Brutus 10 BYO Plans Changes?

[Irrenarzt]

Some pics for that ferret guy on page 2 or so. No joining plates are needed with 8020. The hardware they sell cinches up real nice. They sell joining plates but are overkill, even under thermal and mechanical loads for this application.

Gas beam terminus with pressure gauge

HLT/Control panel

MT

Schitty iphone pic of Therminator but you can see the QD's

ASCO wiring conduit

Hop sack holder (don't use PVC fellas, it's ghetto and toxic)

updated ball valves

Phil and Bobby on Friday night for those who know

 

[insaneferret]

Nice rig - i was pricing out an 8020 system, but as it turns out its the same price to buy the steel and a welder, and at the end of the day, I'll have a welder, i'll have my system built by the end of the month, getting the steel today

 

[Irrenarzt]

Yeah it's only cost effective if you have it in stock already. I'm pretty much out now so I need to buy more as I'm gonna get around to building a grain mill stand one of these days.

 

[TrickyDick]

Irenarzt-

You didn't change the spacing of the Front-to-Rear of 12", just the side-to-side cross-bar spacing?

TD

 

[Ricand]

I'm just finishing up a double build with Ubermick. +1 on the gas beam, that gave us the biggest problems. If you aren't doing it out of pipe, seal the ends and pressure test the whole thing BEFORE welding it up to the frame. I had pin hole leaks into the cross members at the ends. I ended up cutting it off, capping the ends and then welding it back on. We shortened it a bit, since we are both shorter than Lonnie's armpit. We used 16 gauge stainless tubing for most of it and the 11 gauge Lonnie used for the gas beam. Ubermick has his set up for propane with banjo burners, mine is set up with impinged jet burners and natural gas. If you want the impinged jet burner, I got mine from http://www.topfoodservice.com (search jet burner) and they were ok. Trust me, all you need is the 6" version. The jet burners are easier to mount, but louder than the banjos. We haven't done a boil comparison yet.

 

[michaeltrego]

Sweet setup Irrenarzt! Totally jealous.

Off topic but pertaining to your last pic -- you got the Unbroken Chain that I was hoping for a few weeks ago in NH. We had a surprising Born Cross-Eyed, and nice Scarlet Fire among others. The boys are tight - smoking hot shows!

FYI - you can grab the audio for all the dates at: http://www.archive.org

 

[Irrenarzt]

Irenarzt-

You didn't change the spacing of the Front-to-Rear of 12", just the side-to-side cross-bar spacing?

TD

That's right, side to side only and it easily holds 3 full pots. The pots will not bend, kink or fold, nor will your false bottoms no longer seal. Other pots are likely better fitting on Lonnies original design as they have a wider bottom without the step but then you won't have the Blichmann false bottoms which are the best in the business IMO. Your brewhouse efficiency is almost too high and you will have to learn to adjust recipes accordingly.

Don't overthink it, it works great.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Sweet setup Irrenarzt! Totally jealous.

Off topic but pertaining to your last pic -- you got the Unbroken Chain that I was hoping for a few weeks ago in NH. We had a surprising Born Cross-Eyed, and nice Scarlet Fire among others. The boys are tight - smoking hot shows!

FYI - you can grab the audio for all the dates at: http://www.archive.org

Yeah I've got the SBD's coming from a friend who bought the whole tour. Thanks for the tip. I stream the archive.org aud's when I'm at work.

The unbroken > shakedown > short drum solo > king solomons marbles was fantastic.

 

[Ricand]

I'm just finishing up a double build with Ubermick. +1 on the gas beam, that gave us the biggest problems. If you aren't doing it out of pipe, seal the ends and pressure test the whole thing BEFORE welding it up to the frame. I had pin hole leaks into the cross members at the ends. I ended up cutting it off, capping the ends and then welding it back on. We shortened it a bit, since we are both shorter than Lonnie's armpit. We used 16 gauge stainless tubing for most of it and the 11 gauge Lonnie used for the gas beam. Ubermick has his set up for propane with banjo burners, mine is set up with impinged jet burners and natural gas. If you want the impinged jet burner, I got mine from http://www.topfoodservice.com (search jet burner) and they were ok. Trust me, all you need is the 6" version. The jet burners are easier to mount, but louder than the banjos. We haven't done a boil comparison yet.

