I'm seriously considering opening a brewery

[craigh2011]

Ok, been home brewing for a year now; I've made 25 batches, most recently moved up to 10 gallon batches (the beer goes fast, we entertain a lot at my place and my friends, family, and I really like the stuff). I'm not a great brewer by any stretch, I know. I'm still following other people's recipes, even if I've begun to alter them a bit to serve my needs. But every time I drink a beer it makes me happy and why shouldn't I be able to do this?

Pros-
- I am is a competent microbiologist (so I understand sanitization and have no trouble keeping yeast happy) and I'm a guy who is pretty particular about process and quality control (I've most recently been running clinical labs for a living) so my batches have very little variation between them at this point
- As I've been running my own clinical labs for the last 10 years, I'm very comfortable navigating regulation and thriving in highly regulated environments
- Because I've always believed that truly good managers lead from the front, I've always learned every process and done every job in every business I've ever started; I know how to run a team of 400-500 people and get results from sales, marketing, HR, ops, production, etc...so I can run a business
- I'm just finishing up selling my last lab assets to a competitor, so I'm very liquid and will shortly be very unemployed; I'm 43, no way I'm ready to retire, and I've got the dough to get rolling and it won't change my lifestyle
- I'm absolutely psyched about this, and this is the third time I've ever felt this empassioned about a new business; the last two were tremendously successful because it's very easy to kick ass at what you love, I know I can crush this

Cons-
- my beer is good, not great
- I don't know what I don't know; I need legal representation, a damn good brewer, etc...

I've got some ideas about what to do next, but does anyone have any suggestions? Anyone know some good attorneys who're sharp on this subject in NC?

Thanks!

 

[oceanic_brew]

If I lived in your area I would run a brewery with you based solely on your credentials and past experience.

I rarely say that and have turned down money and partnership offers with some great people.

I too am weighing the pros and cons of a brewery. I've put about 10 years into carpentry and 23 into being a musician and just 6 years of brewing satisfies me as both an artist and someone who enjoys a physically and psychologically demanding work day.

I feel my experience in both areas gives me a good edge.

We'll see!

Good luck to you

 

[timdillon36]

If you want to jump all in my guess would be the quickest way would b to find a strugleing brew pub or the like and buy them out as long as the people, location, and equiptment are ok.

I'm sugesting buying a turn key brewery that already has all of the licencing in place but might be struggling due to management.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

Learn how to manage the business or get a really good business manager to do it for you. Don't try to be the head brewer and try to do the business side too.

Hire competent people. Not family members to fill key positions. Unless they are trained in the job you need. You will end up losing money fast.

Figure out advertising.

Pouring beer at every beer festival will not bring in more business. That should not be your sole means of advertising.
Most patrons of those festivals don't remember what they drank from your brewery's booth. Unless it was a very memorable beer. So don't pour the good ole stand bys.

 

[foam_top]

From what I read it sounds like your trying to take on every position yourself. I know some brothers who co-own a brewpub in town and they never brew except at home. The entire staff consists of the two owners, a manager, a master brewer and an assistant brewer. Keep in mind this is a brewpub, they don't distribute.

At any rate I agree with the previously mentioned buying out a brewery that's already set up for business. I wish you the best, keep us updated.

 

[pdxal]

Where are you located?
Have you entered any of your beers in competitions to get feedback? How have they done?
Have you gotten quotes for brewery equipment to get a small idea of capital needed to start? Lease and build out costs?
I wish you luck. I'm sure your management, ownership, and microbiology experience will serve you well.
You might try checking out http://www.probrewer.com/ for more information.

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

I am a 26 year old pharmacy student and I plan on opening a brewery down the road in my mid 40's after I have experimented with brewing for about 20 years, I have studied the business side of things, I have started a family, and I have paid off all of my student loans. My fiance' is a law student and she has already agreed to be 50/50 partners with me. This will help because her experience in law will help us when it comes to staying up to code with everything. It's all a stepping ladder for me. I love pharmacy, but I can't see myself waking up everyday, excited to go to work. Being a full time brewer and running a brewery would be more of a job like that. I will never give up my pharmacist license though because it's taking me 10 years to get it. Right now, I'm just going to keep brewing and learning about every little thing there is to know to be able to make great beer. Cheers!

