Firestone Walker Wookey Jack Clone Attempt

[NWMushroom]

You will probably be fine without adjusting the temp, getting down to the FG can be tricky without a lot of really healthy yeast and oxygen.

I brewed this up again on 2/7 and used Conan yeast (harvested from Heady Topper). It is bubbling away. My boil off wasn't as good as normal, ended about 5-7 points shy and at 6.3g. I got a new pot, so will need to adjust for that. I am considering adding a half pound of sugar to primary (boiled to a syrup) to help with the ABV and dry it out, however from what I have read the Conan is a beast.

I was thinking of using 1 fresh packet of S-04 and 1 older (expires 4/13) packet, rehydrated, with some yeast fuel in the boil and 60 seconds of pure oxygen when pitching.

I have a batch ready for bottling in a couple of days in which I used a 2L starter of WLP002 - unfortunately I fear the starter got infected, hence my eagerness to get another batch going.

I think there's something going amiss with my liquid starter process so I'm moving to dry until I can pinpoint it.

 

[NWMushroom]

What level of CO2 volume are people going for on this?

 

[eric19312]

I realized nobody had addressed this last night when I had the beer in my bottling bucket...went with 2.4 volumes based on googling reviews of the finished beer which tended to say moderate carbonation but a few noted importance of carbonation bite in the profile.

 

[theveganbrewer]

I like this carbonated medium-medium high, it makes it really pop.

 

[eric19312]

I like this carbonated medium-medium high, it makes it really pop.

Thanks,

Any chance you can put a number on medium-high? Too late for me, but would be nice to have that as part of the recipe for future bottle conditioners...

 

[Tava]

I do 2.5 on my carbonation. It does make this beer pop

 

[ilikeguns]

i am still in awe at how a hack like me can make a beer this good...

 

[eric19312]

I do 2.5 on my carbonation. It does make this beer pop

Thanks again. So my 2.4 guess should be ok!

 

[MeanDeuce]

I used 2.4 and it came out fantastic.

 

[ipsiad]

i am still in awe at how a hack like me can make a beer this good...

Ha! I felt the exact same way when I brewed it. It's astonishingly good.

 

[samandbekah]

Has anyone attempted to harvest the yeast straight from the bottle?

My fiance got me a half a dozen 22 ounce bottles for v-day and I'm going to attempt to harvest and brew this this weekend...

 

[theveganbrewer]

Has anyone attempted to harvest the yeast straight from the bottle?

My fiance got me a half a dozen 22 ounce bottles for v-day and I'm going to attempt to harvest and brew this this weekend...

I think their house strain is WLP002, not sure it's worth all the work to harvest it.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I think their house strain is WLP002, not sure it's worth all the work to harvest it.

That's why I was gonna say. Is Wookey even bottle conditioned? I can't remember.

 

[samandbekah]

Grab a bottle when you guys get the chance. It's good stuff...

It's unfiltered and have read a few threads how people have had success with harvest yeast from unfiltered beers.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Grab a bottle when you guys get the chance. It's good stuff...

It's unfiltered and have read a few threads how people have had success with harvest yeast from unfiltered beers.

I realize it is good (this is my recipe...) Harvesting yeast is not something I do on readily availble yeast. It's not hard, but not really worth the time for something like WLP002 given the time, potential for infection, etc required to build up some already stressed (Wookey is over 8%) WLP002.

If I am harvesting, it is usually for sour bacteria and brett.

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

White Labs website says 002 has only 63%-70% attenuation. Fermentation is complete and my S.G. is 1.025, still very high (65%attenuation). This is in range of what the capabilities of the yeast are listed as, but it is still very sweet. Has anyone else had problems with finishing too high with this beer/yeast? All I have on hand is a pack of Nottingham, and I think I might throw it in and see what happens. Not sure what else would help.

 

[ilikeguns]

my first batch finished at 18, my second at 20. I think I underpitched the second batch and mashed the first one too high. I also don't think I aerated enough if that helps.

Can you give some more details on your mash temps, starter etc?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

The key here is mash temp, yeast cell count and O2. I liked back and did hit 1.016 the first time without O2 or a huge starter (have bought a stir plate and oxygen since).

