Dang, well that explains why my Brujos NEIPA had my worst efficiency ever. Good to know for future brews!
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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JTtilinfinity
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What’s the latest advice for using Voss Kveik with this style? Ferment hot to bring out more esters or cool(er) to suppress a bit and not overpower the hops? Brewing up a quick partial mash no-boil NEIPA with Mosaic, Azacca and Cashmere. Would like to pull out the orange from the Voss but not bury the hops.
agentbud
Well-Known Member
I have a done a few NEIPAs with Voss Kveik and always ferment at 98 F. They always turn out great. Very fruit forward.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Everyone has their preference. But if you’re going to bring the temps down to limit esters, it will in turn slow down their metabolism (slow fermentation). I would ask at that point, why use Voss then?
Hopefully that doesn’t come off rude but I feel like there’s 2 reasons to use kviek and it’s ester production/temp range and speed of fermentation but if your not targeting those, I would say just use a different yeast that better meets your target
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JTtilinfinity
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Not rude at all. Appreciate the insight as always. To clarify when I said cool(er) I meant 80-90F vs ~100F. I’ve read that >90 can cause the yeast to overpower hops.
I've done several Voss NEIPA's and ferment them at 80-82F... grain to glass in ~7 days. Still throws an orange tang type flavor. If I were to try it again, I'd probably ferment it at 78F. It should still ferment out quickly and maybe a little less of that orange tang thing.
Hullo! I am planning a NEIPA for my next batch (10L) and was considering this recipe: Brewfather.
These are the hops that I have at the moment in inventory:
I would be open to any sort of a flavor combination so all suggestions would be appreciated. I also do only a 30 minute boil so please do let me know the hop schedule accordingly.
These are the hops that I have at the moment in inventory:
- Bobek (Styrian Golding B) - 1oz
- Cashmere - 2oz
- East Kent Goldings (EKG) - 1oz
- Fuggle - 2oz
- Hallertauer Mittelfrueh - 1oz
- Sabro Cryo - 1oz
- Vista - 2oz
I would be open to any sort of a flavor combination so all suggestions would be appreciated. I also do only a 30 minute boil so please do let me know the hop schedule accordingly.
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+1 to these. Altho I give it longer than 7d, up to 12--14d, or the newness/hop bite is pretty in your face. I don't hard cold crash, however, but I do use floating dip tube. But ready in 12days is pretty useful on some occasions. Like not remembering what you said you'd have ready for something. Just for instance.
secretlevel
Well-Known Member
Hey friend, none of those hops really jump out to me as NEIPA hops, outside of maybe Sabro, but as your recipe is, it may be decent. I'd look to find some Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra etc. NZ hops are great too.
Recipe - increase your dry hop to around 2oz/gallon and change up the grain bill. You don't want this beer to be brown, you want it light in color <5ish SRM. Use pilsner, 2-row, oats and wheat. Torrefied barley would be fine too. If you don't have access to these, maybe just go with 100% 2-row or pilsner, they're available almost everywhere.
Yeah you could probably pull off an interesting hazy with your Cashmere, Sabra & Vista. But given you only have 5 oz of hops to work with, you might want to consider brewing more of a hazy pale ale with an O.G. around 1.055. I also wouldn't count on any of those as bittering hops so you could try something like 3 oz in the whirlpool and 2 oz in the dry hop. But you're really better off following the advice in the comment above and getting the ingredients for a proper NEIPA recipe.
Hullo! Thank you. I added citra in the boil to enhance the bittering. I've also reduced the Munich. This is what the recipe looks like now:
Redhouse Brewing
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In my opinion, still a little too dark. If you could get it to 8 or below. I, personally would drop the munich completely. Sub in some oat malt or flaked oats which you can get at any store (rolled oats). Additionally, the dry hops need to be at least 8 g/ liter and for the best stable haze, be added on day 7 of fermentation for 3-5 days. There was a study done by a chemist at Omega test who found this provided the most turbidity. I started doing this 2 years ago and my hazy beer has been excellent since.
Super! Thank you for that. Will work on refining the recipe. I am unsure if I have those many hops. If the homebrew store has not shipped as yet, will get them to try and ship this as well. As for the rolled oats, how much would you suggest?
Redhouse Brewing
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I usually use 2 lbs of flaked oats for a 6.5 gal batch. I also use 3lbs of malted oats, and 2 lbs of spelt malt in addition to the brewer’s malt.
