Measuring infusion volumes - with a pump?

[ChrisfromAbby]

This seems to me like a stupid question to ask when I've been brewing for over 25 years.

But you've got to understand that I am only just now building a brew stand, and have a pump ready to go. I've built myself a sweet little sparge arm out of a piece of 1/4" copppeer tubing. I've got stainless fittings and lovely 3 piece ball valves...

However something occured to me - how do you measure the amount of water you move from your HLT to your MT when you are pumping the water? In the past, I used a really big measuring cup and just filled it from the HLT and poured it into the MT carefully.

There must be a simple way I'm missing because 1000's of people do it, not even counting the automation guys. I guess I could put a sight glass on the HLT but that seems to me to be a pretty inaccurate method on a 54L kettle.

I'm toying with 2 ideas.
1) using a grant that received from the HLT by gravity feed, but has a bulkhead fitting on the bottom that feeds to my pump. A simple ball valve opens it up once I've fillled the grant to the desired volume and I pump it all into the MT. Of course I still need to measure the volume in the grant - maybe a sight glass there, or smple volumetric markings on the side. Biggest issue in my mind is potential for heat loss.

2) I install a flow meter. These can be bought for about $40. But I will probably need a solonoid valve. I know next to nothing about these, but I'm willing to bet someone here does.

So please! Inform me of your methods!

Chris

 

[acidrain]

Sight glass on the HLT: http://brewhardware.com/measurement-devices/wlsightglass-60/49-lk

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

Strangely the little discussion out there about using flow meters in home brewing seemed to be uniformly negative. I'm not sure why so many are down on even trying.

Anyhow, installing a sight glass on my MLT would be a real pain. And the idea of the flow meter appeals greatly to me.

Here is my bench top test of the flow meter.
Digital flow meter for mash water.: http://youtu.be/94amn4phgKs

This is the unit purchased for $75
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181401579490?

Its rated for over boiling temp and you can program in the volume you want delivered. I needed to cobble a few plumbing parts to put it together. My plan is to have the option to divert inflow to either my sparge arm or backwards through the outlet in order to fill the lautertun.

Chris

 

[acidrain]

or backwards through the outlet in order to fill the lautertun.

Chris

I'm not understanding this part... do you intend to pump your entire mash backward through that meter?

Don't get me wrong, I love gadgets.
The reason you don't hear about flow meters is not a lot of guys use them when you can use a sight glass.

The site glass goes on the HLT, and is $27: http://www.brewhardware.com/measurement-devices/wlsightglass-60/49-lk
Or get one with a thermometer for $45: http://www.brewhardware.com/measurement-devices/wlsightglass-60/47-tk
That's a lot cheaper than a flow meter

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

No. I'm talking about filling the mash tun (i.e. for infusions). This way I can do it from the bottom up and avoid splashing.

Yeah. But a sight glass seems so - Caveman. Compared to a flow meter. ;-)
Besides. No drilling an extra hole. ( which would be a PITA to do on mine) I get a warning alarm as I approach my target volume. Besides, you could as easily tell all the guys building automation into their burner controls that they should just use a thermometer and a ball valve. It's the same difference really.

 

[rpe290]

No. I'm talking about filling the mash tun (i.e. for infusions). This way I can do it from the bottom up and avoid splashing.

Yeah. But a sight glass seems so - Caveman. Compared to a flow meter. ;-)
Besides. No drilling an extra hole. ( which would be a PITA to do on mine) I get a warning alarm as I approach my target volume. Besides, you could as easily tell all the guys building automation into their burner controls that they should just use a thermometer and a ball valve. It's the same difference really.

Are reliable flow meters as easy to find as reliable thermocouples? I haven't ever used flow meters, but it seems like a "large error" instrument (just intuitively). I think it would be awesome to have one, but it may be a larger hurdle than a simple temp number??

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

This one was easy enough to find! The accuracy seemed pretty close on my limited number of tests so far. Within 1% for sure. I also ran it a "barely open valve" rate to simulate sparging and it was bang on again. It can be calibrated (by the constant) which to me is a big plus. I've yet to test it at higher temperature (say 77C), but it is supposedly rated for hotter than that.

