grain mixup :( NEVER MIND, USER ERROR on author's part

[Hoochin'Fool]

Anyone know which is the REAL "Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt"?

On the left, is some I just bagged myself at the NB store. In the middle is some that I got from Ritebrew back in November. And on the right, is some Weyermann chocolate rye, that I also just bagged myself at the NB store! I chomped a couple grains of the middle and right, and would be hard pressed to describe any difference between them - both just taste burnt and a little ashy.

What's weird, is Ritebrew doesn't even SELL chocolate rye! And what's annoying, is I've made some really tasty beers with the (middle) mystery grain, and I'm not sure I'll be able to replicate them now. At any rate, if my hunch is correct, and middle and right are both chocolate rye, then chocolate rye adds a real "are you sure there's no actual chocolate in this beer" note, to my palate at least. But now I have no clue what Fawcett Pale Chocolate is actually going to taste like in my recipes.

 

[day_trippr]

I would believe the leftmost pile is in fact Fawcett Pale Chocolate, given this image from NB:

That said, the chocolate malts I buy (typically Briess) for my chocolate stout always look waaay darker than that, with Lovibond in the 350 range or higher...

Cheers!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I would believe the leftmost pile is in fact Fawcett Pale Chocolate, given this image from NB:

Agreed.

That said, the chocolate malts I buy (typically Briess) for my chocolate stout always look waaay darker than that, with Lovibond in the 350 range or higher...

Chocolate Rye is listed at 190-300 Lovibond (shouldn't that be SRM?) on NB's website... And I sure think the middle looks damn near like the one on the right (which I bagged myself, and is indeed "Weyermann Chocolate Rye").

Sent an email to Ritebrew asking if they might know what they actually sent -- hopefully I conveyed that I just wanted to be able get the SAME grain as the one they sent me the first time, no matter what it's named!

 

[IslandLizard]

I have Crisp Pale Chocolate, 200-250°L.
It's a deep medium brown, a fairly even color.
I'd say a tad darker and more reddish brown than the left one in your sample. And maybe not quite as rich and vivid as @day_trippr's first image, but that could be due to lighting and image enhancement.

Fawcett's Pale Chocolate allegedly is 185-250°L so that will be close to Crisp's.

Chocolate malts are much darker (deep, dark brown) than Pale Chocolate ones. 300°L and up.

SRM = (1.3546 x °L) - 0.76

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

In my day job, I have a laptop + two monitors. Color is noticeably different across the three displays. As always, YMMV.

@Hoochin'Hank : I have Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt from RiteBrew in the basement home brew store. The color does not match what's on the left in the image you uploaded. I don't have chocolate rye in the basement, so I won't speculate on "middle" vs "right".

To me, within the limits of the images you uploaded and the images that I'm seeing, my "best guess' is that the middle image is "pale chocolate".

If your tavels to the Twin Cites allow you to "chew on a couple of grains" at a NB/Midwest store in the next couple of months, bring along some of the existing malts compare.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Ritebrew's closed until Monday, but their website has this for Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt: 806509 - Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt - per lb. and it says it is 180L. That picture looks a helluva lot darker than 200 if you ask me, and the individual grains are quite a bit smaller than the ones I got from NB...

I should add, that the Pale Chocolate I bagged up at NB tastes completely different from the Ritebrew mystery pale chocolate. No burnt/ash at all (which both the Ritebrew pale choc and Weyermann chocolate rye had).

I suppose best option is to brew up two very small batches and compare that way.

 

[AlexKay]

Chiming in to say that chocolate rye is definitely my go-to for “I can’t believe there’s no chocolate” flavor for my beer. Pair with crystal rye and Phoenix hops to magnify the effect…

 

[IslandLizard]

Another thought...
Rye kernels are quite a bit smaller than barley, that could also help in determining the grain variety used.

Now I don't know what malting, kilning and roasting does to final kernel size, but it may well be proportional to the original sizes.

Ritebrew's closed until Monday, but their website has this for Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt: 806509 - Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate Malt - per lb. and it says it is 180L. That picture looks a helluva lot darker than 200 if you ask me,

It does, way too dark.
Possibly a bad picture or a wrongly inserted picture.