I put all my other crushed grains in (brewzilla user) with some rice hulls then I put the oats in at the top.
Also, adjusting your water for the style is super important, especially if you want to get that soft, pillowy mouth feel. I suggest something close to:
Ca 60 Mg 10 Na 15 Cl 100 SO4 50
I put all my other crushed grains in (brewzilla user) with some rice hulls then I put the oats in at the top.
Also, adjusting your water for the style is super important, especially if you want to get that soft, pillowy mouth feel. I suggest something close to:
Ca 60 Mg 10 Na 15 Cl 100 SO4 50
Brilliant. Thank you!
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I got to meet the brujos team last week,had a beer with them at ruse brewing in Portland.
skleice
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That looks insane! How do you like it?
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Nice! I’ve met Sam once at fidens. Seemed like a nice guy. Didn’t get to talk much shop with him though
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Thanks man. It’s good so far. Still green with some touch of hopburn. Should be able to give a better critique in a week or so. Aroma is great, mouthfeel is outstanding, flavor is ok for right now but assuming it will be fine after some conditioning.
aaronm13
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Any chance you could post your recipe? My Brujos style is 4 weeks in the keg now. The hop flavour and aroma has improved but the alcohol bite still makes it a challenge. Definitely doesn't taste like I used a 17oz dry hop.
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He has it up in a previous post.
aaronm13
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Ah sorry, missed that. Haven't looked here in a good few days so just skimmed over posts. Thanks
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All good brother. Happy holidays.
aaronm13
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Same to you.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Oddly enough I feel like my beer is presenting this way as well. Was juicy right after taping but had some hopburn. Now the hopburn is subsiding I do notice a boozyness on the nose and in the flavor. Granted I connected the line with a higher psi to the hazy by mistake instead of the west coast so it’s def over carbed for the style but that shouldn’t cause this character
Also, I know my fermentation was at 70 during the first 48/72 hours, so it shouldn’t have been the issue.
Also maybe it’s in my head because I was looking for it but I thought it would be helpful to add I am experiencing something similar.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Hi adjuncts, probably nutrition related
This might be a little off topic but I'm getting conflicting answers searching around and my question is specific to this style so I'm coming here for the NEIPA expert opinion.
I recently upgraded to a conical. I wasn't real happy with my original fermenter and ability to transfer and eliminate oxygen. The results were good but there was definitely some risk. I also wanted to try to eliminate O2 exposure when dry hopping (I used a dry hop keg and opened lid with CO2 flowing while adding hops). I also didn't love only getting ~4.5 gallons of beer in the serving keg. (I have trouble keeping an NEIPA on tap - they go fast). So got myself a Fermtank 8 gallon and I have my first NEIPA in it now. (note I also built a version of a dry hopper to dry hop in the fermenter)
Fermentation is done. I soft crashed and went to dump the trub. I get some trub but then beer starts squirting out of the valve. I let it settle for a bit and repeat and get the same results. I've read a few things and there's some things I can try on future batches. Most promising sounds like reducing down the diameter of the output. Unfortunately the fermtank doesn't have a great means of putting a sight glass below the cone.
Anyway my questions for anyone in the thread using conicals.
1) How worried are you about dumping all the trub and yeast before dry hopping? So far I have always transferred off the top of the yeast/trub before dry hopping but I'm not sure how important that is. I can spend a couple days dumping a few times a day and getting as much as I can and then dry hop. One thing I'm learning though without having visibility to what's inside I really have no idea when to stop dumping. I'm not that worried about harvesting yeast more worried about if leaving yeast in the FV during dry hop will cause me issues.
2) If I still have some trub/yeast in the FV and want to rouse hops (I do) is that a problem that I'm also going to rouse the trub/yeast?I
Note once dry hop is complete I modified one of the TC port on the lid to fit a floating dip tube so I can cold crash and transfer off the top of everything to leave hops/trub/yeast in the FV so that isn't a problem.
I recently upgraded to a conical. I wasn't real happy with my original fermenter and ability to transfer and eliminate oxygen. The results were good but there was definitely some risk. I also wanted to try to eliminate O2 exposure when dry hopping (I used a dry hop keg and opened lid with CO2 flowing while adding hops). I also didn't love only getting ~4.5 gallons of beer in the serving keg. (I have trouble keeping an NEIPA on tap - they go fast). So got myself a Fermtank 8 gallon and I have my first NEIPA in it now. (note I also built a version of a dry hopper to dry hop in the fermenter)
Fermentation is done. I soft crashed and went to dump the trub. I get some trub but then beer starts squirting out of the valve. I let it settle for a bit and repeat and get the same results. I've read a few things and there's some things I can try on future batches. Most promising sounds like reducing down the diameter of the output. Unfortunately the fermtank doesn't have a great means of putting a sight glass below the cone.