 

[MaryB]

Why ruin a hobby by making it a business? I have been asked by the local bar to brew for them. I told them nope. I told them to buy the equipment, pay the licensing, setup as a brew pub and I will teach you how to do it yourself and even give you a recipe or two to get started. I will hold your hand along the way as long as you supply me with free beer when I am there.

So far the owner has has decided that spending the $200k to get setup under MN law won't pay...

 

[madscientist451]

Go for it. You only live once. Take a businesslike approach, make a good product and have a good location and you'll be successful eventually.
As an experienced business owner, you already have a leg up on other wanna-be brewery owners that don't have a clue on what it takes to run a business.
As a microbiologist, you probably already know what it takes to improve your beer, there's no point in waiting, upgrade your homebrew equipment and process and make it happen now.
Actually, to own a successful brewery, you don't even have to brew, you can hire someone to do it. You do have to have a vision of what you are trying to accomplish.
Plot all the breweries in a 100 mile radius on a map and visit them all, keep a notebook, talk to the staff and owners if you can. Get all the books, listen to all the podcasts, hire a consultant, be realistic about what your financial and time resources are.
Expect setbacks, delays, cost over runs, numerous problems both at work and and home.
If your wife/significant other isn't on board 100% you are doomed.
Doomed to either get a divorce or to fail at business, that is, one or the other is going to happen if she isn't all in.

Lots of competition in NC, but also lots of drinkers. Good Luck.

 

[beernutz]

I am envious OP. I'm 57 and likely within 10 years of retirement so I sometimes daydream out loud to my wife about opening a nano with a taproom. My wife tolerates my wistful talk but she knows its just talk. I think you have the right attitude and skills to position yourself for success. What is the competition like in your area?

My city of around a quarter million people has not had a brewery or even a brewpub for about 10 years but will have 2 breweries and a BJ's Brewhouse location opening in the first half of 2017 so the competition here is going to be stiff. It will be interesting to see if all 3 will be supported by the public.

 

[TheMadKing]

You sound like you're in the place I want to be in 10 years. I would love to do the same some day.

If you're in NC the best thing you could possibly do for the business right now is put it as close to the GA border near a big population as possible imo. Or put it in Georgia and be set up for an explosion of breweries once the laws change in 5 years or so.

GA currently has the most restrictive brewing laws in the country, so the number of breweries here is low, and they have to sell tours with free beer to customers. There's no such thing as buying a pint in a brewpub here.

I say go for it! Make sure your family is on board, do your research, have a good business plan, hire a lawyer, and location location location! Start big enough, and be ready to grow!

 

[JohnSand]

I think you'll be sorry if you don't at least look into it.

 

[craigh2011]

Thanks for all the responses, you guys are great! Just a few comments and questions...

Ain't no way, no how I'm trying to do all this myself, even the most capable hands can only accomplish so much; that said, I need my people to know I've walked a mile in their shoes and can back them up if they call, it's a respect thing I learned in the marines that's served me well. It's my job to build and staff a business strong enough that I won't need to receive emergency phone calls, but if I fail to do so I better be of use in the emergency I didn't plan for.

I'd prefer not to buy someone else's headache, not just because it's a ***** in my experience to overcome someone else's inertia but also because there is a lot of important bits to be learned along the way. I'm starting from scratch, I always have and I suspect I always will.

New Belgium is the poster child for what I think I want; I don't guess they make their real money on the tap rooms (which are fantastic btw) but rather on their distribution. Of course, I have no delusions of starting anywhere near that size, but a man has to have a target to hit lest he be shooting aimlessly in the wind...

I don't agree that making a hobby into a business makes it less fun. I loved motorcycles, I did a metal fab and custom chopper business, loved it, made a few bucks while in grad school for chemistry and learned how to machine and weld in the process. I ran into some health concerns, got acquainted with clinical labs, generated 32MM on that in the past decade and have met some damned fine people in the process. Really, business is just business in my view, regardless of your flavor. There's nothing quite like breathing life into a business you created, developing talent, and bringing something to the public that serves a need and betters people's lives- and the money isn't painful either, lol.