I must say, your grains in heap #2 and #3 look very similar in shape, size, and color.
If they taste very much alike they may well be the same.

Another possible is bags got mixed up somewhere and Ritebrew ended up with chocolate rye, unaware of it.

You could hot steep (150-170F) some of those crushed grains and compare the elixirs.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Good idea on the hot steep, will do that tonight! Thanks!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Ritebrew replied:

>The color varies a bit, but the grain on the left is far lighter than Fawcett pale chocolate should ever be. That looks like a light crystal malt.

I don't think it looks like a light crystal, looks right in between some (briess) cara60 and cara120... Aroma and taste-wise, the NB Pale Chocolate does indeed seem much closer to a cara60. Hmmm, mystery deepens!

Will report back after I do a hot steep...

 

[IslandLizard]

Good idea on the hot steep, will do that tonight! Thanks!

I've been steeping dark roasted malts by themselves at 150F (mash temps!) outside the kettle for 20-30 minutes. That's what I recommend for these tastings too.

After straining and a sparge the dark potion is then added to the wort after the boil, when chilled to between 170-160F. Let stand for 10-15 minutes to pasteurize, before chilling down to ferm temps.

 

[tracer bullet]

I use Pale Chocolate often in stouts, and also shop typically at Midwest, so...

I'd say what's on the left is too light. Pale Chocolate is very brown, typically what I buy is in between what's on the left and what's in the middle, but closer to the middle than the left.

I'm also sure it varies form one company to the next. Something from TF, or Briess, or another company will almost certainly have different colors.

If anything I think your NB sample is the one that's off, and the Ritebrew in the middle is maybe a bit too dark but maybe not if it simply tends to be on the darker end of the spectrum.

The Chocolate on the right is the same story, one maltster will have super dark brown, another nearing black.

Pale chocolate to me isn't really very chocolate flavored, it's more... burnt toast, or toasted nuts.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

So I zipped up a table-spoon of each grain in the coffee grinder, added 1 oz of hot (170F) water and let them steep for 20 mins. (I thoroughly wiped out the dust between each batch).

The NB "pale chocolate" wasn't at all sweet, so I wouldn't think it could be a cara/crystal. No roast, no coffee, no chocolate. Don't know enough about grains to describe it, just kinda vaguely malty. If that's really what Fawcett Pale Chocolate tastes like, I dunno what the appeal would be.

The Ritebrew "pale chocolate" made a quite dark solution. Tiny hint of coffee, mild roast, maybe a small note of chocolate, if I really search for it.

The NB "chocolate rye" was a touch darker than the Ritebrew "pale chocolate". Very similar to the Ritebrew pale chocolate, just ever so slightly "more" of the flavors noted above: touch more coffee, touch more roast, maaaybe a little chocolate.

So my palate isn't very refined. I'm definitely not buying any more "pale chocolate" from Northern Brewer!

Going to let them keep soaking for a while, and try them again.

Meanwhile, decided to check some other websites for pictures of "Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate malt"...
Morebeer's picture is just a sack (doh!)
First Amazon link I saw, Amazon.com: Thomas Fawcett & Sons Pale Chocolate Malt - 1 LB, Uncrushed : Grocery & Gourmet Food looks VERY much like Ritebrew's!
Love2Brew has Crisp pale chocolate, and it too looks very much like Ritebrew's
GrapeAndGranary.com has a pic, but there's no way that is any sort of roasted malt
AtlanticBrewSupply.com has a pic, it's labeled as "Thomas Fawcett Pale Chocolate" and it looks just like Ritebrew's.

So anyways, I'm going to assume NB goofed.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I use Pale Chocolate often in stouts, and also shop typically at Midwest, so...

If ya think of it next time you're in there, would appreciate an update!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

well this is embarrassing, but I'm leaning towards NEVER MIND, I was being stupid (again), and put the wrong label on the wrong bag. One of the other bags, which I also labeled as "Fawcett Pale Chocolate" looks 100% identical to the last of my Ritebrew "Fawcett Pale Chocolate".

 

[DBhomebrew]

Another tell tale, didn't see it mentioned above, chocolate rye has no husk.