 

[Brutus Brewer]

I brought home a few bombers of Firestone Walker Wookey Jack from California recently, and man is it good. Unfortunately, FW isn't available in the Atlanta area, so I guess it is time to start working on a clone. What I do know:

From Firestone Walker's website:
Style: Unfiltered Black Rye IPA
ABV: 8.5%
Malts: Pale Malt, Malted Rye, Dash of Cara-Rye, Midnight Wheat from Briess, De-Bittered Black Malt (Weyermann - Germany/Patagonia malting - Chile), Dash of Wookey dust
Hops: German Magnum (bittering), Citra & Amarillo (flavor/aroma and double dry-hopped)

From craftbeer.com, the color is 45 SRM.

I read somewhere that someone degassed a bottle and the FG was 1.015. That would put the OG at 1.080 to get the 8.5%.

Some of the other FW clones, including the CYBI ones, use a 90 minute boil.

Firestone uses English yeast in a lot of their other beers, so I have chosen WLP002.

I may also try to send FW an email...does anyone know if they usually respond? Here is what I am thinking for right now, but it is just something I threw together quickly. Feedback would be appreciated. I probably won't be brewing this for at least a couple weeks, so have some time to make some modifications. :rockin:

**edit: I got some feedback from Matt from Firestone Walker and changed the recipe. He is a helluva guy, and they make great beer...go buy some

Brew Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 7.46 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Volume: 7.46 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.1 %
1.66 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 9.9 %
0.50 lb Cara-Rye (70.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 lb Wheat (Midnight) (550.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.50 oz Magnum [13.00%] (90 min) Hops 20.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (25 min) Hops 24.8 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (25 min) Hops 17.0 IBU
1.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min) Hops -
1.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop#1 3 days) Hops -remove then add dryhop #2
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop#1 3 days) Hops -remove then add dryhop #2
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop #2 4 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop #2 4 days) Hops -

1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter 2500 ml]

Mash @ 145-148 for 60 min
Increase to 155 for 10 min, then sparge

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 39.6 SRM
Bitterness: 61.8 IBU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 8.6 %


Ferment at ~62 for 10 days.

Couldn't you use either midnight wheat or carafa 3 instead of both?

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

my first batch finished at 18, my second at 20. I think I underpitched the second batch and mashed the first one too high. I also don't think I aerated enough if that helps.

Can you give some more details on your mash temps, starter etc?

The key here is mash temp, yeast cell count and O2. I liked back and did hit 1.016 the first time without O2 or a huge starter (have bought a stir plate and oxygen since).

I mashed at 148 for 60 mins and brought it to 155F for 10mins. I made a 2.5L starter and hit the wort with pure O2 for 60 seconds and then pitched at 62F. My OG was 1.076. After fermentation started, I added 5g of Fermaid K nutrient. I feel like I did everything right but still low attenuation. S.G. 1.025

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Couldn't you use either midnight wheat or carafa 3 instead of both?

Just going off my conversation with Matt Brynildson....maybe the CIII add more roastiness?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I mashed at 148 for 60 mins and brought it to 155F for 10mins. I made a 2.5L starter and hit the wort with pure O2 for 60 seconds and then pitched at 62F. My OG was 1.076. After fermentation started, I added 5g of Fermaid K nutrient. I feel like I did everything right but still low attenuation. S.G. 1.025

Sounds good....when did you brew?

 

[ilikeguns]

I mashed at 148 for 60 mins and brought it to 155F for 10mins. I made a 2.5L starter and hit the wort with pure O2 for 60 seconds and then pitched at 62F. My OG was 1.076. After fermentation started, I added 5g of Fermaid K nutrient. I feel like I did everything right but still low attenuation. S.G. 1.025

Did you raise your temp after pitch? According to White Labs, optimum rate is 65-68 for 002.

Other than that, I just don't know.. seems like you did everything right?

 

[m00se]

I made a 2L starter with WLP002 without a stir plate and just strictly shaking. The vigorous fermentation that I experienced for 36hr was like nothing I had experienced before. I'm interested to see what the FG ends up at because I haven't experienced a serious fermentation like that before.

I hit an OG of 1.084 on the mash at 148. So we'll see.

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

I brewed on friday night(5 days ago). I went with 62F the whole time. After 48hours, all activity stopped and SG was 1.025. Three days later it was still the same. I think I might give it another week and throw in some dry yeast if things don't change. I'm sure it will be a fantastic beer regardless. Hydrometer sample tasted very sweet but excellent. It was so good I took another sample and drank that too.

 

[ilikeguns]

Like I said before.. my second batch is at 20 but i'm drinking it now and it's awesome. This recipe is my favorite i've brewed.

Next time, try fermenting at 64 and kick it up to the higher range to see if it attenuates better. I'm 3 days in on a FW Double Jack clone and am about to raise the temps tonight.