 

[TrickyDick]

That's right, side to side only and it easily holds 3 full pots. The pots will not bend, kink or fold, nor will your false bottoms no longer seal. Other pots are likely better fitting on Lonnies original design as they have a wider bottom without the step but then you won't have the Blichmann false bottoms which are the best in the business IMO. Your brewhouse efficiency is almost too high and you will have to learn to adjust recipes accordingly.

Don't overthink it, it works great.

Thanks! Really means a lot for your advice on this project.

I was really admiring your hops sack holder! I had previously used the "hopstopper" but had problems losing siphon. I've switched to hop sacks loose in the boil, but I like this very much. Can you explain how you built this? Do you use brewing software and if so, which one and what utilization factor you use with your hop sack holder.

I like the ASCO conduit for the wiring. I went with Honeywell Valves and a spark ignition setup like Korndog uses. Hope I'm happy with the jet burners in combination with the Honeywells (or else there will be a new listing on the classifieds!)

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

The hop sack holder came out great. I'm actually in the process of making a second one that dips a bit further in the boil for a bit more utilization. It's pretty easy as it's just a 4" OD thinwall (~0.063") with three 1/4" stainless rods at 120 degrees welded in place. I have a buddy who welds and it literally took him 3 minutes to weld all three in place. You could also use all thread but I prefer the cleaner look of the smooth rods. There are washers welded onto the ends to keep it from falling off if it is accidentally bumped in the boil.

I used a hopstopper for about a year and it worked great for awhile but then it started getting jammed up with the higher pellet loads I've been utilizing lately so something had to be done and the hop sack has proven to be a better solution. I don't know the utilization as I'm only using the brewpal iphone app. I don't have a working PC laptop but if I did I'd use beersmith. I have a hackintosh mini 10V so the only thing I can run is Beer Tools or set up a VM with XP and run Beersmith that way but I haven't gotten around to it.

Your Honeywells should work fine if you can fit the igniters into the tab on the mini jet burners. I tapped mine for a bulkhead fitting (7/16-20 iirc) and they work great but it's a manual thing to get lit. Once lit, it kicksass.

 

[TrickyDick]

Burner Height Issues


Steel cut today, weld out rest of week.

Burners I got are 10 tips. What is the spacing between the bottoms of the kettle and the burners (from tips or from bottom of ring casting)?? Once installed, its going to be hard to change...


TD

 

[schristian619]

Can't help with your question, but where did you find 10 tip low pressure burners? All I've been able to find are the high pressure versions, or 23/32 tip low pressure.

 

[TrickyDick]

Bought the burners at shopperschoice.com

TD

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Burner Height Issues


Steel cut today, weld out rest of week.

Burners I got are 10 tips. What is the spacing between the bottoms of the kettle and the burners (from tips or from bottom of ring casting)?? Once installed, its going to be hard to change...


TD

If you are building from my plans, and you truly have the ten tip low pressure burners, then my tips are 2.25" from the bottom of the pot bottom.

If you are not sure, it would be a simple task to set up a burner on a test bed of some sort and fire one of those bad boys off and make sure...

 

[schristian619]

The ones at shopperschoice.com say they are for high pressure only. Do I need anything besides whats in the plans to use these? I would really prefer to use the jet burners over the banjos, if for no other reason than I like the look of them better, plus I don;t have to rig up a support.

 

[TrickyDick]

Can't really answer the question about the high pressure stuff. BUT when I ordered mine, there was a drop-down type dialog box that let me pick propane or NatGas. I forget the specifics right now, but I do believe my burners are intended to Low pressure Propane gas.

As far as the burner height, the answer is, YES I am using Lonnie's plans.

My friend, who runs the company that employs the welder, was thinking, that, since I ordered 2 of the control panel 12x24 sheets instead of a different sheet of steel to protect the pumps, that he could use a piece of "diamond plate" steel to cover the pumps and take the second Stainless sheet and make 4 inch wide strips that act as a stirrup for the burner, welded to the frame at the top, and upon which the burners rest.

