Immersion And Herms?

[Spring_Chicken]

Just got a pump for my birthday and am thinking of ways to use it the next brew day. I'd like to try a herms using my immersion chiller in my HLT and just manually controlling it's flow and heat on the HLT. Also, it could be good to heat both strike and sparge at the same time with the only burner I have.

Also, I'm thinking that I could direct fire the MT (full size FB w/ dip tube) while pumping for step mashing,

Is there a reason that won't work? It seems simple, but I only seem to see people that have hard plumbed their heat exchangers in their HLT

I plan on keeping my HLT elevated so I'll only need the one pump.

Also, what other great things can I do with a pump?

 

[bhambrew]

A friend I brew with often does exactly what you mentioned. He places his immersion chiller into the HLT during the mash and recirculates the mash thru it to maintain the temp, if needed, and then to raise the temp for mash-out. With QD's on the immersion chiller, it works great.

My system is 2-tier with the HLT elevated and only one pump. I use gravity to fly sparge from the HLT to the MT, while using the pump to move the wort from the MT to the Boil Kettle at the same time. I then use the pump to recirculate the wort in the Boil Kettle for the last 15 minutes of the boil (to sanitize the pump and hoses) and then continue to run the pump to recirc the wort while cooling with my immersion chiller. My Boil kettle is plumbed so the pump makes a nice whirlpool when recirculating. After the beer is chilled, I shut everything down and put a lid on it for 20-30 minutes, and the trub forms a little cone at the bottom. Finally, I use the pump to transfer the wort from the Boil Kettle to the carboys when finished.

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

He places his immersion chiller into the HLT during the mash and recirculates the mash thru it to maintain the temp, if needed, and then to raise the temp for mash-out. With QD's on the immersion chiller, it works great.

works for me... easy, simple, setup.

I'm thinking that I could direct fire the MT

works... just don't crank the heat and be watchful for a slow down or stuck mash. Sometimes, the pump can pull hard enough to clog the fall bottom/screen, depending on the grain bill and crush. If flow stops--you'll scorch and burn malt sugars.

You heat your hot liquor tank up to 180-190F and you can step mash pumping the wort through the immersion chiller in the hot liquor tank. It's quick enough and no chance of burning.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

Would a straight HERMS could with the HLT at 190 raise it fast enough? I saw the figure +2 degrees F per minute as being the proper rate to increase for step mashes.

What kinds of beers require/are best for step mashing?

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

Would a straight HERMS could with the HLT at 190 raise it fast enough? I saw the figure +2 degrees F per minute as being the proper rate to increase for step mashes.

What kinds of beers require/are best for step mashing?

No beers really require step mashing.... Some people prefer it for various reasons. Overly simplified--> Think of malting and mashing as one continuous process with the major end goal of turning malt starch into malt sugar that ferments into clear, tasty, brew.

The maltster just takes a break after selling the finished malt and the brewer takes over with that same end-goal in mind. Not too many years ago, malting knowledge wasn't nearly what it is today. Step mashing was desirable. However, large breweries have poured billions over to maltsters--helping them make consistent malt that requires less from breweries.

If using standard brewers malt (two row) there is no need to step mash, and may even be detrimental to do so. I haven't had the textbook out in a while--but I believe one of the detriments is reducing the protein content too much can cause a pretty thin beer. Modified malt today, already has an ideal protein content....

You can look up the details... but that's the main gist.

That said, I have 50ft of 1/2" copper coil. At 190F, I can step mash at 2F a minute certainly.

The best way to experiment with flavor (in regards to mashing temps), IMO, is to make your favorite beer three times. First time, mash at about 145F--> that creates more fermentable sugar and therefore, usually, lower final gravities. Second time, mash at about 157F--> that creates more unfermentable sugars, usually, resulting in higher final gravities.
The third time, mash at about 152F for an in-between approach.

If you can, keep everything else in the recipe the same, and save a bottle or two of each to compare at the same time. You'll give the taste buds a valuable lesson. Then experiment with temps from there.

The protein rests and such, you can do as well, but they won't affect flavor as much IMO. More to do with clarity, body, and efficiency.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

That's a lot of great information right there. Thanks.

I think I'll keep it simple at first and just build a Jamil style copper pipe to do the whirlpool and mess with HERMS to keep my temps spot on. I have made beers at different mash temps both intentionally and not so I'm familiar with the differences caused by that.

