Mash Issues

[noreaster40s]

It's been quite awhile since I last did an all grain batch. Before this I have only done 2 others. I'm still in the learning process but what I find most difficult is hitting the correct mash temp I'm looking for.

The one I'm currently brewing as I type this (it's steeping at the moment) I got my water to temp and put it in my chest cooler and let it set to warm up the tun before I added the grains. Once the water temp cooled to where I wanted it I added the grains and found the temp was still too high (160) when I was shooting for 154. So I ended up adding 2 quarts of cooler water which brought it down to where I wanted but then it kept going down! I had to end up adding almost 2 quarts of boiling water to bet it back to 152. Now, after 40 minutes, checked on it to stir it some and the temp was down to 146. I didn't add anymore water because I need to have some left to sparge with. As it is I won't have but about half of what I wanted to sparge with. Hopefully it'll still come out ok.

Lesson learned for next time.

 

[Bensiff]

Sounds like you are not giving it enough time to equalize. I never pre-heat my cooler, just figure 3 degrees for temp loss which most calculators have an option for. When its really cold I add a few more degrees to that. I almost always hit my temp dead on doing this. Another trick I have learned is that when you are learning your system heat the strike water a degree or two warmer than the calculator tells you for wiggle room. It is easier to keep the lid off and stir constantly to get rid of those few degrees than add boiling water.

 

[Yooper]

I preheat my cooler.

One thing to keep in mind is that when you add boiling (or cold) water to adjust the temp, you have to stir thoroughly. What I like to do is check the temperature throughout the mash. If it's different in one place than in another place, the mash isn't stirred enough. Stir until the temperature is the same throughout, cover it and let it sit a few minutes to equalize, THEN check again. Doing that keeps you from adding hot, then cold, then hot, etc. A properly preheated cooler will not drop more than a degree or two in a one hour mash.

 

[Bensiff]

I preheat my cooler.

One thing to keep in mind is that when you add boiling (or cold) water to adjust the temp, you have to stir thoroughly. What I like to do is check the temperature throughout the mash. If it's different in one place than in another place, the mash isn't stirred enough. Stir until the temperature is the same throughout, cover it and let it sit a few minutes to equalize, THEN check again. Doing that keeps you from adding hot, then cold, then hot, etc. A properly preheated cooler will not drop more than a degree or two in a one hour mash.

A non-preheated cooler will hold temp within a degree if you figure for the heat loss at the onset. That is not to be argumentative Yooper, just that non-preheating works just as well with the benefit of being faster and not wasting by dumping hot water (or at least wasting time if you recycle it back to the HLT and re-heat to strike temp). However, I live in Western Washington so its a mild climate, a cold brew day for me is in the 30's...maybe in really cold areas it would make alot more sense to get the cooler's temp up.

 

[noreaster40s]

I'm drawing the last of my sparge out now. It's a learning process for sure. I did my sparge in 2 batches. I made a mistake with my first one only heating the water to 170F. The 2nd half I heated it up to about 187. I know in Beersmith it says 168 but I figured warmer would be better in this case since the steeping was under what I wanted. Anyway. even after adding the 187F water to the mash for the 2nd sparge it only brought the mash temp up to about 154. Isn't the mash supposed to be like 168? Oh well, the process goes on and it'll be beer.

 

[maida7]

A non-preheated cooler will hold temp within a degree if you figure for the heat loss at the onset.

Correct but it takes much longer for the cooler to absorb the heat from the water. So the temp will continue to drop.

I pour my water in and wait like 10 minutes for the cooler to abosrb heat and the temps to equalize. I would call this preheating.

Then I dough in and stir everything up for several minutes. The stiring helps with the dough balls and it helps even out the temps. Then see where the temp is and take a pH reading.

Don't rush to adjust the temps. Give it a few more stirs and see if won't just fix itself. If after lotsa stiring it's still off then, I add a few ice cubes to cool OR do a decoction to heat.

 

[Bensiff]

Correct but it takes much longer for the cooler to absorb the heat from the water. So the temp will continue to drop.

I pour my water in and wait like 10 minutes for the cooler to abosrb heat and the temps to equalize. I would call this preheating.

Then I dough in and stir everything up for several minutes. The stiring helps with the dough balls and it helps even out the temps. Then see where the temp is and take a pH reading.