With respect to women and relationships- if you have the right one and you plan realistically and make time for them, you're fine. I'm 43, I've already learned this lesson (like most- the hard way) and I'm not concerned. I also have my assets very well protected just in case. Sorry if that sounds ****ty; I love my wife deeply. That said, I don't think money has any place in a loving relationship and since I've never met a love interest that earns like I do I like to take any money beyond what we'll use for the household off the table. My wife has no problem with this because she doesn't give a fat rat's ass about money. Not that you asked, but she's the best woman I know. Like I said, I'm good on this front.

So I guess my real question here- can anybody here refer any legal types who I can work with to help me navigate the regulatory environment? Anybody know anyone in here with experience in running a brewery?

Thanks again fellas.

 

[beernutz]

I can't answer your last questions and even though it sounds like you have your ducks in a row already funding-wise I thought I would throw this out there: https://wefunder.com/haintbluebrew <--this crowd investing website is how one of the new breweries in our area is getting funded. Apparently there are hundreds of other breweries also using this approach.

A likely more useful suggestion is to check out the probrewer forums. I've learned a lot about that business by reading them. There is a must read (imo) thread on lessons learned from starting a nano there that is epic. http://discussions.probrewer.com/forumdisplay.php?29-ProBrewer-Message-Board

 

[redllama]

One suggestion I would have would be to see if you can volunteer at a local brewery, preferably a start up. I worked at a start up brewery for a year during the setup and early production and I learned a ton on what I would do, and more importantly not do if/when I start my own brewery. Feel free to PM me and I'd be willing to share all my insights and lessons learned in further detail.

 

[kristiismean]

1st. Good luck. Seriously, Good luck
2nd. You would get more real responses if one knew your general location. The "Scene" is growing at a rapid pace,

It's great that you plan to hire people, and know that micro managing will not work, but, I guess it all depends on which direction you want to take... Are you looking for the Karben4, New Glarus, or brew pub grows into distribution approach? Or would you be just as happy being the mildly successful and in the black brew pub popular with locals and tourists.

Good luck, starting with a foundation of a few good recipes is better than starting with a bunch of mediocre ones....

 

[Auger]

Thanks for all the responses, you guys are great! Just a few comments and questions...

Ain't no way, no how I'm trying to do all this myself, even the most capable hands can only accomplish so much; that said, I need my people to know I've walked a mile in their shoes and can back them up if they call, it's a respect thing I learned in the marines that's served me well. It's my job to build and staff a business strong enough that I won't need to receive emergency phone calls, but if I fail to do so I better be of use in the emergency I didn't plan for.

I'd prefer not to buy someone else's headache, not just because it's a ***** in my experience to overcome someone else's inertia but also because there is a lot of important bits to be learned along the way. I'm starting from scratch, I always have and I suspect I always will.

New Belgium is the poster child for what I think I want; I don't guess they make their real money on the tap rooms (which are fantastic btw) but rather on their distribution. Of course, I have no delusions of starting anywhere near that size, but a man has to have a target to hit lest he be shooting aimlessly in the wind...

I don't agree that making a hobby into a business makes it less fun. I loved motorcycles, I did a metal fab and custom chopper business, loved it, made a few bucks while in grad school for chemistry and learned how to machine and weld in the process. I ran into some health concerns, got acquainted with clinical labs, generated 32MM on that in the past decade and have met some damned fine people in the process. Really, business is just business in my view, regardless of your flavor. There's nothing quite like breathing life into a business you created, developing talent, and bringing something to the public that serves a need and betters people's lives- and the money isn't painful either, lol.

With respect to women and relationships- if you have the right one and you plan realistically and make time for them, you're fine. I'm 43, I've already learned this lesson (like most- the hard way) and I'm not concerned. I also have my assets very well protected just in case. Sorry if that sounds ****ty; I love my wife deeply. That said, I don't think money has any place in a loving relationship and since I've never met a love interest that earns like I do I like to take any money beyond what we'll use for the household off the table. My wife has no problem with this because she doesn't give a fat rat's ass about money. Not that you asked, but she's the best woman I know. Like I said, I'm good on this front.

