Mash In A Bucket system

[Skidsmint]

hey! That's what I said! (haha)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/full-volume-mash-vs-1-25-qt-408061/#post5167343

I agree and you're probably right, but I can still worry about husk bits and such making it into the bk.

like that temp prove setup, Scotty!

Lol looks like we research from the same articles then!

 

[bunt1828]

Any new updates or lessons learned? I'm hoping to build one of these eventually when work slows down, but for now I can only live vicariously through the forum... Still getting solid efficiencies?

 

[Weezy]

Any new updates or lessons learned? I'm hoping to build one of these eventually when work slows down, but for now I can only live vicariously through the forum... Still getting solid efficiencies?

I hear you! I'm in the same boat. I'm actually working on a spin off of this. I'm using this controller with a HERMS setup and 10g cooler. But the flow set-up is going to be like a Braumeister. thanks to Skidsmint for showing us the controller.

 

[scotty2]

I'm having a slew of issues with the system. Most are because I'm green. Went to brew a kolsch last week. Used 11lbs of grain and referred to BIAB app for water volume. Turns out that 11lbs of grain and 9.125 gallons of water don't fit in a 10gal cooler. Long story short, post boil gravity of 1085. I should add I'm using a wide 20 gallon kettle and burning with what seems to be a jet engine. Also having issues with the temperature controller, seems to run the heat element about 6-8 degrees warmer than I set, which would be fine except that the temperature actually exceeds the set number on the machine itself. In other words, I have it set at 115 and the actually temp will be 122, fine, I can work around that. But, the temperature on the machine will exceed 115. Only 3 brews on the system and 4 overall, so, like I said, very green. The only brew that was trouble free was the one where I actually sparged. Lots of kinks to be worked out.

 

[cooldood]

I just checked back in. My question is; would a PID or SV controller be better? I would think the PID would be cheaper.

 

[Weezy]

I just checked back in. My question is; would a PID or SV controller be better? I would think the PID would be cheaper.

I'm not sure I understand your question? This is a SV controller. A PID gives you no automation like the SV controller. The SV lets you set up to 8 steps of temp and time at that temp. The PID just holds a temp. You have to manually change temps and watch the clock yourself with just a PID setup.

The only real downside to this controller is low amperage output. But i'm betting you can rig up the output to a 30A to 40A ac-to-ac SSR to run more or bigger heating elements:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009NC88H8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[cooldood]

I am noob so pardon my noobiness. What is a "normal" usage of the steps you are talking about?

 

[Weezy]

This SV controller lets you program in up to 8 mash steps. Let's say for your mash you want to do a acid rest/dough-in break, then a protein rest, then a sacc rest, then mash out. So you could program intot he SV controller:

step 1: 103*F for 5 minutes
step 2: 122F for 10 min
step 3: 150F for 60 min
step 4: 170F for 2 min

That's if you want to get fancy. A more common setup would probably just be a mash step then a quick mash out step.

But the point is it's automated. You don't need to manually set a temp on a PID to hold the wort at, and then you need to separately set a timer to remind you to come back and shut it off or change the temp. The Sous Vide controller is doing all of that. There are people out there programming Raspberry Pis to do the same thing this $120 controller does.

 

[cooldood]

thanks for the explanation
I was unaware of the steps you described.

 

[Skidsmint]

I'm not sure I understand your question? This is a SV controller. A PID gives you no automation like the SV controller. The SV lets you set up to 8 steps of temp and time at that temp. The PID just holds a temp. You have to manually change temps and watch the clock yourself with just a PID setup.

The only real downside to this controller is low amperage output. But i'm betting you can rig up the output to a 30A to 40A ac-to-ac SSR to run more or bigger heating elements:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009NC88H8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I took my SV apart when I first got it since it's made in China. I wanted to make sure that there were no loose connections and check the solder to make sure there wouldn't be any fire hazards. Everything was put together very well and there was a 25amp SSR with heat sink, so I would think switching over to a 30 or 40amp SSR would be pretty easy. The wiring looked to be a fairly heavy gauge to handle extra juice but I can't remember what gauge off hand.