 

[SFBuff]

Did it as a Partial Mash with some slight modifications:
- WLP007 - I wanted it to attenuate/finish a little dryer than 002
- Carafa II rather than Carafa III (all that the LHBS had) so I upped the midnight wheat 2oz to get the color closer.

Should be a tasty brew. Thanks for the recipe.

 

[Ravenor]

Hi,
I have just a quick question.
Could I exchange the Midnight Wheat malt with some other malt.
Unfortunatly it seems that Briess malt is not being sold in Europe.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Martin

 

[AnthonyCB]

Hi,
I have just a quick question.
Could I exchange the Midnight Wheat malt with some other malt.
Unfortunatly it seems that Briess malt is not being sold in Europe.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Martin

Midnight Wheat is just Briess's name for Roasted Wheat. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding it over here. At least one of the English Maltsters makes it. Weyermann's Chocolate Wheat is also more or less the same thing.

 

[Ravenor]

Thanks for the quick response AnthonyCB.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Like I said before.. my second batch is at 20 but i'm drinking it now and it's awesome. This recipe is my favorite i've brewed.

Next time, try fermenting at 64 and kick it up to the higher range to see if it attenuates better. I'm 3 days in on a FW Double Jack clone and am about to raise the temps tonight.

yeah next time I brew mine I'm gonna try warming it up a bit. Mine stayed in the 64 degree range as well and its a little sweeter than I would like. Still damn tasty though.

 

[ipsiad]

I use this yeast (002/1968) a lot and while I love it, it's really finicky, and is definitely very sensitive to fermentation temp. If the temperature is too cool late in fermentation, it will quickly drop out without fermenting the beer all the way through. If your fermentation is stuck at 1.025, warm it up to ~70F and rouse the yeast cake, or if that doesn't work pitch a starter that's at high krausen.

Re: midnight wheat and dehusked Carafa III, these two grains are mainly just for their black color and just a little bit of flavor. To my palate, there is almost no roasted character in this beer. If either of these aren't available to you I'd just replace them with whatever debittered black malt you have access to.

 

[Tava]

Update on my split batch using s-04 and s-05.

My s-04 finished at 1.016
S-05 finished at 1.011

Bottled last week. Cant wait to do side by side taste test!

 

[BigRedHopHead]

Mine has been in the kegerator for 2 weeks. Brew date was 1/13/13. Followed the recipe exactly. my wlp002 was from a nut brown a month ago. mine finished at 1.015. A little sweeter than I prefer but everyone says it is quite smooth, roast, with a nice hop punch. The hop aroma is fading quickly. I will also up the bittering addition next time. for my tastes the bitterness isn't enough. All in all a very tasty brew and close to the original. I may try WY1056 next time.

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

I use this yeast (002/1968) a lot and while I love it, it's really finicky, and is definitely very sensitive to fermentation temp. If the temperature is too cool late in fermentation, it will quickly drop out without fermenting the beer all the way through. If your fermentation is stuck at 1.025, warm it up to ~70F and rouse the yeast cake, or if that doesn't work pitch a starter that's at high krausen.

Re: midnight wheat and dehusked Carafa III, these two grains are mainly just for their black color and just a little bit of flavor. To my palate, there is almost no roasted character in this beer. If either of these aren't available to you I'd just replace them with whatever debittered black malt you have access to.

I have it sitting at 67F right now. I'll test it in a few days and see if that worked.

 

[eric19312]

Picked up 2 bottles from brewtopia today so I can taste side by side with my first batch which will be ready march 3. Can't wai!

 

[samandbekah]

For all you successful brewers of Wookey clone...

How long are you aging it for? I am going to be brewing this tomorrow and I want to know what to expect for a time range... More specifically, I am going to keg it and want to know how long I should let it sit.

 

[ilikeguns]

For all you successful brewers of Wookey clone...

How long are you aging it for? I am going to be brewing this tomorrow and I want to know what to expect for a time range... More specifically, I am going to keg it and want to know how long I should let it sit.

Aging? I ain't got time for that. Two weeks in the bucket, rack to keg and force carb. I didn't want to lose any hop aroma.

 

[norsk]

Next up.. Firestone Walker Double Jack Clone

Let me know how your Double Jack comes out, it's my wife's favorite beer and our house IPA which we brew on a regular basis. Brewing the Wookey next week...

 

[gbarron]

Re: the stuck ferments and high FG with 002. I have not done this personally but heard of people having success by shaking the fermenter, racking to a secondary, then hitting it with O2 to get things going again.