Anyway my questions for anyone in the thread using conicals.
1) How worried are you about dumping all the trub and yeast before dry hopping? So far I have always transferred off the top of the yeast/trub before dry hopping but I'm not sure how important that is. I can spend a couple days dumping a few times a day and getting as much as I can and then dry hop. One thing I'm learning though without having visibility to what's inside I really have no idea when to stop dumping. I'm not that worried about harvesting yeast more worried about if leaving yeast in the FV during dry hop will cause me issues.
2) If I still have some trub/yeast in the FV and want to rouse hops (I do) is that a problem that I'm also going to rouse the trub/yeast?I
Note once dry hop is complete I modified one of the TC port on the lid to fit a floating dip tube so I can cold crash and transfer off the top of everything to leave hops/trub/yeast in the FV so that isn't a problem.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
I'd follow a pilsner water profile
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
ABV doesn't really come into it, it's more about what kind of style you're doing - if you're going for more of a NZ pilsner then go more lagery, but 4.5% and hazy (particularly since I assume you're using southern hemisphere hops?) sounds pretty much like modern British beer, what Jeff Alworth calls juicy bitter.
In which case - a minimum of 100ppm calcium like any other British beer, to ensure happy mash enzymes and yeast, and 2 or 3:1 chloride:sulphate.
If you want to rouse the hops you want to get as much out as possible. I use a spike conical and have been using different techniques for trub dumping over the past couple years. One if my best neipas was one that I soft crash to 50f for a couple days, spent 2 days dumping trub slow as possible a few times per day, let it come back to 55f and dry hopped there in 2 steps rousing a couple times between dry hops. They were 24 hours apart. This beer had some hop burn for the first week then was fantastic the rest of the time, and I brew 15gal batches so the third keg was still good after a few months.
The last time I roused the hops I must not have spent enough time getting the trub out, it had very bad hop burn that seemed to fade a little but never left completely.
I currently have a batch that I just did my soft crash on and I am skipping the rousing. Just gonna do a double dry hop at 55f and see what results I get. I did dump some trub but probably only a quart or so. This batch also didn't have good haze stability but that may have nothing to do with rousing and yeast contact.
As for how much to dump if your wanting to rouse, that can be tough from my standpoint because I start with 17.5 gallons in my fermenter, I'd say I dump a gallon if I'm planning to rouse. So if you dump 5% of your volume you start with that will give you a starting point.
My setup for dumping is: butterfly valve, sight glass, butterfly valve, elbow, reducer to 1/2 inch hose barb, 1/2 silicon hose, bucket. I start with the valve above the sight glass open during ferment, when I dump the trub I only have to open the bottom valve, I do this very slow until I see movement in my sight glass, the valve my be on the 2nd notch so barely open. About 2 to 3 psi of co2 pushing on the top of the fermenter. Sometimes I have to crack the valve more to get the initial push then I back it off to keep the beer from punching through the trub. Once done I close both valves so when I dry hop the hops dont drop into the sight glass. At this point, if I'm going to rouse I will remove the sight glass and clean everything, reassemble with a gas post at the bottom of the elbow, purge the hell out of it by cracking the tc while running 10psi of co2 in the bottom post. Seal it back up then rouse.
Sorry for the long post, hope any of this helps. As always everyone's technique and equipment are different so you'll have to feel your way through it.
Cheers!
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I guess that’s plausible but I would think with 75% of the bill being malted grains and the second gen of juice that there should be plenty of nutrients.
I’m am currently in the process of degassing it to be at a more appropriate carb level. I’ll keep everyone posted
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
Perhaps its too much of something.
Too much FAN can be a problem, I recall Oats can bring alot of fan to the table.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
That's really interesting. My first couple of days with this beer was so encouraging but took a sharp nose dive after that. Over the weekend it had improved (4 weeks in the keg) but still had that alcohol bite that's just not to style. I decided to add another 2oz of Nelson to the keg to try and mask the booze for want of a better word. Haven't tried it since as I've been sick and don't feel like drinking but will update over the next few days. Please keep us posted on it's development. Would love to get some idea as to what causes this to avoid it going forward.
aaronm13
Well-Known Member
Could you elaborate on this as I'm not sure what you mean? I use Servomyces in every brew and pitched 2 fresh packs of Verdant.