 

[Skidsmint]

I made a couple improvements on my set up and had a chance to try it out 2 weekends ago. I flipped the heating element upside down because I was getting small air pockets inside of the RIMS tube which was not allowing the element to be fully immersed in the wort. It would take a long time to reach the 170 mash out temp with only 75% of the element heating the wort. The next improvement I did was to add a "T" to the inlet side of the pump and also add a shut off valve to the "T", that way I can drain the wort to my brew kettle and let the RIMS tube back flow into the kettle as well. It makes clean up much easier and it won't drip onto my counter as it used to when I would unscrew the hose and try to catch everything in a large bowl!

I brewed a Cream Ale using the Northern Brewer recipe and hit 89% efficiency according to iBrewmaster 2, OG came in at 1.044. I did a 75 minute recirculating mash at 152 and then a 15 minute mash out at 170. Having the RIMS tube upside down made a big difference when ramping up the temp to 170, it was much quicker than in the past.

Using the Cream Ale as my guinea pig, I'm trying my own spin on a pressurized fermentation technique that I read on HBT, heres the link https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/ I'm trying a no chill method and using a pony keg as the primary/serving keg. So far it's working out great and last gravity reading was 1.013 at 15psi. It should be done and fully carbed by Thursday or Friday.

The thread is definitely long but it's an interesting read and got me thinking about ways to improve upon the idea of pressurized fermenting.

 

[cooldood]

Pardon please for another dumb question

What kind of hose are you suing? It looks more flexible than the stuff I have been using.

 

[Skidsmint]

Pardon please for another dumb question

What kind of hose are you suing? It looks more flexible than the stuff I have been using.

I use Norprene for most of the tubing since it holds up to the pressure of the pump and some silicone tubing for the drainage tube.

 

[scotty2]

Updated this system by incorporating a keggle for a true one vessel system. I didn't lid the keggle and I modified the heating system. Since the keggle weighs a ton and its used as a boil kettle, I placed it on the burner for the duration. So, what I did is use the burner to get the strike water up to temperature and then employ the PID to maintain the temperature for the designated step. I did this for all 3 steps and it worked flawlessly. Seeing as I have had several issues getting the PID to work correctly, this is a great alternative. Btw, I had no issue holding temperatures in the unlidded, uninsulated keggle, although it was 80 degrees yesterday, so, that may play a small role.

 

[bunt1828]

Scotty2, have you had any issues with the 400 mesh?

I'm going to try and order the grain basket soon. I don't think I'll be able to get the full RIMS portion added to the cooler for a while, so for a few weeks/months the basket will just act as a false bottom. My concern is that without circulating the system the basket won't suffice and I'll end up with more junk in the boil than is desirable (I suppose I could always try and vorlof). This is why I'm leaning towards 400 mesh over 300, but I just wanted to check and see if you are having any issues with stuck mashes or noticeable channeling during circulation.

What size did you guys order? I'm out of the country for work and can't measure my cooler.. Any issues with the back side of the cooler valve getting in the way of the basket?

 

[bunt1828]

Scotty2, have you had any issues with the 400 mesh?

I'm going to try and order the grain basket soon. I don't think I'll be able to get the full RIMS portion added to the cooler for a while, so for a few weeks/months the basket will just act as a false bottom. My concern is that without circulating the system the basket won't suffice and I'll end up with more junk in the boil than is desirable (I suppose I could always try and vorlof). This is why I'm leaning towards 400 mesh over 300, but I just wanted to check and see if you are having any issues with stuck mashes or noticeable channeling during circulation.

What size did you guys order? I'm out of the country for work and can't measure my cooler.. Any issues with the back side of the cooler valve getting in the way of the basket?

So I realized you guys are working with 300/400 micron, not mesh (which is a huge difference..). I suppose my question still remains, but swap 300 vs 400 (now leaning towards 300 micron..)

