amp RV places, so at home I'd use that adapter to plug in when not charging a car.
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm talking about powering the house from the vehicle. I think you're talking about just a regular charger?

The difference is whether you can have an energized plug (male). I have not looked at any manuals, but the equipment would need to be set up either like a portable genset (with a receptacle on the equipment, and a male inlet at the load) or a central UPS (typically hardwired, e.g. Powerwall).
 
Still blows my mind you can have a car power your house in an outage. It really is a wonderful idea.

I have 12 kwh of backup batteries and that cost more per kilowatt then if I'd ordered it with 4 wheels attached. That 12 will last maybe a week or so with just reduced loads. Conversely with the 75 to 120 kwh that most EV come with, I could run everything in the place for weeks. Although there is currently 150 kwh of batteries in my garage, sadly Elon wont let me use them like that. Boo.
 
Bilsch said:
Still blows my mind you can have a car power your house in an outage. It really is a wonderful idea.

I have 12 kwh of backup batteries and that cost more per kilowatt then if I'd ordered it with 4 wheels attached. That 12 will last maybe a week or so with just reduced loads. Conversely with the 75 to 120 kwh that most EV come with, I could run everything in the place for weeks. Although there is currently 150 kwh of batteries in my garage, sadly Elon wont let me use them like that. Boo.
Click to expand...
How do you stretch 12 KWhr over a week? Running the coffee maker for an hour a day uses half of that alone....
 
I don't have the option, so it doesn't matter, but I always felt like if you were battery powering your house it'd be the bare minimums. I'd have the furnace work in the winter, the frig plugged in at all times, and the rest - not so much. No coffee, no microwaving, no TV, etc. Still reading books and using candles type stuff. Make it last as long as possible within reason (I know there's a lot of parasitic draws to consider). When our power occasionally goes out it's for maybe as long as 2-3 hours, but I'd be looking to stretch a day or two worth of time. Beyond that I'd probably be on plan B. We really don't have any natural disasters here, just the occasional transformer blowing up at a local substation, stuff like that. I think if I was in tornado alley or somewhere with hurricanes I'd feel differently.

Running the house off the car is a sweet idea.
 
mashdar said:
Oh, I'm talking about powering the house from the vehicle. I think you're talking about just a regular charger?

The difference is whether you can have an energized plug (male). I have not looked at any manuals, but the equipment would need to be set up either like a portable genset (with a receptacle on the equipment, and a male inlet at the load) or a central UPS (typically hardwired, e.g. Powerwall).
Click to expand...

The one example of bi-di charger I looked at was hardwired.
 
Agent said:
How do you stretch 12 KWhr over a week? Running the coffee maker for an hour a day uses half of that alone....
Click to expand...
My reduced loads panel just has the important stuff like fridge, freezers, beer cooler etc. connected. Forgot to mention the 8 kw of solar on the roof so in reality I wont really ever get to test the week calculation unless the sun were to turn off.

Oh and I don't drink coffee. ;)
 
Last edited:
mashdar said:
Oh, I'm talking about powering the house from the vehicle. I think you're talking about just a regular charger?

The difference is whether you can have an energized plug (male). I have not looked at any manuals, but the equipment would need to be set up either like a portable genset (with a receptacle on the equipment, and a male inlet at the load) or a central UPS (typically hardwired, e.g. Powerwall).
Click to expand...
I’ve not looked that deeply into the process, but absent some sort of blocking diode or reverse current relay, if you have electrical potential on one side (I.e., a battery bank or a running generator) it seems like you could backfeed into a ‘dead’ or ‘disconnected from mains’ circuit breaker panel through the plug. Is this what you’re referring to?

I’ve heard of the dangerous process of plugging a running generator into a dryer outlet plug to feed a circuit breaker panel for a house. Other than trying (and failing) to power an 800 amp panel with a 3000 watt generator, you could also put power into the grid, putting an upline repair person in danger of electrocution unless you opened the main feed to your house panel, or install an automatic transfer switch to isolate your breaker panel from line voltage.

