I bought a kegging system! Any advice?

[Jsmith82]

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/kegg...c-single-tap-draft-system-w-pin-lock-keg.html

Should be here Wednesday, I bought the system while debating how to carb up my 2012 120min IPA - figured what the hell, it was long overdue.

Came with:
- One Pin Lock reconditioned 5 gallon stainless steel keg (22" Tall x 8.75" diameter.)
- A dual gauge regulator that tells you how much pressure you have on the keg as well as how much CO2 you have left in the CO2 tank
- A hand held tap
- All necessary hoses and fittings.
- 5 lb New Aluminum CO2 tank

I've been reading up and feel pretty good about setting it up and moving on to kegging my beer instead of bottling (very VERY VERY excited about not bottling 5 gallons every time I brew), however I haven't found a lot of DO / DON'T around. If any of you home brew kegging professionals out there want to share some common mistakes I should look out for, or good hobby practices, recommendations, please do. I will do something wrong inevitably but preventing as much as possible sounds like a pretty good idea!

I'm pretty amped, can't wait to make the move official!

Oh, and it has already been suggested that the first thing I should do is buy more kegs because A) I probably won't want to go back to bottles and B) How fast will one actually go through a keg of 16% IPA

Cheers!

 

[TopherM]

Here's my kegging procedure:

Seal the keg at 30 PSI for about 1-2 hours. Purge the O2 from the keg with a quick pull of the relief valve once it is initially on the gas. Sometimes I'll also spray a bit of starsan around the ring of the top once it is on the 30 PSI gas, just to make sure it doesn't have any slow leaks, which would create bubbles in the starsan.

Trust me, nothing sucks worse than going through a 5lb CO2 tank overnight because you didn't check for slow leaks in your keg seal.

After I'm sure the 30 PSI seal is good to go, dial it down to your target PSI. You can figure out the proper PSI to style using this calculator:

http://www.brewheads.com/forcecarb.php

For most brews, I just set it to 12 PSI, which creates about 2.3-2.5 atmospheres on my system, which is in the style range for most ales.

NOTE, the easiest way to make for CERTAIN you are back down to your target PSI from the 30 is to completely take the post off the keg when recalibrating/dialing down. If not, the pressure valve will also factor the keg pressure into the reading, and you could actually be quite a bit high, leading to overcarbing. I take the gas connect off the keg, purge the keg to release the pressure in the keg, calibrate the CO2 back down to 12 or whatever, hook it back to the keg, purge again to equalize everything, then tweak the pressure, if needed.

Then, just leave the pressure on the keg for about 7 days, and it'll be good to go. You can also go ahead and serve at this pressure without issue, if the length of your lines is correct for the dimensions of your kegorator (typically about 10 ft of 3/8" inner diameter lines). If you don't have a typical home kegorator, you may need to find a calculator that tells you how long and diameter your keg lines need to be to keep the pressure in the lines balanced and reduce foaming.

What NOT to do is follow all of that advise of how to carb more quickly, including the high pressure for extended time, shaking the keg, etc. Yes, they work, but they are VERY inexact sciences, and every time I tried any of these techniques I ended up overcarbed with a carbic acid bite that I had to wait to condition out, which meant my "quick carb" ended up taking longer than if I had just followed the proper technique.

Just be patient and factor in the 7 days to carb at serving pressure and you'll never have overcarb issues.

Good luck!

 

[geer537]

Best advice I could give beyond any of the above post- ALWAYS clean the dip tube. I didn't realize that for the first couple of batches in a keg and got some pretty off flavors.

 

[BryceL]

Make sure you clean the reconditioned keg really well with oxyclean or pbw. Take apart all the posts/poppets, relief valve etc. as well. Most of the used kegs have soda residue left in them. Then of course sanitize it before filling.

 

[Darwin18]

Second the set and forget method. Set the keg at serving pressure and temperature and walk away for a couple weeks. Guarantee we won't be seeing you posting in the Bottling/Kegging section about how your beer is to foamy because you blasted it with C02 and shook the hell out of it.

 

[GASoline71]

Get the sticky-as-all-getout keg seal goop. It's a ***** to get off your fingers... but works fantastic on the keg o-rings.

Gary

 

[TopherM]

Get the sticky-as-all-getout keg seal goop

A little secret is the O-Ring seal they market for homebrew is the same stuff as the O-Ring seal they market for pool pumps. I paid $12.00 for the pool pump stuff only to realize that it is just silicone gel, which is about $2.00 at Home Depot, so lay off the "homebrew" marketed stuff and just go pick up some silicone gel.

 

[mappler]

Buy more kegs. You will need more than 1.
I bought 2 to start. Then 2 more. Then 2 more. In the market for at least 2 more.

 

[kapbrew13]

Try to buy the same kind of kegs ( pin vs ball lock). Less mixing and matching of parts. Disconnects are different.

Make sure the 5 orings are new and don't smell like soda.

Find a couple places close to you that will fill co2. Some fill and some exchange. I've also bought extra co2 tanks. Hate running out on Saturdays. No where to get filled by me.