A 4 inch drop plus the 2 inch thick tubular steel is a 6 inch drop. The burner tips are about 2.25 inches from the bottom of the cast "ring" of the burner. Add another 2.25 inches and that is 4.5 inches. Minus the the 6 inches means I need 1.5 inches of shim to boost the burners up a bit if they are really going to be resting on the support "stirrup". This does lend some flexibility in my design, particularly if I use flex tube to supply propane to the burners. I wonder if there is an easy way to weld a bracket on the SS "stirrups" running front to back so that I can more easily adjust burner height perhaps with a friction screw or something (like the neurosurgeons use to keep people's head in those shoulderpad HALO harnesses).

Anyway, probably making it more complicated that it needs to be. Thanks Lonnie for the 2.25 Spec!

One other issue I have is making the control panel. I often let the boil run unsupervised with a few drops of FermCap to prevent boil-overs , even under windy conditions (I have a flame shroud on my current burner). I'd like to keep this trend going with the brutus and the spark ignition modules will serve the same purpose, though NOT for the boil kettle. GOing to need a shroud for that burner... Anyway, I was thinking about how to seal the front flat SS control panel. I can only think of using automotive gasket material and applying a box to the back with screws....

I need to draw up a pencil & paper plan for the control panel for the shop to cut out the panels. Using the same basic Lonnie design, but using different temp controllers with larger cutouts. 45mm square holes for these....

Thanks for all the support on this site!~ Its been great!

TD

 

[Irrenarzt]

I measured 4" from the top of the burner ring to the pot bottom.

 

[Ricand]

Can't help with your question, but where did you find 10 tip low pressure burners? All I've been able to find are the high pressure versions, or 23/32 tip low pressure.

I bought mine at topfoodservices.com and ordered the pilot lights with it. They were around $5 and included the 1/4" compression elbow. The 10 jet ones aren't drilled and tapped for the pilot, but it's pretty easy to do. The guy there Jao gets really agitated when ordering and kinda yells at you that the pilots won't work. YOU NO LISTEN!!! NO TAPPED!! Stick to your guns.

 

[Irrenarzt]

He no love you long time?

 

[TrickyDick]

Rofl!


Td

 

[schristian619]

so are the ones from topfoodservice low pressure? I didn't see anythign that said high or low on the website.

 

[Ricand]

They don't say high or low pressure. They say Propane or Natural Gas. The Natural Gas ones are low pressure. Natural gas is around 7" of water or about 1/4 PSI.

 

[Ricand]

He no love you long time?

Haha, evidently not. I told him I ordered the 10 jet before and was able to drill and tap, then he wanted to know the previous order number so he could check. I didn't have it handy, I had drilled the 10 jet and put in a 1/4" nipple and drilled orifices in a cap. Finally I had to say, I will not return them and just send me what I want and I'll pay you. Asian restaurant supply in Manhattan. Not your usual surly customer service, it's more aggressive. OTOH, he really just wanted to make sure what I was ordering would work for me. He even suggested two other clamp on pilots that would work.

 

[Irrenarzt]

So in reality, he love you long time.

As for the earlier high pressure/low pressure business, I don't think it matters. I've found the high pressure ones work at low pressure and vice versa. NG and propane may be a different matter.

 

[Yambor44]

Actually I never completely welded the bottom welds on the upper surface! You could probably see that in the vids I just posted last night in the general beer... I always told myself that I would get around to it but by then I was brewing on it already! And the dang frame is plenty strong enough anyway... If you are concerned, drill a .250 hole on the bottom of each member on the upper heat surface.

Could you elaborate on this? Do I need to worry that my gas pipe is going to explode now?

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Could you elaborate on this? Do I need to worry that my gas pipe is going to explode now?

If it is a worry, and to me it is not, then it would be a simple task to drill a bleeder hole here or there. I guess if one were to read the keggle thread one might quit brewing all together. I do not subscribe to it myself... There are just too many frames from many manufactures out there welded this way...

But again, it is a very simple mod to do and I certainly would not try and talk anyone out of it...

 

[Yambor44]

If it is a worry, and to me it is not, then it would be a simple task to drill a bleeder hole here or there. I guess if one were to read the keggle thread one might quit brewing all together. I do not subscribe to it myself... There are just too many frames from many manufactures out there welded this way...