Brujos inspired NEIPA update:
10 lb Pils
5 lb Malted oat
3 lb Wheat
2 lb Flaked oat
*no boil hops*
2 oz Citra WP @ 170
2 oz Citra Lupo WP @ 170
10 oz Citra DH
2 oz Citra Lupo DH
90:260 sulfate:chloride
Imperial Juice gen 1
Fermented at 64, finishing at 70. Soft crashed to 55 before dry hopping for 2 days.
O.G. = 1.071
F.G. = 1.016
ABV = 7.2%
Aroma is candied pineapple, mango, lemon, passion fruit - its a very bright tropical fruit smell, zingy as opposed to overripe or dank. Flavor is pineapple, papaya, melon, and orange - also very bright, no heavier flavors bringing it down. Mouthfeel is medium, its just on the crisper side of juicy. Finish is pretty balanced, with a bit of hop bite, but not bitterness, to balance out the grain sweetness.
Overall, this is definitely a good NEIPA, but I need a little more time with it to fully assess the recipe. The color is awesome, its a dark photo, but its such a nice bright pale hazy yellow. The biggest different from my other recipes is high intensity of flavor and aroma. I'm sure if I used more than one hop I would get a better depth and complexity along with that intensity, but I wanted to test this with Citra as something I'm familiar with. My only complaint is that its a little bit drying on the finish, which takes away from the juiciness that you want to go along with all those great flavors. I'm not sure how I'd address that the next time I brew it. All in all, if you're looking for something new to try, I can recommend this recipe as a starting point for a more 'extreme' NEIPA.
Two quick edits: this is one month in the keg, and that's how long it took before I'd serve this beer to a friend. Also, I was able to ask Sam at the most recent Brujos release about the yeast he used in my favorite NEIPA ever (Humulus Magus) and it was Imperial Juice.
10 lb Pils
5 lb Malted oat
3 lb Wheat
2 lb Flaked oat
*no boil hops*
2 oz Citra WP @ 170
2 oz Citra Lupo WP @ 170
10 oz Citra DH
2 oz Citra Lupo DH
90:260 sulfate:chloride
Imperial Juice gen 1
Fermented at 64, finishing at 70. Soft crashed to 55 before dry hopping for 2 days.
O.G. = 1.071
F.G. = 1.016
ABV = 7.2%
Aroma is candied pineapple, mango, lemon, passion fruit - its a very bright tropical fruit smell, zingy as opposed to overripe or dank. Flavor is pineapple, papaya, melon, and orange - also very bright, no heavier flavors bringing it down. Mouthfeel is medium, its just on the crisper side of juicy. Finish is pretty balanced, with a bit of hop bite, but not bitterness, to balance out the grain sweetness.
Overall, this is definitely a good NEIPA, but I need a little more time with it to fully assess the recipe. The color is awesome, its a dark photo, but its such a nice bright pale hazy yellow. The biggest different from my other recipes is high intensity of flavor and aroma. I'm sure if I used more than one hop I would get a better depth and complexity along with that intensity, but I wanted to test this with Citra as something I'm familiar with. My only complaint is that its a little bit drying on the finish, which takes away from the juiciness that you want to go along with all those great flavors. I'm not sure how I'd address that the next time I brew it. All in all, if you're looking for something new to try, I can recommend this recipe as a starting point for a more 'extreme' NEIPA.
Two quick edits: this is one month in the keg, and that's how long it took before I'd serve this beer to a friend. Also, I was able to ask Sam at the most recent Brujos release about the yeast he used in my favorite NEIPA ever (Humulus Magus) and it was Imperial Juice.
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Yeah I got to ask his head brewer and the owner of living haus and they said the same thing. I’ll be up there in march for their grand opening.
Jesse Runowski
Well-Known Member
Nice work! Looks great and sounds even better.
One thing Sam said he does to increase body fullness is to add maltodextrin and or brewers crystals. I've never used brewers crystals before but I think I'll give them a shot when I try a Brujos clone.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I’ve recently found out a lot of big name hazy breweries are using adjuncting with maltodextrin