 

[chickypad]

I'm another fan of the set and forget method - I never have problems getting the proper carb level this way. My beer can usually do with another week or two of conditioning anyway since the only secondaries I use are the kegs.

One thing about the second gauge, it will tell you the pressure in the tank but not really give you an idea of the gas left. You will see it will read steady then all of a sudden drop to zero and you are out. As I understand it the gas expands to fill the space left so it's more a function of temperature. A better way to tell is by weight of the tank - if you know the tare weight of your tanks and the weight of the regulator you can subtract to get the amount of gas left.

 

[Special Hops]

Get longer beer lines. Start with about 12 feet each. The one I got came with about 5 foot lines and I got nothing but foam until I replaced them with longer lines.

 

[Jsmith82]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Thanks guys!

I called my LHBS yesterday, they sell empties both ball and pin lock so I can stick to the same keg type, they also refill CO2 at I think she said about 20 bucks a charge.

About the line length, does that really come in to play if I "set it and forget it" hitting the beer with a lower pressure for longer? If so can anybody offer up a reason why shorter lines lead to a foamy beer?

*EDIT* I just realized I can finally keg a batch of Apfelwein. Oh yes... Ohhhhhhhhh yes............

 

[mappler]

The reason the length of the beer line is important is to provide resistance to the beer as it comes down the line. A longer beer line will result in the pour being slower at the faucet. The longer your beer lines, the more resistance they provide, the more CO2 will stay in the beer.

You could also manipulate the speed of the pour by manipulating the pressure. However, you would then be affecting the carbonation level of the beer. Too low and you would eventually under carb. Too high and you would over carb. So, you need a way to keep the pressure at the right setting for the beer in the keg, while getting the right pour speed at the faucet.

This site gives you a formula to calculate the length of lines you need for your beer. A little overkill for most people, but nice to understand the science behind it:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/0...our-kegged-beer-co2-line-length-and-pressure/

 

[Jsmith82]

Great link, Mappler - thank you

 

[geer537]

And here is a link to a calculator for beer line length

 

[BryceL]

Another vote for the longer beer lines. My keg kit came with 5' lines and I had trouble with the first two kegs I poured. I then switched to longer lines and it's perfect now. I run 10' lines and my psi is almost always set to 12.

 

[geer537]

One more quick thought on this- get the quick disconnects for the beer line that look like this (Flared). It costs a bit more because you have to buy the screw on adapter (flared fittings) to connect the beer line to the disconnect but in the long run you'll be able to clean your beer lines faster and easier. The other way is to cut lines or pull them off but I find it to be a PITA and once I set up these, I was able to keep my lines clean much easier.

I am using 3/16" tubing at 10'. I have the standard Sanyo kegorater that can hold a commercial 15 gl keg but I converted it hold three 5 gl corny kegs (Ball lock fits 3, pin locks will only fit 2). I find the 10 ' length and 3/16" combo works great but looks a bit messy on the inside.

 

[Jsmith82]

Just confirmed the LHBS sells the lines at 0.49 a foot. I'll run by there this weekend and pickup a couple of 10 foot cuts - good looking out everyone, thank you again for all the insight.

 

[GASoline71]

A little secret is the O-Ring seal they market for homebrew is the same stuff as the O-Ring seal they market for pool pumps. I paid $12.00 for the pool pump stuff only to realize that it is just silicone gel, which is about $2.00 at Home Depot, so lay off the "homebrew" marketed stuff and just go pick up some silicone gel.

Kewl! great tip!

Gary

 

[40watt]

I swear the portable kit I just bought came with 3 ft of 1/4 ID beer line and a cobra tap. The seller insists this will work fine...I am sceptical.

 

[Rivenin]

you can get the same line at lowes for i think 0.19 cents a foot FWIW. i use it and have never noticed an off flavor

 

[geer537]

I swear the portable kit I just bought came with 3 ft of 1/4 ID beer line and a cobra tap. The seller insists this will work fine...I am sceptical.

Check out what can be done about short hoses if it causes issues:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/cure-your-short-hose-troubles-100151/

There is a difference between 1/4" and 3/16" but I am just not finding the definable answer. It's in the pressure drop. Three Feet seems kinda short. Hopefully someone else can chime in with a good answer of the 1/4" vs 3/16" debate.

Here's a fun post on tastes that kal reported with different beer lines.

 

[Special Hops]

I swear the portable kit I just bought came with 3 ft of 1/4 ID beer line and a cobra tap. The seller insists this will work fine...I am sceptical.

I had a cobra tap with a short line when I first started and I worked fine no problem. I think the inner diameter of that tubing is much smaller and slow it down enough.

When I switched to a tower with short lines is when I had the problem.

 

[40watt]

I had a cobra tap with a short line when I first started and I worked fine no problem. I think the inner diameter of that tubing is much smaller and slow it down enough.

When I switched to a tower with short lines is when I had the problem.

Good to know.

 

[Jsmith82]

Looks like the gas line is 4ft and the serving line is 5ft. Everything was intact and brand new minus the keg of course..

I'm tossing 3 more ounces in my 120 this afternoon then next Friday, keg time! Feeling pretty good about everything now, just a little concerned about finding that proper balance of pressure for the lines but the information you guys posted definitely helps!