So I guess my real question here- can anybody here refer any legal types who I can work with to help me navigate the regulatory environment? Anybody know anyone in here with experience in running a brewery?

Thanks again fellas.

If you're looking for specific legal/regulatory help, there are a few consulting people/companies that advertise on the ProBrewer forums to help people do exactly what you're trying to do - take a bunch of money and use it to start a business. Consulting on equipment purchases, legal and licensing steps, all that stuff. Might be worth a look.

 

[Xernex]

I agree with most of the sentiments given here, but knowing your actual location, or at least relatively in NC could help quite a bit - around the Triangle area a ton of breweries are opening up, and there's a ton of awesome people that may be able to help you out/steer the right ways. Not to mention let us know so the other carolinians can get excited.

 

[Norselord]

Ok, been home brewing for a year now; I've made 25 batches, most recently moved up to 10 gallon batches (the beer goes fast, we entertain a lot at my place and my friends, family, and I really like the stuff). I'm not a great brewer by any stretch, I know. I'm still following other people's recipes, even if I've begun to alter them a bit to serve my needs. But every time I drink a beer it makes me happy and why shouldn't I be able to do this?

Pros-
- I am is a competent microbiologist (so I understand sanitization and have no trouble keeping yeast happy) and I'm a guy who is pretty particular about process and quality control (I've most recently been running clinical labs for a living) so my batches have very little variation between them at this point
- As I've been running my own clinical labs for the last 10 years, I'm very comfortable navigating regulation and thriving in highly regulated environments
- Because I've always believed that truly good managers lead from the front, I've always learned every process and done every job in every business I've ever started; I know how to run a team of 400-500 people and get results from sales, marketing, HR, ops, production, etc...so I can run a business
- I'm just finishing up selling my last lab assets to a competitor, so I'm very liquid and will shortly be very unemployed; I'm 43, no way I'm ready to retire, and I've got the dough to get rolling and it won't change my lifestyle
- I'm absolutely psyched about this, and this is the third time I've ever felt this empassioned about a new business; the last two were tremendously successful because it's very easy to kick ass at what you love, I know I can crush this

Cons-
- my beer is good, not great
- I don't know what I don't know; I need legal representation, a damn good brewer, etc...

I've got some ideas about what to do next, but does anyone have any suggestions? Anyone know some good attorneys who're sharp on this subject in NC?

Thanks!

I think the best way to make a small fortune in brewing is to start with a large fortune.

What's your market?
Have you ever developed a business plan?
How much money can you afford to lose?
What's your competition?

every time I drink a beer it makes me happy

If you really are liquid and don't need to work, i highly recommend you take an internship at a local brewery to get a feel for the environment. Work in the trenches for a year and gauge your enthusiasm afterwards.

 

[Mdsutton]

Ok, been home brewing for a year now; I've made 25 batches, most recently moved up to 10 gallon batches (the beer goes fast, we entertain a lot at my place and my friends, family, and I really like the stuff). I'm not a great brewer by any stretch, I know. I'm still following other people's recipes, even if I've begun to alter them a bit to serve my needs. But every time I drink a beer it makes me happy and why shouldn't I be able to do this?

Pros-
- I am is a competent microbiologist (so I understand sanitization and have no trouble keeping yeast happy) and I'm a guy who is pretty particular about process and quality control (I've most recently been running clinical labs for a living) so my batches have very little variation between them at this point
- As I've been running my own clinical labs for the last 10 years, I'm very comfortable navigating regulation and thriving in highly regulated environments
- Because I've always believed that truly good managers lead from the front, I've always learned every process and done every job in every business I've ever started; I know how to run a team of 400-500 people and get results from sales, marketing, HR, ops, production, etc...so I can run a business
- I'm just finishing up selling my last lab assets to a competitor, so I'm very liquid and will shortly be very unemployed; I'm 43, no way I'm ready to retire, and I've got the dough to get rolling and it won't change my lifestyle
- I'm absolutely psyched about this, and this is the third time I've ever felt this empassioned about a new business; the last two were tremendously successful because it's very easy to kick ass at what you love, I know I can crush this

Cons-
- my beer is good, not great
- I don't know what I don't know; I need legal representation, a damn good brewer, etc...

