Drinks3point2
Well-Known Member
Anyone ever used a submersible fountain pump to recirculate ice water through their wort chiller? I'm going to give it a try next batch. Wondering if anyone has had some good results with this idea.
closed system submers. wort chiller
- Thread starter Drinks3point2
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Well, you're going to need a lot of ice water.
Assuming no radiative cooling and an oversimplified thermodynamic model, the heat you're taking out of the wort will have to wind up in the ice water, or:
Q1 -Q2 = 0
5 gallons (18.9L) of wort at 373K being cooled to 293K has about 6.34E3 kJ of heat energy to loose. Assuming that you want to keep your ice water at 273K (maintaining a large delta T to decrease cooling time and facilitating cold break), you need to have enough ice to melt to "absorb" this energy. This works out to be about 19kg of ice, or around 42 lbs of ice. Can someone please check my math?
That is only the ice required to remove the heat from the wort to bring it down to around 70ish deg F. You will also need to add a bit of ice to bring the water you're planning on circulating down to the melting point. You could do it with less, but remember that your most effective cooling will happen when you maintain that large temperature difference. For the cost of 50+ lbs of ice, you're probably a lot better off using the hose.
I'm no expert, and I know that brewing is not an eco-friendly activity, but something else to consider is that the ice you would use has to be trucked to the store, then you have to drive it to your house. All the while it has to be kept cold. Like I said, I'm guessing on this part, but I suspect that you'd be a lot better off just running the hose.
Assuming no radiative cooling and an oversimplified thermodynamic model, the heat you're taking out of the wort will have to wind up in the ice water, or:
Q1 -Q2 = 0
5 gallons (18.9L) of wort at 373K being cooled to 293K has about 6.34E3 kJ of heat energy to loose. Assuming that you want to keep your ice water at 273K (maintaining a large delta T to decrease cooling time and facilitating cold break), you need to have enough ice to melt to "absorb" this energy. This works out to be about 19kg of ice, or around 42 lbs of ice. Can someone please check my math?
That is only the ice required to remove the heat from the wort to bring it down to around 70ish deg F. You will also need to add a bit of ice to bring the water you're planning on circulating down to the melting point. You could do it with less, but remember that your most effective cooling will happen when you maintain that large temperature difference. For the cost of 50+ lbs of ice, you're probably a lot better off using the hose.
I'm no expert, and I know that brewing is not an eco-friendly activity, but something else to consider is that the ice you would use has to be trucked to the store, then you have to drive it to your house. All the while it has to be kept cold. Like I said, I'm guessing on this part, but I suspect that you'd be a lot better off just running the hose.
Yes, I use a cheap sump pump from Harbor Freight. I start the process with house (hose) water until the wort gets to about 110° F. I then use ice with just enough water to prime the pump and recirculate that. I use about 20 pounds of ice with 10 gallon batches to get to ferm temp. Also keep in mind that you need to keep the wort in motion around the immersion coil.
http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php
http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2008
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 9
I do this all the time. I start out with the pump in our pool. In the winter when the pool is at about 50 degrees, I don't need any ice. In the summer when the water is 95+, I may need 30+ lbs. The Harbor Freight pump works great.
Drinks3point2
Well-Known Member
I have a small fountain pump and a short piece of garden hose that came with the brewing equipment I'm using. I figured I started out just running hose water through it (about 74 degrees) might as well try a cooler full of ice water and see what happens. You guys make it sound like it won't be nearly as effective as I had hoped.
What about a pre-chiller for your chiller? I was considering buying a copper coil from the hardware store and putting that in a cooler of ice water. That way the water from the house would go from 74 to say 35 before it enters the hot wort in the pot.
What about a pre-chiller for your chiller? I was considering buying a copper coil from the hardware store and putting that in a cooler of ice water. That way the water from the house would go from 74 to say 35 before it enters the hot wort in the pot.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2008
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 9
Running ice water through an IC is fast and effective, it just can use up a lot of ice. Pre chillers don't work as well (or so I've heard).
Drinks3point2
Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice. I've learned a ton from this website.
Drinks3point2
Well-Known Member
Tried the cooler, ice and pump out today. I live in a rural town without easy access to bags of ice. I used all that was in my ice maker in the freezer and 6 or so cold packs that come with the yeast in the mail and a handful of 10 oz frozen water bottles. The ice was next to gone in 5 to 10 minutes. next time I think I'll make a bunch more frozen water bottles and more ice and try again.
On a positive note, it did speed up the cooling process however it did not end up being a closed system.
On a positive note, it did speed up the cooling process however it did not end up being a closed system.
I'm very curious about how you accomplished your cooling process. You should have had more than enough ice to accomplish the chilling process. Did you use the ice/cold packs from the start? Or did you start your process with hose water to about 110°F before using the ice?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Drinks3point2
Well-Known Member
I used the ice water in the cooler right from the start. I was recirculating the water back to the cooler... mistake. It melted the ice way too quickly. I finally stopped recirculating the water when it was too late and changed to running hose water into the cooler first so that I was running hose water over the ice packs. Still using the fountain pump to move the water from the cooler through wort chiller and then onto the lawn. I was able to get my wort down to 77º in about 30 minutes.
Next time I will make more ice bottles and not recirc. the water in the beginning. I was hoping to use a lot less water by doing it this way. I think if I had the big cooler full of ice then maybe...
Next time I will make more ice bottles and not recirc. the water in the beginning. I was hoping to use a lot less water by doing it this way. I think if I had the big cooler full of ice then maybe...
I am having a similar thought to this idea. I mostly brew during winter in Wisconsin. I plan to use 5 gallon buckets half full of water and stick them outside a couple days before brew day. I will put my large container of water outside on brew day. I'm hoping that my giant ice cubes made outside and cold water will work great as a closed system ice bath immersion chiller with pump!
You'll do a lot better with smaller chunks of ice rather than large 3 gallon chunks. The surface area just isn't high enough to keep the water really cold. The other thing you can do is put a couple of full buckets outside brew day morning so that you end up with 5 gallons of water at 35F. As you run icewater through the chiller, don't put that really hot water back into the ice. Top it up with the 35F water.