I’m guessing this is roughly how Power Walls or automatic standby home generators work. I have a 7000W portable outdoor generator that will power our “life boat” man cave room via heavy gauge extension cording under a closed window, but not through house wiring, for emergency heat, cooking, lights and communication. I guess I could also partially power selected house circuits with the RV genset's 3000W output until the propane runs out, or until the 400 Ah battery bank is depleted (30-45 minutes, maybe). Setting it up is above my pay grade, however.
 
Last edited:
My last house had a backfeed switch. I would turn off the main, turn on the backfeed, and run the generator. It was all on the main panel.

I regret not having one installed when I got my panel done. I guess that’s my next project now that I am in IBEW.
 
I don't like relying on a vehicle battery to power my house for extended amounts of time, as I'm going to want to drive away for supplies, or maybe my spouse would need to take it to work.

Home generators or backup batteries, they need to stay with the house. I expect my next EV to have 120v outlet plugs, but I would rather spend money on a separate generator. It's been on my list of things to buy and set up for a while.
 
Airborneguy said:
My last house had a backfeed switch. I would turn off the main, turn on the backfeed, and run the generator. It was all on the main panel.

I regret not having one installed when I got my panel done. I guess that’s my next project now that I am in IBEW.
Click to expand...
My dad was a EE major in college who preferred to work as a blue collar electrician, putting in 40 years working for Ford (IBEW & UAW). I learned just enough to be dangerous, but thankfully smart enough to call a licensed tradesman when I needed something done properly and safely.

Now I’m thinking (after this thread) to ask my electrician what he thinks of adding a backfeed switch that would allow me to power limited circuits (trip unneeded circuits) when using backfed current from the RV genset.
 
Brooothru said:
My dad was a EE major in college who preferred to work as a blue collar electrician, putting in 40 years working for Ford (IBEW & UAW). I learned just enough to be dangerous, but thankfully smart enough to call a licensed tradesman when I needed something done properly and safely.

Now I’m thinking (after this thread) to ask my electrician what he thinks of adding a backfeed switch that would allow me to power limited circuits (trip unneeded circuits) when using backfed current from the RV genset.
Click to expand...
It was very convenient. Where I live now, Generac gensets are very common, but my house didn’t have one and it’s a little rich for my blood. I have a great “portable” generator (From the previous house), I just need the backfeed switch.

We’ve lost power a few times since moving here, mostly from line damage issues. It sucks running extension cords. I really have to get on it.
 
Airborneguy said:
It was very convenient. Where I live now, Generac gensets are very common, but my house didn’t have one and it’s a little rich for my blood. I have a great “portable” generator (From the previous house), I just need the backfeed switch.

We’ve lost power a few times since moving here, mostly from line damage issues. It sucks running extension cords. I really have to get on it.
Click to expand...
I hear you. I keep my ‘portable’ generator (meaning it has wheels) in a shed with my lawn tractor. When threatening weather is forecast I lug it onto a covered patio where I can run heavy electrical cabling into the house for emergencies. A few neighbors have Generac setups, but as you said, pricey for the amount of use I’d likely get from one.

On the other hand, with a backfeed switch on the 240V outdoor patio outlet where I plug in my AIO brew kettle, or my planned garage outlet where I could backfeed from my RV, I could get a similar benefit, although without the automatic startup and transfer.

The 7000W generator could power the well pump and HVAC and possibly refrigerator circuits, though not simultaneously. The 3000W RV genset would require ‘one-at-a-time’ monitoring of loads and judicious use of power.
 
I just realized that I already have everything I need to backfeed. I can use the charger outlet, which is close to the garage door. I’d just need a cable long enough to keep the generator outside. Shut all the breakers, plug in, start the generator, turn that one breaker back on and then the ones I plan to use.