Pumps are great. I think next ill try to find a peristaltic pump to do my transfers and recirculate ice waster for cooling.

 

[bhambrew]

works for me... easy, simple, setup.

works... just don't crank the heat and be watchful for a slow down or stuck mash. Sometimes, the pump can pull hard enough to clog the fall bottom/screen, depending on the grain bill and crush. If flow stops--you'll scorch and burn malt sugars.

You heat your hot liquor tank up to 180-190F and you can step mash pumping the wort through the immersion chiller in the hot liquor tank. It's quick enough and no chance of burning.

I'm researching HERMS for my next setup, which I hope to start building soon, and I was wondering: After the wort goes through your coil, how do you return it to the MLT? Most of the HERMS setups that I have seen in action just have a hose draped over the top of the MLT, some guys use a small piece of copper to direct the wort towards the side of the MLT, and others use nifty manifolds that attempt to return the heated wort evenly on top of the grains. I am curious if there is a big advantage to building a manifold over simply letting the wort return out the end of your hose. I assume that using a manifold would help keep the temperature more even in the mash.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

I'm researching HERMS for my next setup, which I hope to start building soon, and I was wondering: After the wort goes through your coil, how do you return it to the MLT? Most of the HERMS setups that I have seen in action just have a hose draped over the top of the MLT, some guys use a small piece of copper to direct the wort towards the side of the MLT, and others use nifty manifolds that attempt to return the heated wort evenly on top of the grains. I am curious if there is a big advantage to building a manifold over simply letting the wort return out the end of your hose. I assume that using a manifold would help keep the temperature more even in the mash.

Try to get the wort returned with as little contact to oxygen as possible. There is some worry that hot side aeration (HSA) could be caused during recirculating. I'm going to just put the hose in until I get a bulkhead and do the copper tube return under the head water.

 

[DrewBrewTheGreat]

I'm researching HERMS for my next setup, which I hope to start building soon, and I was wondering: After the wort goes through your coil, how do you return it to the MLT? Most of the HERMS setups that I have seen in action just have a hose draped over the top of the MLT, some guys use a small piece of copper to direct the wort towards the side of the MLT, and others use nifty manifolds that attempt to return the heated wort evenly on top of the grains. I am curious if there is a big advantage to building a manifold over simply letting the wort return out the end of your hose. I assume that using a manifold would help keep the temperature more even in the mash.

Small dip tube. It is bent at 90 degrees on the end in the wort.

quick disconnects make the system easy to use and take apart to clean and store.

p.s. best $20 spent.. turns on and off pump with remote: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020ML776/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[kmat123]

Small dip tube. It is bent at 90 degrees on the end in the wort.

quick disconnects make the system easy to use and take apart to clean and store.

p.s. best $20 spent.. turns on and off pump with remote: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020ML776/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Or for $10 and in stock at your local HD

Indoor/Outdoor Remote Plug-RC-009A-1 at The Home Depot

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, for the return to the MLT from my pump, I just lay the silicone tubing on top of the bed in a circle. The outlet is under the fluid to avoid picking up any air and the flow is gentle enough to not disturb the bed below...

Cheers!

 

[bhambrew]

So...it sounds like you guys are in favor of returning the wort to the MLT via a hose (either coiled on top, or attached to a short racking cane). Using this method, are you concerned about heating the wort evenly? For some reason, I just imagine a hose returning all the wort out in one place, and not keeping the temperature even in the whole mash??

Also, hot side aeration seems to be a concern. From reading various threads it seems that there are two groups of folks out there: those who don't care about HSA and those who avoid it like the plague. Is the risk of oxidation from HSA only during the mash, or is it also a concern during the boil? The reason I ask is because I watched a video of the New Belgium brewery where they showed one of their massive brew kettles in action (the Steinecker Merlin Wort Boiling System) and that thing appears to spray and aerate the wort like crazy for the whole boil! At the risk of going way off topic...is this a real concern for the homebrewer as long as you are not aggressively spraying your wort back into the MLT?

 

[Spring_Chicken]

HSA is only a concern before the boil. If you drink your beer fast you may never notice a problem. RDWHAH

The water on top of the wort that is being returned will establish its own and mix like a very slow toilet so heat is evenly distributed just like if you have ever fly sparged.

It's almost too easy to make beer.