I've got some ideas about what to do next, but does anyone have any suggestions? Anyone know some good attorneys who're sharp on this subject in NC?

Thanks!

I have read some of the responses and it seems many people did not read what you wrote.

I wish I knew of an attorney to point you to. I wish you luck in this, and may have to stop in for a beer once you are up and running!

Martin

 

[augiedoggy]

Im in the same boat with a brewing buddy.. we even purchased a couple 6 barrel kettles already because the price was right... Finding the right building in the right neighborhood with the right zoning and price has not been easy... then there's the fact that you have to sit on this building for upwards of 2 years sometimes waiting for all the paperwork to clear and approval to brew.

 

[MuddyCreek]

Starting a new brewery is an exciting prospect to be sure.

It sounds as though you have a pretty good idea of where you want to be eventually, but realize you need some solid guidance about how to get there. I would suggest that you start by investigating your local state laws. You don't need a lawyer for that. You can contact your state's brewer's association and begin gathering information. You can also contact your city zoning people and determine what parameters exist for a brewery.

(You wouldn't believe how many rules are out there about where you can put a brewery and where you CAN'T put a brewery.) When going about licensing, there's a tiered process. You need federal, state and local sign-off. Ironically, you can't get Federal sign-off until you get state sign-off and you can't get state sign-off until you get local sign-off. Most people fail to realize this. They focus so much on the federal regulations they forget to get their local zoning and safety stuff taken care of and it causes unnecessary delays in their licensing.

BUT - even before you dive into ALL that you should do some market research. Are there already breweries in your area? How many? How big are they? How many taverns are there? How many restaurants are near where you "want" to put your brewery? How big do you want to start out? How much are you looking at for rent? What kind of equipment do you think you'll need? How much do you realistically think you'll be able to sell in a taproom? How much do you expect you'll be able to distribute in the first year? How many people will you employ? How much toilet paper do you need?

As you've apparently started up some businesses already this is probably not new to you, but the "brewing side" is the smallest part of the "brewery" business. You'll need a business plan that deals with everything from equipment to staffing to raw materials to marketing to surviving down months and competing with other breweries and taverns.

New Belgium started as a small brewery at a time when there weren't literally thousands of breweries in the country and hundreds of new ones starting up every month. Now you need a very solid plan and a good and clear way forward that gives you a viable chance to succeed. The truth is the brewery bug has caught everyone by storm and now everybody is very eager to open a successful brewery, and with good reason. More and more people are truly enjoying excellent craft beer and MBC are seeing their share of the market continually drop.

However, the craft brewing market is continually becoming more and more competitive. That's something a person really needs to plan for and consider carefully. I'm always excited about people planning to open a brewery and follow their dreams. However I want them to be successful. And the only way to do that is obviously through very thorough front end planning.

We retained a lawyer right after we built a business plan based on all of Montana's brewery sales as well as tavern sales for the last 5 years based on reports from our Montana Brewer's Association. We further broke down the market in our town and determined whether or not our population could support a 2nd brewery. (It turned out that 3 new breweries including us opened immediately. Since then one has failed.) We were able to predict monthly sales trends and projections and figure out what we would need to do for taproom sales as well as distribution goals.

With that information we were able to finance our brewery and get started, but it's still been difficult. We have to compete aggressively with the other 2 breweries in town as well as the other 58 breweries in the state. Attempting to get our label distributed is challenging as Montana has some of the best craft beer in the country as evidenced at the GABF and the awards given out. You've got to be on your game.

However if you can produce a great environment for your customers, give them excellent service and a good product that they enjoy and work your way into reliable, consistent distribution you can succeed. It will likely take you some time to get to New Belgium status unless you have several million dollars to invest in your brewery and some very experienced brewing, cellaring, marketing and management staff to help you. If you are patient and make good beer however, you can certainly get there.

 

[craigh2011]

Tons of good info on here- thanks so much!

I'm in Raleigh, NC. I have a meeting with a law firm that specializes in getting folks set up here in Raleigh on Friday. I understand that the market is getting more competitive, but that's any market, and I'm accustomed to distinguishing myself in a commodity market.