Correct me if I am wrong? I’m new to the union lol. I’ll ask my boss later.
 
Airborneguy said:
I just realized that I already have everything I need to backfeed. I can use the charger outlet, which is close to the garage door. I’d just need a cable long enough to keep the generator outside. Shut all the breakers, plug in, start the generator, turn that one breaker back on and then the ones I plan to use.

Correct me if I am wrong? I’m new to the union lol. I’ll ask my boss later.
Click to expand...
Technically - you need a way to guarantee isolation of the backfeed circuit from the mains. The cheapest is a panel interlock where only the backfed breaker or the mains can be on at the same time. But that also needs to be a dedicated circuit, since it'll be off anytime the mains are on.
 
I was lucky enough to come across a screaming deal on a stationary generator and ATS at the same time I was putting in solar and the utility was switching from overhead to underground service. So it was the perfect opportunity to completely overhaul the system to my desires, including a 100amp subpanel in the garage.
 
Airborneguy said:
I do have the room in my panel, so I’ll set it up correctly,
Click to expand...

And, part of correctly to be safe/compliant it should be set up with a generator inlet, not a common receptacle.

You do not want live exposed male prongs on the end of your genset cord. Some call those "suicide cords".

Genset cord connects to something like this. The male prongs are never live when the generator is not connected and/or not running) because it is isolated by the transfer switch or by the backfeed breaker/main breaker interlock.
Screenshot_20240130-094137_Edge.jpg
 
Last edited:
Brooothru said:
No, I misspoke, must be showing my age. But honestly now that you ask, I’m not sure what the rating is. Modern construction, 35 years old, and were the original occupants.
Click to expand...

Probably 200A. The main breaker typically has the amp rating showing on the end of the toggle if you are curious.
 
mac_1103 said:
How does that stop you from backfeeding onto the grid? I think you still need a manual transfer switch to be legal.
Click to expand...
Correct. Though you probably have a main cutoff switch between your main box and line feed into your house that can isolate you from the grid. I know it’s local code, and assume it’s also national electrical code as well. With that breaker tripped you can’t backfeed into the grid.

If that breaker is closed however, your generator would be trying to power all your neighbors houses while really pissing off the poor lineman trying to restore power. Their job is dangerous enough as it is without having to deal with yahoos like me trying to kill them.
 
Brooothru said:
Correct. Though you probably have a main cutoff switch between your main box and line feed into your house that can isolate you from the grid. I know it’s local code, and assume it’s also national electrical code as well. With that breaker tripped you can’t backfeed into the grid.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the function of either a dedicated transfer switch, or a backfeed breaker interlock.

The breaker interlock prevents the backfeed breaker from being closed until the main breaker is opened.

Given that the backfeed breaker has to be installed into the panel close to the main breaker for the physical interlock to function, it could take some circuits rearranging to implement. And, provided local authority allows the interlock method.

There are various styles but here's an example where you can see the main breaker has to be opened/off before the blocker can be lifted to close the backfeed breaker.

And, conversely, the main can't be closed until the backfeed is opened and the main block cleared.

Screenshot_20240130-103109_Edge.jpg
 
whoaru99 said:
And, part of correctly to be safe/compliant it should be set up with a generator inlet, not a common receptacle.

You do not want live exposed male prongs on the end of your genset cord. Some call those "suicide cords".

Genset cord connects to something like this. The male prongs are never live when the generator is not connected and/or not running) because it is isolated by the transfer switch or by the backfeed breaker/main breaker interlock.
View attachment 840460
Click to expand...
This!
 
whoaru99 said:
Yes, that's the function of either a dedicated transfer switch, or a backfeed breaker interlock.

The breaker interlock prevents the backfeed breaker from being closed until the main breaker is opened.

Given that the backfeed breaker has to be installed into the panel close to the main breaker for the physical interlock to function, it could take some circuits rearranging to implement. And, provided local authority allows the interlock method.

