Last two batches came out murky

[keggert]

So my last two batches of beer came out really murky/cloudy. They are still in the fermenter and getting ready to go into secondary. I'm looking for the cause so the next batch does not suffer the same fate.

The first beer it happened to was a bock, single inf mash 155f, 60min, ph 5.1. The second was a pilsner single inf mash 155f, 60 min, ph 5.1. Both beers were clear when I varloufed, added Irish moss to the pilsner, not the bock, and at flame out they looked terrible, very cloudy.

The only other common item was the Weyermann Pilsner malt its the first time I've used this brand of malt. I've brewed the bock before using a Belgium pisner malt and it came out clear. So any ideas here, does weyermann malt require stepped mashing, mash ph wrong? Or..........

 

[j1n]

Could be chill haze. did you let it warm up and see if it stayed cloudy?

 

[keggert]

Currently at 58, not even bottled yet. I know this is early to be worried (day 10 in fermenter), but I haven't seen two this murky. Been brewing all grain about 2.5 yrs. Usually when transferring to the fermenter the beer is clearish. These two looked like it had something in it.

 

[Yooper]

There are a whole lot of things that go into clarity! The first of course is complete conversion from starch to sugar. If the wort was cloudy going into the boil kettle, and after the boil, that's the first place I"d look. It could be a starch haze. Do you check your conversion with iodine?

Next, mash pH also has a role. Did you get the 5.1 as an actual mash pH? If so, that's a bit too low.

The next thing to look at is a good hot break. Did you get a good hot break at the beginning of the boil? If not, you may have a protein haze.

Those are the things that come to mind for me at this point.

 

[keggert]

Wort was clear going into the boil kettle for both batches. The ph is from strips not an actual meter (meter is on my list of things to buy). Hot break for the bock was good. Had problems at the start of boil for the pilsner, had to switch heat source about 30 minutes into boil due to initial source died on me, boil was for 90 min

 

[TungstenBeer]

Weyermann Pilsner Malt could be the culprit. It is not quite as modified as something like a Castle Pilsner Malt (Belgium origin), which is highly modified. It's kind of on the edge of what I'd consider for a step mash... so I would think it's fine, but maybe a step mash would have helped.

HOWEVER, if the wort was clear when it went into the BK, then I don't think your problem has anything to do with the malt. If it's clear going into the fermentor, then to me it's a sanitation issue or some kind of yeast health issue.

How fast do you sparge? (damn, nevermind, that still would not cause haze since you said it was clear going into the BK!)

 

[keggert]

I was hoping for it being a malt issue, but I'm not convinced of it yet. It was clear going in the kettle, but was murky coming out of the kettle. Maybe Yooper has it right with a lousy hot break. I did have issues heating the kettle. May try a step mash for the next one and see how that goes.

 

[TungstenBeer]

I was hoping for it being a malt issue, but I'm not convinced of it yet. It was clear going in the kettle, but was murky coming out of the kettle. Maybe Yooper has it right with a lousy hot break. I did have issues heating the kettle. May try a step mash for the next one and see how that goes.

Ah - I misread one of your earlier posts. I thought you said clear going into the fermentor, but you clearly said it looked like there was something in it.

I agree with Yooper too; sounds like a weak hot break.

On a related note, my brewing friend's idea of a "rolling" boil is one that bubbles once every 5 seconds or so (convinced he's just being cheap about propane). He also has very little space for a good hot break in his kettle, and his beers are often cloudy and I'm convinced that's why. It's no mystery that when we brew a collaborative batch, I make sure I'm in control at the beginning of the boil, crank up the heat, and we come out with a much clearer beer.