 

[goldenrice]

I really like the temp controller used in OPs system. Does this controller offer any benefits over wiring my own PID? Specifically, is the sous-vide controller equipped to turn off the heating element if the pump stops running? This is my big hang-up in buying one of these or using my (extremely limited) electrical knowledge to wire up my own box.

 

[Weezy]

The benefit over a PID is that you don't need to wire anything. Do you need/want to stop the pump when the heating element goes off? Beauty of the pump is that the constant recirc helps prevent hot/cold spots.

My controller died over the weekend. The output stopped sending any power to the plug. Maybe the ssr died. But then the screen went dead. YMMV.

.

 

[goldenrice]

The issue is stopping the heating element if the pump is not pumping wort. I will use a false bottom and I do get a few stuck sparges. I am afraid if I get a stuck sparge two things will happen. 1. RIMS tube empties via gravity and my heating element burns up. 2. RIMS tube does not empty and the wort boils off. Anyone else experience this or am I over-thinking myself into my own problem?

 

[Weezy]

I use conventional brewing methods but I use a BIAB bag to hold my grain. No stuck sparges, no grain in the recirculation stream, no need to set a grain bed with a slow sparge since the bag does the filtering.

I don't know how you'd get a system to shutoff the element if the pump dies. A flow sensor? If the pump stops, it is still getting power so electrical switching won't do it. You still need to keep an eye on the rig while brewing. You hopefully just don't need to micromanage everything and you get an erig working.

 

[dyqik]

I was about to ask if you'd tried the tube flowing in the other direction - I see from your photos that you have now. The reason I was going to ask is that the RIMS threads (and this is a RIMS tube) usually say to put the temperature probe downstream of the heating element, so that you are measuring the output temperature of the wort, and you are sure that you aren't over heating it.

 

[brewnz]

My controller died over the weekend. The output stopped sending any power to the plug. Maybe the ssr died. But then the screen went dead. YMMV.
.

Is this the same controller as in the OP? as I've just bought and received the 'Golden Rhino' but have only water tested it and not used it for a brew yet - were you able to diagnose the problem?

 

[Weezy]

There's nothing to be done. Everything plugs into a PCB board. Hopefully mine was a fluke because it does work well and its a good solution for those unwilling to tackle wiring. No regrets here.

 

[brewnz]

Sorry to hear...hopefully it's a one off problem and mine doesn't suffer the same fate any time soon! and yes I agree it's one hell of a deal if you don't want to be mucking about with wiring and such - my time is worth far more than that.

 

[Zmanwithdog]

I was about to ask if you'd tried the tube flowing in the other direction - I see from your photos that you have now. The reason I was going to ask is that the RIMS threads (and this is a RIMS tube) usually say to put the temperature probe downstream of the heating element, so that you are measuring the output temperature of the wort, and you are sure that you aren't over heating it.

The underlying issue is that the temperature probe is indeed up-stream of the heater...you are monitoring the temperature of the mash outlet and the heater is firing at least one more time thus it's causing an over shoot of the target temperature. Simple solution is to swap the orientation of the RIMS tube assembly such that the temperature probe is on the outlet going back to the cooler.

Good design otherwise and I too am watching the results as this design is simple yet effective/efficient if done correctly.

 

[cooldood]

I am looking to start my build of this system.
I want to use 120v heating element. so a couple of quick questions
Does anybody have a link to a SS clad element? 120v 1200 watt?

controller
1 120v in
2 120v in
3????
4 to SSR 3
5???
6 alarm
7 alarm
8
9 thermocouple
10thermocouple

SSR 1 120 in
2 120 out

 

[MemphisMakers]

OK, so you have a few months experience under your belt with this unit, what have you changed- if anything? One just has to love pure, clean, simple, functional design! What kind of heat ramp are you getting- 1-2 degrees per minute? What efficiencies are you getting? in a typical ~2#/ gal (ish) mashout are you getting 1040 OG? Everyone, especially gas guys, needs one of these !! Thanks for any updates