There are various styles but here's an example where you can see the main breaker has to be opened/off before the blocker can be lifted to close the backfeed breaker.

And, conversely, the main can't be closed until the backfeed is opened and the main block cleared.

View attachment 840465
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was thinking. Yes.
 
Another option is a dedicated critical/key load subpanel

Those typically have a three position switch for each circuit to take power from grid/main or generator or off.

The three-position switches are effectively circuit level transfer switches.

Some like this example have meters so you can easily monitor/balance the loads.
Screenshot_20240130-122401_Edge.jpg
 
Last edited:
My apology for contributing/stringing it out.

Figured it was fair game since discussion of using EV as backup power source came up, and for safety sake the right ways to do it.
 
whoaru99 said:
My apology for contributing/stringing it out.

Figured it was fair game since discussion of using EV as backup power source came up, and for safety sake the right ways to do it.
Click to expand...
No need to apologize. Threads often deviate from the original topic. I'm just wondering if this diversion has enough legs to warrant its own thread, so others interested could find it.

doug293cz
 
Brooothru said:
I hear you. I keep my ‘portable’ generator (meaning it has wheels) in a shed with my lawn tractor. When threatening weather is forecast I lug it onto a covered patio where I can run heavy electrical cabling into the house for emergencies. A few neighbors have Generac setups, but as you said, pricey for the amount of use I’d likely get from one.
Click to expand...
I do the same but I am still considering a Generac.
I get a couple outages/yr but we have had storms where some people were out for 5+ days.
That's too-many days of load swapping and the added noise of the portable.
Plus I bet it can be a selling feature for the house.
 
Back on track, how about the “value” in an already installed garage charger? My charger is a plug in but regardless I have two different 240v receptacles available in the garage. In the near future (if not now), that has to be a selling point.

I know for a fact it will be something we look at for our next house.
 
I wonder about the value of a durable, "dumb", charger vs a "smart" charger that one needs to pair with an app.

If I knew I was going to live in my current house for the next 8 years, I would invest in a nice smart charger, but with all the unknowns I am just going to put an outlet in and use what came with it.
 
Airborneguy said:
Back on track, how about the “value” in an already installed garage charger? My charger is a plug in but regardless I have two different 240v receptacles available in the garage. In the near future (if not now), that has to be a selling point.

I know for a fact it will be something we look at for our next house.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it depends a lot on the buyer.

For me the value wouldn't be a premium above rough cost, if that, because I have an idea how much it costs to do it, maybe could even do it myself.

That's probably not a lot of buyers though.
 
Airborneguy said:
Back on track, how about the “value” in an already installed garage charger? My charger is a plug in but regardless I have two different 240v receptacles available in the garage. In the near future (if not now), that has to be a selling point.

I know for a fact it will be something we look at for our next house.
Click to expand...

I doubt it's something (like most things in a house) that will recoup the actual value upon selling. Especially since a charger isn't a massive expense. If I was an EV owner, I'd probably be looking at the electrical service to make sure I didn't have to make some massive change to the service to install a charger (and thus an existing charger would check that box). But assuming that the existing service would support a charger, as I understand it that's generally a <$1K expense.

Something like a recently-replaced roof with solar and battery backup would be a MUCH bigger thing for me, because installing that myself would be a massive expense relative to a car charger.
 

Similar threads

Gunshowgreg
  • Poll
Do you consider electric/automated brewing equipment to be cheating?
2
Replies
69
Views
3K
JAReeves
JAReeves
seatazzz
Hiatuses.
2
Replies
47
Views
2K
mac_1103
mac_1103
Langerz
New Conical - Check my plan
Replies
15
Views
1K
Langerz
Langerz
K
Newbie on second brew with a few dumb questions!
Replies
16
Views
1K
SoCalPlumber
SoCalPlumber
hilljack13
Planning my setup...thoughts?
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
hilljack13
hilljack13
wps-hbt2

Latest posts

Back
Top