But again, it is a very simple mod to do and I certainly would not try and talk anyone out of it...

Lonnie, forgive my ignorance. Where would the holes need to be drilled? Not in the line itself????

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Lonnie, forgive my ignorance. Where would the holes need to be drilled? Not in the line itself????

Oh no... Sorry... Yes, if one were worried about the upper frame only being heated, then I would drill a small hole in the bottom of each member of the upper frame. The upper frame is the only part that sees heat really...

 

[Yambor44]

Oh no... Sorry... Yes, if one were worried about the upper frame only being heated, then I would drill a small hole in the bottom of each member of the upper frame. The upper frame is the only part that sees heat really...

Ahhh. Yes. I see. Mine might have this past weekend when I test fired my burner. The heat had no where to go with my heat shields all the way up to the kettle so it's back to the shop for some mods!

 

[TrickyDick]

Update-

Got my frame welded (finally) needs a few more things done to it. Planning to start wiring the control panel today.

Wanted to upload some pics but can't figure out how to...

 

[BoxingCatBrewing]

What hardware did they give you? I just ordered from them and had them cut from the plans I got from Lonnie.

 

[TrickyDick]

What hardware did they give you? I just ordered from them and had them cut from the plans I got from Lonnie.

Was this directed to me?

I did not get any hardware from anyone. I have a very good friend who owns a dealership for fleet vehicles and they have the tools and expertise to fabricate parts, weld, body work, painting, all sorts of stuff. My friend got a little better price on the square tubular steel than GWM from Lonnie's build, though I did end up getting the plates from them. I ended up modifying the original plans a bit, as I am sure you may as well.

I'd LOVE to post some photos, but I can't figure out how. The photo icon in the message editor asks for a URL. If I can figure it out, I may post them to my gallery.

I just got the stand delivered last night and have started wiring it up! Should be ready to rock and roll in a few more days (provided I can find the time to set it all up!)

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

OK upgraded my membership to lifetime. This forum is really the best homebrew forum I've found period!

Will post photos in a few minutes.

 

[BoxingCatBrewing]

Hello, Where did you get the probes you have running out of your HLT / MT
Thank you
Mark

 

[BoxingCatBrewing]

Sorry TD not for you, but do you have any pick of your system though?

 

[ThickHead]

Propane here hoss. My house doesn't have NG from the main so I'd have to pay a grip to have it plumbed in and I'm ok without it. If you have NG then I'd consider going that route as you wouldn't have to keep running to the propane shop for refills.

I'm using a 0-30 PSI acetylene regulator direct into my propane tanks and I'm running at about 1 PSI. You can kind of see the end of it in my pic below. I can run all 3 at once but you need to bump it up to about 2.5-3 PSI to do that. Two burners can run fine at 1 PSI with the ASCO valves turning on and off. Don't get the 11WC/0.4 PSI regulator from MoreBeer that Lonnie suggests as 1) it's overpriced from MB and 2) it's cannot do more than 1 burner at a time with the shopperschoice mini burners.

The steal your face sticker is a nice touch! Nice Jack Straw reference also....but mostly, nice rig!

 

[BoxingCatBrewing]

what model ASCO SS Valves do you recommend?

 

[TrickyDick]

ASCO valve question has a dedicated thread and its not a simple answer depending on your perspective.

I have a question about reversing the head on my march pump, now that they're bolted up, one has outlet pointing to floor and I need to change it . I assume you simply remove the screws, but I don't want to make and error and ruin it.

Gonna search the forum next but if anyone can get me started in the right direction, that would be helpful.

TD

 

[Sawdustguy]

The only modification I would make to the wonderful Brutus 10 design is to use ASCO Valves but to use Honeywell Standing Pilot valves for safety sake. The Honeywell VR8200A has adjustments for both Pilot as well as the Burner. It also includes a sensor which shuts off the gas if the pilot goes out. You will also need a Q314A pilot burner (cheap). These valves are for low pressure propane, so you will need a low pressure propane regulator after the propane tank. Otherwise the Brutus design is damn near perfect but we don't want to give Lonnie a swelled head.