 

[brewski08]

Here's my kegging procedure:

Seal the keg at 30 PSI for about 1-2 hours. Purge the O2 from the keg with a quick pull of the relief valve once it is initially on the gas. Sometimes I'll also spray a bit of starsan around the ring of the top once it is on the 30 PSI gas, just to make sure it doesn't have any slow leaks, which would create bubbles in the starsan.

Trust me, nothing sucks worse than going through a 5lb CO2 tank overnight because you didn't check for slow leaks in your keg seal.

After I'm sure the 30 PSI seal is good to go, dial it down to your target PSI. You can figure out the proper PSI to style using this calculator:

http://www.brewheads.com/forcecarb.php

For most brews, I just set it to 12 PSI, which creates about 2.3-2.5 atmospheres on my system, which is in the style range for most ales.

NOTE, the easiest way to make for CERTAIN you are back down to your target PSI from the 30 is to completely take the post off the keg when recalibrating/dialing down. If not, the pressure valve will also factor the keg pressure into the reading, and you could actually be quite a bit high, leading to overcarbing. I take the gas connect off the keg, purge the keg to release the pressure in the keg, calibrate the CO2 back down to 12 or whatever, hook it back to the keg, purge again to equalize everything, then tweak the pressure, if needed.

Then, just leave the pressure on the keg for about 7 days, and it'll be good to go. You can also go ahead and serve at this pressure without issue, if the length of your lines is correct for the dimensions of your kegorator (typically about 10 ft of 3/8" inner diameter lines). If you don't have a typical home kegorator, you may need to find a calculator that tells you how long and diameter your keg lines need to be to keep the pressure in the lines balanced and reduce foaming.

What NOT to do is follow all of that advise of how to carb more quickly, including the high pressure for extended time, shaking the keg, etc. Yes, they work, but they are VERY inexact sciences, and every time I tried any of these techniques I ended up overcarbed with a carbic acid bite that I had to wait to condition out, which meant my "quick carb" ended up taking longer than if I had just followed the proper technique.

Just be patient and factor in the 7 days to carb at serving pressure and you'll never have overcarb issues.

Good luck!

carbic acid you say? so THAT'S what that taste in my homebrew is! i thought i was always extracting tannins during my sparge.

you learn more and more everyday

 

[brewski08]

Looks like the gas line is 4ft and the serving line is 5ft. Everything was intact and brand new minus the keg of course..

I'm tossing 3 more ounces in my 120 this afternoon then next Friday, keg time! Feeling pretty good about everything now, just a little concerned about finding that proper balance of pressure for the lines but the information you guys posted definitely helps!

solid!

my tip:

when connecting your CO2 tank to your regulator, make sure you use a washer, and i would highly recommend attaching tightly using a wrench. thought i could beat the system by disregarding the washer between the regulator and CO2 tank and simply using my hands to tighten 'er...after leaking CO2 everywhere, i realized i was wrong

 

[Special Hops]

Just start with long lines - longer then you think you need. I started with 12 foot lines. Then if it pours too slow cut a foot off at a time until it's right.

 

[wmarkw]

How does this set up compare to the corney keg thing? I'm a complete noob to kegging and for this price I think I would like to try it out. A lot of great input in this thread. Dumb question though; once you force carb your keg/beer and let it sit for the 7 days do you unhook your C02 or does it need to stay attached at all times?

 

[geer537]

Once you force carb your keg/beer and let it sit for the 7 days do you unhook your C02 or does it need to stay attached at all times?

It would need to stay attached. I use the set it and forget it method. I don't particularly like green beer so I will set all of my kegs at serving pressure and forget about it. Once the beer is carb'd it's usually conditioned. Some darker beers have taken longer to be just right though.

 

[Jsmith82]

How does this set up compare to the corney keg thing? I'm a complete noob to kegging and for this price I think I would like to try it out.

Factor in your shipping costs and it was just at 180.00, definitely a worthy investment.

Asked earlier in the thread, as for a "kegerator", I do have an old beer fridge in my brew-cave that I use to lager and cold crash beers, store hops, etc:

Come fall it tends to be a full house in there but the keg fits perfectly and the fridge holds right about 36-38 degrees - Topher, using the brewheads calculator link you posted it looks like I'm right with you guys with a suggested constant PSI of 11-12.

As for the washer suggestion on the screw connections, I was planning on using plumbers tape - would a rubber grommit / washer be better in this case or would either suffice?

Again, lots of great input here guys and I do appreciate the little tips and hints, come next Friday in the simplest terms I'm planning on the following - please let me know if I'm missing any steps:

- clean and sanitize everything, rack my beer
- hook up everything, hit the keg at 30psi for an hour plus
- after confirming we are without leaks, pull the gas line off the keg, purge, reconnect and set the PSI to my suggested serving pressure of 11-12, purge, leave it be

Is there a calculator out there you guys use that can distinguish proper carbonation for beer types using a keg? For instance, the 120 I'm going to run with, this is a huge beer with a massive OG, finished at 1.014. Would I need to take anything different into consideration when force carbonating this than I would if I brewed up a simple 5% hefe?