I'm stoked for using it during the sparge - Hoping I might be able to set it, and forget it. That is, program it for 5 gallons of sparge water then spend my concentration on the outflow from the mashtun.

 

[helibrewer]

I go the simple method....I fill the HLT with my mash volume....then drain the whole thing, no measurement required. During the mash, I refill the HLT with sparge water.

 

[Kingbogart]

I fly sparge and simply measure the water in the HLT before starting. When it's gone, I added what I needed. When fly sparging you can also just skip measuring all together have a bunch of extra and just stop when you reach pre-boil volume. Both methods are pretty simple and easy to understand.

 

[rpe290]

This one was easy enough to find! The accuracy seemed pretty close on my limited number of tests so far. Within 1% for sure. I also ran it a "barely open valve" rate to simulate sparging and it was bang on again. It can be calibrated (by the constant) which to me is a big plus. I've yet to test it at higher temperature (say 77C), but it is supposedly rated for hotter than that.

I'm stoked for using it during the sparge - Hoping I might be able to set it, and forget it. That is, program it for 5 gallons of sparge water then spend my concentration on the outflow from the mashtun.

Seems like you intended for a pic or a link and missed it, I am interested if you could redo it!

 

[Bobby_M]

If you put 12 gallons in your HLT (as determined by watching the level on the sight glass) and you later want to move 5 gallons to the MLT, you pump until the HLT sight glass says 7 gallons. I'm all for flow meters if it actually makes your brew day better but what happens if you forget to zero it out before you start pumping? How much is in each vessel now? Sight glasses tell you what's in the tank "now". There are a lot of ways to mark off levels on various vessels from etching the interior of the pot, to making a dipstick, but sight glasses are the only method that doesn't involve looking into or reaching into the vessel. Sometimes it's not important, other times the HLT is up on a 3rd tier above your head.

 

[Spartan1979]

Anyhow, installing a sight glass on my MLT would be a real pain. And the idea of the flow meter appeals greatly to me.

You put the sight glass on the HLT and measure how much you remove.

 

[res291que]

I think what he was saying is he has cooler MLT and would be a pain to install a sight glass


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Bobby_M]

No one is suggesting to put a sight glass on an MLT. OP came asking how everyone measures water leaving the HLT and really just wanted everyone to suggest a flow meter because the answer he wanted. The one from China linked there is pretty cool. If it's really food grade for high temps, it seems like a fun gadget to mess around with.

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

You put the sight glass on the HLT and measure how much you remove.

Oops, I should have written HLT not MLT originally.

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

No one is suggesting to put a sight glass on an MLT. OP came asking how everyone measures water leaving the HLT and really just wanted everyone to suggest a flow meter...

That would have been a little disingenuous me! No. I originally asked this several months ago when designing my brew bench. I have wrapped My HLT with rock wool and skinned it with aluminum, adding 2 inches of thickness to the sides. Porting out for a sight glass would be difficult. I was contemplating using a grant where I could measure my water or of the HLT. I was even thinking about float levels, scales and such. It was later on I came across the flow meter idea.

The pre-measuring idea has merit, but I often do step mashes, which might cause hiccoughs.

 

[Bobby_M]

Totally. I was being a smart ass without even noticing the lag between the original post and your second followup. Apologies.

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

No worries, I didn't think you would. I'm still buying stuff from ya!

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

A friend is interested in trying out the pump and I was explaining my set up.
A small issue I ran into was that there is very fine mesh filter on the inlet for the solenoid. It got gummed up with debris towards the end of my sparge. Not a big deal, as the ~ 500mL/min flow rate was ok for my purposes at that point. Although I thought my HLT and sparge water were pretty clean, it didn't take much to clog the filter.

The filter IS removable, so I cleaned it under the tap with a brush and Q-tip. However, to prevent further issue, I bought a small in-line filter from an RV supply shop. This $10 pre-filter has a screw-off cap by which you can readily remove the stainless cylinder mesh to clean it.

Chris