Sisnce there are few in the crowd who seem to be interested in doing what I'm doing someday I'll share my progress in this thread. Even better for me, there seems to be a few of you who've been there, done that, so if you stay tuned please feel free to jump in and stop me from stepping on my own foreskin should you see me about to do something stupid, lol.

Really, I don't see the taproom as being much more than a diversion compared to the money made in distribution; there are plenty of them around here, they may stay packed, they may dwindle as competition continues to mount, but I think the real money is isn't there so I'm less worried about local competition and more interested in getting my product in restaurants and beer coolers.

Does that make sense to those of you already in business?

Also, definitely not looking to turn a large fortune into a small fortune, but if it takes a few MM to get the right beer running at a profit and I can grow from there, that's fine- it takes money to make money, and I don't do shortcuts nor will I turn out anything I'm not 100% proud of. I need a job folks- dont get me wrong, I need to run a business that is a proper going concern and not a money pit, but I also need to build something I can be proud of and keep running for years to come because I go bat**** crazy when I sit idle for more than a few days.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[craigh2011]

Edited-

 

[dye4me]

I took a hobby of love and turned it into a business about 12 years ago. I made lots of money, lost lots of money, had a few laughs and had a few cries. At the end of it all what upsets me to this day is about 6 years in, my love for the hobby faded and still to this day has never returned. In fact the death of that hobby in my life is what lead me to build a 10 gal keggle system about 7 years ago.

If you can see yourself wanting to be deeply involved with beer production and never getting the chance to roll up your sleeves and mash one out again then the brewery game might be for you. But if its something you love doing yourself and never want to loose that, don't go down the road less traveled.

 

[Xernex]

Tons of good info on here- thanks so much!

I'm in Raleigh, NC. I have a meeting with a law firm that specializes in getting folks set up here in Raleigh on Friday. I understand that the market is getting more competitive, but that's any market, and I'm accustomed to distinguishing myself in a commodity market.

Sisnce there are few in the crowd who seem to be interested in doing what I'm doing someday I'll share my progress in this thread. Even better for me, there seems to be a few of you who've been there, done that, so if you stay tuned please feel free to jump in and stop me from stepping on my own foreskin should you see me about to do something stupid, lol.

Really, I don't see the taproom as being much more than a diversion compared to the money made in distribution; there are plenty of them around here, they may stay packed, they may dwindle as competition continues to mount, but I think the real money is isn't there so I'm less worried about local competition and more interested in getting my product in restaurants and beer coolers.

Does that make sense to those of you already in business?

Also, definitely not looking to turn a large fortune into a small fortune, but if it takes a few MM to get the right beer running at a profit and I can grow from there, that's fine- it takes money to make money, and I don't do shortcuts nor will I turn out anything I'm not 100% proud of. I need a job folks- dont get me wrong, I need to run a business that is a proper going concern and not a money pit, but I also need to build something I can be proud of and keep running for years to come because I go bat**** crazy when I sit idle for more than a few days.

Thanks again for your help!

Awesome news - Please do keep us all informed in this thread, or a brewery build thread if you have time/want to. I'm totally excited for you, and for the rest of us in the Raleigh area that may get to experience what you end up building for us to enjoy. I'd love to know more about the business and keep updated. Heck I'd even volunteer to help in any way I could - though I'm not sure how much help I'd be, but I'm damned curious.

 

[rmchair]

Want to brew with no recipes, eh? That should work based on all the restaurants I see where nobody knows how to cook.
Seriously though, stop using kits and start chewing grains.
Beer law is very specialized. Just Google.

 

[Norselord]

Craig,

If you think you might ever need a small chlorine dioxide generator to wash your yeast, treat your influent water, or for use as a no-rinse sanitizer in your bottling plant; give me a shout.

 

[MuddyCreek]

You may find that a taproom is a very warm and friendly place.

Distribution is great, but young breweries make a good chunk of change in the taproom and they build their reputation there. I wouldn't discount the opportunities and benefit of a thriving taproom environment too quickly. Furthermore, you will find that your "tank gets filled" when you see people truly enjoying your products in your taproom and having a good time with a band and their good friends.