Nitrogen Topping

[rferguson61]

According too my LHBS I almost ruined a batch because I racked out of a 5gal primary to a 6 gal secondary so I had an extra gallon of air on top of my beer which would allow it to oxidize. Makes sense. I was talking to my dad about this and telling gin what they said about racking to the same size or smaller to reduce the amount if oxygen siting on the beer. He agreed with them but then said "Or you could top it off with nitrogen." This was almost a year ago and I've been kicking the thought around...would this work? Would it maybe even produce a beter final product?

 

[millsware]

CO2 would work better because it is more dense than air and would form a blanket.

 

[Golddiggie]

Not sure if nitrogen would stay on the wort, or lift up... I do know that enough people cover their wort/brew in CO2 in those situations without ill effect. Since CO2 is heavier than air, it will blanket the wort and make it safe... Nitrogen might do the same thing... But wouldn't you rather leave that connected up to the stout keg??

 

[HopIowa]

If nitrogen is what you have, then try it. You will have an airlock on it, and as long as you (reduce as much as possible) remove the oxygen, you are fine. Heck, you could use hydrogen or helium if you really wanted to, but CO2 is what most people have, and this is what we use. You didn't ruin your brew by transfering 5g into a 6g carboy, just increased the chances for faster/more oxidation by the oxygen in the air. I'm sure you would agreee that for long term storage, 5g in a 6g carboy is not ideal (using air that contains O2) but most gasses available to us would work better for the long term storage/conditioning, as long as it was not O2.

 

[Golddiggie]

While I'll agree with some of what HopIowa says, I won't agree with being able to use hydrogen or helium... You want gasses that are heavier than air, not lighter. But, almost any inert gas should do the job (that's heavier than air)... I would make sure it's also a gas that's not toxic when used like this or would be harmful to the wort/brew... Argon would work... If you had it on hand at least... It's actually used in wine making.

Besides, hydrogen can be rather dangerous since it can ignite... Remember the Hindenburg?

 

[HopIowa]

I understand your point about certain gasses being heavier than air, however, i don't agree. most people are pushing CO2, N2, (insert random gas here) into their carboys at quite a flow rate. I would argue that the flow rate is great enough to purge out most of the air that is in the head space of the carboy. Having said this, as long as you replace the airlock quickly, that new gas overlay is not going anywhere. As far as using He or H, i was kidding of course, but actually it wouldn't harm your brew at all. There are many fermentation systems and anaerobic respiration growth cycles that use inert (meaning here: no oxygen) gas overlays. I can think of many. using Helium or Hydrogen, or Argon as you suggest would be fine. OK, maybe Radon gas would be bad, chlorine, flourine...farts...you get my point.

 

[Golddiggie]

METHANE!! It's not just for laughs, and Dutch-ovens, anymore... lol

Only issue I have with helium or hydrogen, other than the obvious dangerous nature of hydrogen is that if you use them, they will float out of the airlock and leave not much in it's place. But, IF the wort is still fermenting, then the yeast will release CO2 that could replace it fast enough. Although I have no idea how fast either hydrogen or helium would escape.

Personally, I'd just stick with CO2 if it was me... Or take a dose of FUKITOL and really not worry about it...

 

[HopIowa]

Sounds good. CO2 is best. IMO Nitrogen should work if you have it.

I think we all agree that no one is going to use Hydrogen...i hope. but, it's not going anywhere. The only place it can go is either absorbed into the beer or out the airlock. but since your airlock is filled with (choose your favorite liquid), the gas cannot escape. if this were true, you would create a vacuum in the headspace of your brew., thereby pulling more and more of the dissolved CO2 out of your brew, until you are left with a 5 gallon potential black hole. We all know what would happen here (think crossing the streams bad...).

I agree, i'd get some CO2 as well. And take some Timosil if ya got it...

 

[ChshreCat]

Me... I'd just primary in the 6 gallon and secondary in the 5 instead of the other way around. (or just not use a secondary)

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm just using the long primary, no secondary method... Only time I rack to another vessel it to add a flavor element, and wanting to get off of one that's in primary. Otherwise, let it ride on the yeast for the duration...

Of course, I'm brewing ales, or using ale yeast, so that works. Not ready to try my hand at a lager yet. Besides, I don't have a fermentation chamber to do it up right.

Not needed to top anything off with gas so far... Not to say I won't in the future... I might actually want to when I put my mead into corny kegs for long term aging... Just enough gas to blanket... Will probably not use CO2, so that I don't need to worry about them getting any carbonation.

 

[HopIowa]

Actually i changed my mind. I think for my next brew i'll oxygenate my primary as usual, then fill the headspace with hydrogen. I'll place a candle right next to my airlock. when fermentation starts, the CO2 will push out a burp of hydrogen, it'll ignite, and i'll know when my fermentation begins and ends...Beauty!

 

[Golddiggie]

Actually i changed my mind. I think for my next brew i'll oxygenate my primary as usual, then fill the headspace with hydrogen. I'll place a candle right next to my airlock. when fermentation starts, the CO2 will push out a burp of hydrogen, it'll ignite, and i'll know when my fermentation begins and ends...Beauty!

LMAO!!!

Let us know when you'll be brewing next, so that we can watch the news...

Be sure to chain down the primary too... So that it doesn't drift around in the brewery...

Of course, your neighbors might have questions about the explosions at all hours of the night...

 

[rferguson61]

Thanks for the input! This ended up being thee funniest thread I've posted lol. I like the hydrogen and candle idea. Sounds efficient.

And I have started going with the 6 gal to 5 gal if a secondary is needed. I'm trying not to use them now. But I'm planing on brewing a fruit beer out of "Zymurgy" next week and it will have to go to a secondary.

 

[HopIowa]

"Of course, your neighbors might have questions about the explosions at all hours of the night..."

ummm...i live in Utah. Everyone here has questions about what i am doing...

DEVIL BREW!:rockin:

 

[Golddiggie]

"Of course, your neighbors might have questions about the explosions at all hours of the night..."

ummm...i live in Utah. Everyone here has questions about what i am doing...

DEVIL BREW!:rockin:

I'm sure they do have plenty of questions about you, but these will be NEW questions...

I look forward to the day where I have a house where the closest neighbor is out of earshot (or gunshot)... One day... One day...

 

[rferguson61]

I look forward to the day where I have a house where the closest neighbor is out of earshot (or gunshot)... One day... One day...

At least you don't live with your anti-alcohol soon-to-be mother in law. Makes brew day a little less enjoyable.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

RDWHAHB. Put an airlock on it and forget about it. CO2 will still come out of solution and provide some insulation against oxidation. IMHO, you'll do more harm by causing turbulence (which may introduce oxygen into the head space) during an attempt at "nitrogen blanketing" than actually providing any protection.

 

[Gunfighter04]

I look forward to the day where I have a house where the closest neighbor is out of earshot (or gunshot)... One day... One day...

Trust me it's great. My closest neighbors are all Amish, and probably shoot out their back door more often than me.

I think I'm becoming a hermit. Brew my own Alcohol reload my own ammo. Now if they'd just get rid of those pesky distilling laws I could go full awn redneck.