Don't rush to adjust the temps. Give it a few more stirs and see if won't just fix itself. If after lotsa stiring it's still off then, I add a few ice cubes to cool OR do a decoction to heat.

As I said, its not a right or wrong, just a matter of preference. I know if I figure for 3 degrees system loss I will always hit my temp dead on without having to use ice or boiling water. I would consider the above doing the exact same thing as I do, I just add the grains at the same time.

 

[maida7]

As I said, its not a right or wrong, just a matter of preference. I know if I figure for 3 degrees system loss I will always hit my temp dead on without having to use ice or boiling water. I would consider the above doing the exact same thing as I do, I just add the grains at the same time.

I fully agree!

Perhaps my cooler is much bigger so my view on the subject is skewed slightly. For example, my strike water is general 30-35 degrees hotter then my target mash temp. And that works very well in with my set up. I rarely have to adjust the temp after I've got the grain all mixed in.

Quite a bit different then your 3 degree loss.

 

[maida7]

I'm drawing the last of my sparge out now. It's a learning process for sure. I did my sparge in 2 batches. I made a mistake with my first one only heating the water to 170F. The 2nd half I heated it up to about 187. I know in Beersmith it says 168 but I figured warmer would be better in this case since the steeping was under what I wanted. Anyway. even after adding the 187F water to the mash for the 2nd sparge it only brought the mash temp up to about 154. Isn't the mash supposed to be like 168? Oh well, the process goes on and it'll be beer.

Yeah by the time I've run off the mash will have cooled a bit so I use 190F sparge water (batch sparging) and that gets everything back up to 170F.

You can change the settings in beersmith for your set up. keep tweaking the settings every time you brew until everything works and is repeatable.

 

[OLDBREW]

like Yooper Brew said, preheating the cooler takes away one of the variables.
Measuring the grain temperature is another variable. From there as long as you have the proper weight in grains and volumes of water, the calculators should put you on target. When you stir your mash really well at dough in, you close the lid then come back in 5 minutes to see if the temperature has evened out. It takes those few minutes to absorb the heat so unless you are way off on overshooting the target, stir real well getting all the dough balls saturated, and separated before trying to correct it.,

 

[Bensiff]

I'm figuring 3 degree loss going to the cooler, then more for the grain. I mash in in the high 160's to low 170's for single infusion brews.

If you preheat your cooler to your desired mash temp then it would take away the variable, otherwise you are just trying to minimize the variable's impact.

I think we are going around in circles here as both methods yield the same results, I just prefer the lazier way and doing it all at the same time as I know the heat sink capacity of my cooler so it is easy to correct for it.

But yeah, as Oldbrew said getting back to the OP, no matter what method you use, if you don't mix well and give time for the heat to balance then you will end up in the ice/boiling water teeter-totter.

 

[noreaster40s]

Well, it's in the primary fermenter. The OG ended up being about 1.046 and according to Brewsmith it was supposed to come out at 1.059. I'm assuming this is due to me not getting up to the temps I was supposed to. Next time .... I hope.

 

[jim81147]

I have found that whatever method you use , you need to get it dialed in . With todays highly modified malts , you can get a good portion of the conversion in the first 10 minutes so if you are waiting for temps to come down or equalize or ? your mash does not know that and is converting at a temp that you may not want . Just something else to muddle the waters !

 

[Bensiff]

Well, it's in the primary fermenter. The OG ended up being about 1.046 and according to Brewsmith it was supposed to come out at 1.059. I'm assuming this is due to me not getting up to the temps I was supposed to. Next time .... I hope.

Yeah, that sounds like the pains of learning your system. Probably not the water so much...look at other things like crush, manifold design, and sparge technique to find the bulk of the ineffeciency. Once you get your system dialed in from crush to water modifications so that you know you will hit your numbers every time life will be good. In the meantime, you can boil down to your gravity (10 points is a lot though) or keep some light DME on hand to boost it in the last 15 or so minutes if you realize you won't be hitting your number. Maybe not ideal, but better than having a thin beer for the style.

 

[noreaster40s]

I just brewed another batch today and things went alot smoother. Between the notes I took last time and remembering a few things I think it made a difference. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.